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Live Reports From Kuwait, Baghdad, Pentagon
Aired March 20, 2003 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now from Atlanta is my colleague Aaron Brown. Aaron, we'll -- the whole thing will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone.
For those of you who are just joining us, you've now got a brief overview of where we are.
Nic Robertson is in Baghdad on the phone. Nic, give us a sense of two things now. This wall of antiaircraft fire that you talked about a minute ago, is that still going on?
And we're having a little trouble finding Nic's phone. Nic is in a hotel, and...
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): I'm here again.
BROWN: There we go. Nic...
ROBERTSON: Yes.
BROWN: ... are you able to still hear this wall, what you described as a wall of antiaircraft fire? Is it still going on?
ROBERTSON: It does seem to have subsided at the moment. It picked up about 10, 15 minutes ago towards the edge of the city we're looking towards. Now it seems to have subsided. But this -- we didn't seem to hear any impacts associated with that. Now it appears to have subsided again. We seem to be in another lull at this particular moment.
BROWN: OK. Nic, stay with me here for a second.
To the Pentagon, Barbara Starr has been developing some information -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the picture is very confused here. But what Nic just said about being in a lull at the moment might indicate that this entire campaign has not yet unfolded. As we have always understood it, the notion of shock and awe, of hundreds of missiles and bombs falling on Baghdad in a coordinated air and ground force campaign from the south, in that kind of scenario, there would be no lull in the bombing. There are indications at the moment from what Nic has seen in Baghdad, of course, that there is a lull. Now, we've talked to any number of military officials in the last several minutes, and they have told us even for them, the picture is confused at the moment. They have always said to us that we would, quote, "know it when we see it," that the war is fully under way, that we would have no questions.
And we are getting indications, if we are uncertain, if we have questions about it, perhaps the war is not fully underway. This may simply be another phase in the so-called preparation of the battlefield. The goal had always been, of course, to take out Iraqi leadership targets in Baghdad, give Saddam Hussein and his closest advisers nowhere to run, Aaron.
BROWN: Do you have any sense that the plan itself, for any reason, or any reason you can tell us, has changed, or are you -- well, no, not or anything. Do you have any sense...
STARR: Right.
BROWN: ... that the plan has changed?
STARR: Well, let's tell people the little that we do know here, which is administration officials, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, for one, says there is still some debate about whether that was Saddam Hussein himself on the tape. The intelligence community still struggling with this notion.
So then we asked the question, if you thought, in the administration, that Saddam Hussein was dead, would the plan have changed? Officials say not very clear. Don't jump to that assumption. Not at all clear at the moment that the plan is being changed.
But Aaron, events are unfolding very quickly. There's always that old saying, No plan survives first contact with the enemy. And we are seeing a very fluid environment.
BROWN: It is that. Barbara, thank you. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
Marines have moved now into -- from northern Iraq -- rather, from northern Kuwait into southern Iraq. That too is being described as preparation for the battle.
Wolf Blitzer is in Kuwait and has been reporting from there. Wolf, good afternoon to you.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you also, Aaron.
The First Marine Expeditionary Force, there are about 50,000 U.S. Marines. They've been training in the northern part of Kuwait, getting ready to move into the southern part of Iraq. They've been backed up by a heavy contingent of British ground forces as well. They're working very, very closely together. Our Barbara Starr reporting only within the past half-hour or so that elements of the First Marine Expeditionary Force have now moved into southern Iraq, clearly a significant development, coming, as it does, amidst this second day of bombardment, a limited Tomahawk cruise missile strike last night, followed today by these strikes in Baghdad.
Once again, we only are seeing what's happening in Baghdad. That's where we have a reporter on the scene, our Nic Robertson. That's also where we have TV cameras that can show us what's going on. Iraq, a huge country.
We don't know if there are other strikes unfolding elsewhere around the country, although Barbara Starr suggesting that perhaps this is not the shock and awe full-scale campaign, air campaign, that we had anticipated for some time. Conflicting information coming along on that.
Here in Kuwait, I have to tell you, this has been a difficult day for a lot of the U.S. troops, especially up in the northern part of the country, as they've been forced on several occasions to hear those sirens and go into their full chemical and biological gear, including putting on the gas masks, as they braced for Iraq rocket fire, missiles coming in.
And it was an eerie picture, and a lot of U.S. troops up in the north certainly scared as the -- as they were forced to undertake this worst-case scenario kind of equipment.
They had drilled for it, they had worked on it for months and months and months. But when it actually happens in a potential battlefield environment, obviously, people get a lot more nervous, they get a lot more scared.
In Kuwait City itself, which is, what, 40, 50, 60 miles further south, there were some sirens that went off, false alarms, nothing serious happening here in the Kuwaiti capital, although there's a sense, there's a sense that the U.S. military certainly does not want to wait for the Iraqis to get lucky.
And if, in fact, the Marines are now moving into southern Iraq, they'll presumably be backed up by a lot of other U.S. forces who might be in a position to make sure the Iraqis won't be able to launch Scuds, frogs (ph), other kind of short-range missiles or artillery barrages into any part of Kuwait.
Certainly the Kuwaiti government is counting on the U.S. military to protect the people who live here in Kuwait, and there are tens of thousands, indeed, more than 150,000 U.S. and British forces already stationed here in Kuwait, just waiting for the order to move into Iraq.
On the whole, Aaron, I have to tell you, it's been a very, very tense day here. But it looks like there's movement on the military front, and that's going to make a lot of Kuwaitis much more relieved.
BROWN: It's an odd thing, isn't it, that they have been, perhaps more than almost anyone, waiting, anticipating, worrying. But as it unfolds, they will in many respects be the most relieved.
Wolf, we'll be back to you shortly.
Kyra Phillips is aboard the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," an aircraft carrier at sea.
Kyra, what -- are you seeing planes taking off? Do we have any idea of what their mission is right now?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of interesting things happening now, right now, Aaron. Actually the last 12 aircraft just landed here on the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," finishing up their missions for the night.
And, you know, I've been listening to the coverage for the past couple of hours. I've been listening to what the generals have been saying, I've been listening to the conversation among all of you, and even Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
And I have to tell you, it's all making sense, what you are saying and what I am hearing here. A number of phrases. One is operational deception. It's a phrase that I'm hearing a lot. And the point is to basically confuse a potential enemy. We think that one thing may happen. Within minutes, that plan changes.
And that is what's happening here on the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," and out here in the Persian Gulf. A plan may be in place. You may think that certain flights are going out at a certain time. But then within minutes, that changes, of course, all with the hope to not lay out an exact battle plan.
Something else that I heard the general say is that was usually the Tomahawk and cruise missiles, those will go off first, and then within minutes the strike fighters will come in and help complete the mission. That's the same talk that's been going on here. That seems like standard operating procedure.
I can tell you, all morning, all day and all night, and right now, are closed doors, top-secret briefs in the intel centers, in the squadron ready rooms. I'm constantly making calls and checking in with various sources on the ship, and they're telling me, I just don't know, I thought we had the plan, but it's changing moment by moment.
Now, that's where the training comes in. They've been training for these type of scenarios, and so they're ready to go at a moment's notice. But even a plan that has been set forth, for example, today, today turned out to be quite different than what I was told was going to happen today.
So we learn by the second, Aaron.
BROWN: Kyra, we are all learning by the second. Now, just before you get away from me, I gather that the mood right now on that carrier is considerably different than the mood on that carrier 24 hours ago. PHILLIPS: I've got to tell you, they've been out here for eight months, eight months yesterday, I believe it was, a couple months longer than their six-month cruise. I got to tell you, everybody was up watching the president of the United States make his speech.
And when he said that Operation Iraqi Freedom was in order, in a -- there was a sigh of relief. I have to tell you, in one way that, OK, here we go, this is why we're out here, this is what we've trained to do. Let's go.
All of a sudden, there was a boost in morale, and the energy around here was pretty incredible. And that hasn't stopped. The adrenaline is still flowing. And planes continue to come back all day today. They continue to come back without bombs.
And I'll tell you, that wasn't happening a few days ago, Aaron.
BROWN: Kyra, thank you. Kyra Phillips.
You can imagine the adrenaline that is coursing through the veins of these pilots as they take off from these aircraft carriers. These carriers, the "Lincoln" and others, are so critical to how this battle will ultimately unfold -- Wolf.
BLITZER: There are several U.S. aircraft carriers, Aaron, in the region, five to be specific, three in the Persian Gulf, two in the eastern Mediterranean, that have been involved in this operation so far.
I want to show our viewers some pictures that were taken by videophone aboard the U.S.S. "Constellation," which is another aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. And if we can put those pictures up, what our viewers will see, and we'll break away from these live pictures of Baghdad that we've been looking at, you'll see these planes taking off from the deck of the U.S.S. "Constellation," getting ready for battle, for war, if you will.
F-14s, F-and-A -- A-18s, these are the kind of planes that have take -- that take off from the aircraft carriers and pursue -- in pursue Iraqi targets. Over the past many years, they've been bombing Iraqi targets in the southern no-fly zone. That has all changed now with the start of this war. They'll be bombing Iraqi targets elsewhere.
Here you see one of the jets taking off from the U.S.S. "Constellation," a videophone picture taken earlier.
We're looking now, we're back at the live pictures. We're taking a look at what's happening in Baghdad, the Iraqi capital. You see in the bottom right-hand side of your screen, you see a fire that continues to -- that continues to -- to blaze over there. One of the buildings, presumably, that's still on fire as a result of the U.S. bombardment within the past couple hours of downtown Baghdad, a couple three key locations, we're told.
Our Nic Robertson on the scene watching this, trying to better understand what's going on the streets downtown Baghdad.
Our senior White House correspondent, John King, has got some more information. He's joining us now live -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is a White House that is extraordinarily reluctant to give us any operational details. So we are waiting to hear from President Bush. He is in a meeting this hour with his cabinet, Mr. Bush trying to deliver the message to the American people that the work of the government goes on even as we watch what goes on in day two of the war effort.
We will hear from President Bush those remarks about 45 minutes away, I believe. We expect the president to give a statement on his assessment of the battle so far, but we do not expect the president to take any questions.
As for what we are seeing in the skies over Baghdad, White House officials are nearly religious, in the sense of referring all questions about operational details to the Pentagon.
They say that will be their practice throughout, although we are hearing from senior administration officials that the president was told this morning, when Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, General Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and others were here for his meeting, that the president was told this morning that things would escalate fairly quickly, in the words of one senior official.
Another official telling CNN there is a significant escalation under way in and around Baghdad and elsewhere, but this official refusing to characterize the operation any further or say whether the major full thrust is now under way.
Yet, in a sign that perhaps that is not the case, this official said some of the most major developments might take, quote, "a day or so, maybe two," to unfold, Wolf.
BLITZER: What's the context of the president's public remarks that we're waiting for, John? What's the format? What, what's, what's -- why is he going out to speak?
KING: Well, he -- obviously, the president wants to speak to the American people that significant military action is under way. He did speak from the Oval Office last night. One of the messages the president is trying to convey is that the work of the government here at home goes on even as he is the commander in chief directing the military operation overseas.
We are told to expect to hear from the president not every day as this goes on, but significantly, perhaps almost once a day, anyway.
And Wolf, we should also note, we were told that while we wait to hear from the president here at the White House, there is another development over at the Treasury Department later this afternoon, late in the 3:00 hour. Details coming into us right now, but we are told even as we watch the war being prosecuted in Iraq, the Bush administration will announce some steps designed to freeze the financial assets of Saddam Hussein.
We're still trying to pull together the details, but there is a military front to this war, and we are told the Bush administration preparing to make an announcement on the financial front. Some effort being made apparently around the world to freeze the assets of Saddam Hussein, Wolf.
BLITZER: And speaking about money, at some point, the administration in the White House is going to have to seek what they call a supplemental budget request to get more money to pay for all of this. Any indication, John, when that might happen, and how much money the administration is talking about?
KING: Ari Fleischer refused to tell us today. He said that was still a work in progress. But senior sources have been telling us that the administration could send that up to Congress as early as next week. We are told that the cost of the war and its immediate aftermath, the estimate right now is somewhere in the area of $75 billion to $80 billion. That includes the war effort, some humanitarian effort, some initial reconstruction effort.
But we also are told that bill, one of the reasons that bill is still a work in progress is they want to see how the first day or so of the operation unfolds. They also are assessing the additional costs of securing the home front. We are on orange alert here in the United States, and more homeland security money will be included in that emergency budget request as well, could come early next week, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, John King at the White House. We'll be checking back with you as soon as the president speaks, obviously, we'll want to see that, our viewers will want to see that in the United States, indeed around the world.
Nic Robertson is still in Baghdad. He's watching these live pictures as we are watching them as well, dramatic developments over the past couple hours, significant bombing runs by U.S., by U.S. forces.
Nic, what are you seeing and hearing right now?
ROBERTSON: Wolf, we're just hearing the all-clear siren, or exactly what sounds like the all-clear siren, going off across the city, that long continuous tone coming from a number of locations around the city.
That would be now perhaps about two and a half hours, almost, since the air-raid siren initially went off, which was followed fairly soon after by the heavy antiaircraft gunfire, those impacts of what were either bombs or missiles impacting in a number of locations here.
That is the all-clear siren going. There has been much speculation about the level of command and control, the level of knowledge of Iraq's antiaircraft gun batteries, the level of Iraq's air defensive capabilities and their knowledge to be forewarned of an imminent attack. If their knowledge is good as it has seemed to be -- that is, before each attack, the warning has gone off. That was the all-clear, perhaps an indication that they feel that their skies are safer this time, that their buildings are now safe from any imminent threat.
It is a city on edge, but very strangely, Wolf, as you can see from your pictures, while there are buildings burning, the lights of the city are on. This is a city that is under attack at night from the air, yet the lights of the city remain on, the streetlights, many of the building lights. It is a bright city tonight. It is a clearly illuminated city at this time, Wolf.
BLITZER: And before I let you go, Nic, if we could just go back 24 hours, interesting how the -- this game, in effect, that's been played by the U.S. and Iraq, the U.S. goes ahead and launches Tomahawk cruise missiles, hoping to kill, destroy Iraqi leadership positions, command and control. They were hoping, of course, to get the Iraqi leader himself, Saddam Hussein.
That's quickly followed by a videotape presentation on Iraqi television by Saddam Hussein, more statements by other Iraqi leaders, pictures of Saddam Hussein meeting with his top leaders or within the past few hours. And that, in turn, is now followed by a U.S. second wave of bombardment, which is simultaneously followed by U.S. Marines moving into southern Iraq.
If prelude is what we can expect to -- down the road, presumably the next step now, if there is a lull, Nic, would be some sort of response from the Iraqi leadership.
ROBERTSON: That's entirely possible. It's very interesting, particularly when we listened to Barbara Starr's report from the Pentagon. The Pentagon, of course, had been briefing that when the war gets going properly, it will -- the bombing will shock and awe the population. Clearly, that has not yet happened here in this city. The psychological advantage, however, of preparing a city, preparing Iraqi officials, preparing the people and telling them that when it starts, it will be terrible.
But it has started in a smaller fashion, and it has started in a small way. People -- many people here must be literally living on the edge, knowing that there has been this threat of shock and awe, aware that the bombing has started, that it has begun. But this shock and awe, this moment that they were told to expect when everything started, they were told to expect a huge bombardment.
It hasn't happened yet. They know that this threat still lurks out there. They know it is coming at some point. The psychological impact must be quite significant on many people of this city at this time. It has begun in a small way. Not as they were told, but they know and they believe likely that the full force, as outlined by the Pentagon, yet to arrive here, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thanks very much.
And Aaron, as I throw it back to you, I guess we're going to wait the next move, now, assuming this lull continues in terms of bombardment. The next step will be President Bush will be speaking within the hour. We'll, of course, have live coverage of that, and we'll stand by to see what, if anything, we hear from the Iraqi leadership, Aaron.
BROWN: I think it's -- just to pick up on a point you were talking about, both governments in this case, the Iraqi government and the U.S. government, making a point of showing their leaders, showing them to their populations, showing them to the international viewing audiences. This is all being carried around the world, for somewhat different reasons, of course.
But they are making a point of putting on television the leadership of the countries so that the world knows what -- where these two governments are at this moment as this starts to unfold in this kind of raggedy way that it's unfolded. Certainly not at all as we expected.
Christiane Amanpour in Kuwait City -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, just a couple of items to report. The Kuwait news agency is reporting that coalition forces have taken Umkasa, which is a border town just across the Kuwait border inside Iraq. It's also on a port. It's in also an area of population.
Now, I immediately called a British military spokesman, and they will not confirm that for us. They will just say that, as we've already been reporting, that British and U.S. forces have, in fact, launched forward, have crossed over into southern Iraq, as we've already been reporting, but will not confirm that at least one immediate border town has fallen.
Also, to expand a little bit on some of those incoming artillery that we've been reporting all day, a British military spokesman saying that about 10 of those Iraqi missiles, fired from Iraqi positions in southern Iraq onto what he calls coalition forces, in other words, the area in which both U.S. and British forces are stationed, he cannot speak from his vantage point for the rest of the staging point of the U.S. forces, but about 10 missiles have come in. None have struck the base areas where the forces are amassed, and there has been no casualties.
But this spokesman tells us that some of those were Scuds. I pressed him for any more information on that, and he could not give us any further information, other than some of those were Scuds, he said.
We've been briefed rather heavily over the last couple of days. And perhaps that's what's showing in this, as you say, sort of small- scale -- at least relatively small-scale start to this war, that what they wanted to do was not to destroy unnecessarily Iraqi soldiers or Iraqi civilians.
They want to keep giving messages to the leadership to try to smoke them out, if you like -- sorry to use that term -- but to try to put pressure on the Iraqi leadership, at least in the initial stages, to hope that that will cause some kind of reflection and perhaps surrender, if you like, of the leadership.
They're very concerned, they tell us, about preserving as much infrastructure, as much of the regular Iraqi forces, and, of course, sparing the civilians insofar as they can. So it's almost a contradiction in terms in terms of what we're being briefed, that it is going to be, we've been told for so many weeks and months, this massive aerial bombardment.
But on the other hand, they also want to go soft for fear of doing too much damage to civilians and other kinds of infrastructure if they don't have to do that. Back to you, Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, how different have the last 24 hours been than the first 24 hours of the first Gulf War?
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, it's different, because in the first Gulf War, there was a massive aerial bombardment. You saw those pictures from Baghdad. And it lasted for five weeks, let's not forget that it was a five-week campaign with heavy targeting around Baghdad, around other major military targets, and, indeed, other cities.
But, of course, massive bombardment inside Kuwait, where the Iraqi forces were arrayed, just before the Saudi border, in other words, southern Kuwait.
So it took an enormous amount of time by all sorts of aircraft and different bombing raids to soften up, quote, "the environment" before the land forces breached the border between Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and then liberated Kuwait.
And if you remember, the ground offensive was just 100 days. So that was a very different picture than what we're seeing right now.
BROWN: As we can see -- stay with us here. We can see these pictures recorded now, pictures of buildings that were hit in these attacks in Baghdad earlier, now several hours earlier. As you can see, it was dark at the time.
There are stationary cameras set up in a number of locations around Baghdad. As long as they are operational, we'll be able to take pictures from them, put them on the air. At some point, we will probably lose them. But we haven't lost them yet, thankfully.
It is the best window we have. But in truth, and this was mentioned earlier, what we all are getting, what you are getting, what we are getting, and in some respects all we have, is a very narrow view of what is going on.
There are parts of the country we simply are not able to report from. We are able to report from Baghdad. We have a pretty good feel of where these three missiles hit or these three strikes hit. There were certainly more than three missiles, extraordinary amount of antiaircraft fire going on.
But what may be going on in the outlying areas, outside of the city, in other parts of the country, particularly in the south, where we know the Marines have crossed the border, is much more difficult to explain at this point. We just don't have the eyes for it.
Christiane, is there in Kuwait a concern now that they are going to get hit? Three weeks ago when we -- four weeks ago, I guess, now, when we were there, that was the talk of Kuwait, whether or not the Iraqis would try and hit them with chemical weapons as a retaliatory measure.
AMANPOUR: Well, as our reporters and anchors here in Kuwait have been reporting to you all day, there have been many, many air raid sirens today. and there have been many occasions, certainly, in the last 12 hours, where people have gone down to bomb shelters and basements, not only around the city, but at this hotel as well.
And there has been that fear. That has not yet materialized, and it is not yet materialized at the front, either. Asking the spokespeople up there, What is the incoming from Iraq? they have said that it is conventional so far.
And although people up there, both journalists and, of course, the troops up there, have donned their chemical protective gear, chemical and biological protective gear, and I've been told on occasion sitting for seven hours in trenches completely suited up to ward off the worst possible calamity, that has not yet happened.
And so far, what's been incoming is conventional.
BROWN: Christiane, thank you.
As we look at these pictures of Baghdad, and going back to something Nic Robertson reported a bit ago, the lights are still on. So one of the things we know that has not happened is that the United States forces have not yet attempted to or succeeded in -- but I think attempted to is most certainly correct here -- take out the electrical grid, try and take out the electrical grid in the city.
That is a complicated thing, if you can take the electricity away. At this point, they have not done that.
Miles O'Brien has been working on, I gather, sort of laying out here, where we believe the military campaign is moving at this point -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, let's talk broadly about that first, and then we want to give you some explainers as to some of these pictures you're seeing, give you some sense of what's going on.
Our expert through all this is retired major general Don Shepperd with the U.S. Air Force.
Good to have you, General Shepperd.
Big picture here, as you look at some of the -- what's arrayed against Iraq, in very simple representation, not entirely accurate, though, the big picture is that most of what's happening is coming up sort of this way, from the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. Is that accurate to say, first of all?
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Persian Gulf, Red Sea, and also on land in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Gulf. Basically, you've got carriers in the Mediterranean. We don't know if there's any carriers in the Red Sea or not, but the airplanes can come across Israel and Jordan or go down across Saudi Arabia. The aircraft off the carriers in the Persian Gulf can come this way.
We also have B-52 bombers coming from the United Kingdom, and also Diego Garcia and B-2s are reportedly coming from Diego Garcia, as well as Tomahawk missiles coming from ships in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.
O'BRIEN: And no clear indication at this juncture as to what we're seeing, as to what platforms, which is -- would be the military term, are being used right at the moment?
SHEPPERD: No, but a good guess is Tomahawk missiles and Stealth airplanes is what you're seeing in downtown Baghdad.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's take a look at some of this antiaircraft fire that we've been watching. We just want to explain to folks exactly what they're seeing as they see these little flashes there. What are they -- what do those flashes all mean, Don Shepperd? Those are not the result of any U.S. weapons, correct?
SHEPPERD: No. It's Iraqi antiaircraft weapons. And what you see, first of all, is flashes on the ground. That's the muzzle fire. Then for every streak of light you see up there, which is a tracer, there are six other rounds between tracers. It's a one-to-seven tracer ratio. So when you see tracers, you're seeing one-seventh of what's fired. The little flashes up there, when the round gets to the end of its time of flight, it blows up in the air, so (UNINTELLIGIBLE) round doesn't come down and impact on the ground and hit your own country.
O'BRIEN: So it makes tiny little pieces...
SHEPPERD: Tiny pieces.
O'BRIEN: ... when they fall to the ground.
All right, let's take it, let's talk a little bit about radar suppression, knocking out a radar system, as we look at some animation we put together here. We'll give you a sense of how this all plays out. First of all, we take you down to -- these are SA-2 surface-to- air missiles, Soviet air missiles commonly used in the Iraqi army.
SHEPPERD: Yes, all the way from the Vietnam era, but much improved, and a lot of improvements to them made to them by the Iraqis. It's the SA-2, it's on guideline transporters there. They're set up and ready to fire. They need to be tied to a radar. Now, this is a fansong (ph) radar...
O'BRIEN: Fansong. SHEPPERD: Fansong. Basically, it's an acquisition and tracking radar. It tracks the -- gives more information to the control center that fires the missiles. And the airplane is coming inbound now. And what we want to do is screw this up. So the next thing we do is, we send in a jamming aircraft like the EA6-B Prowler.
O'BRIEN: All right, EA6-B, right there, that's a carrier-based aircraft, and that just plays havoc with radar systems, right?
SHEPPERD: Carrier based, flown by combined air, Air Force and Navy crews. And what that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) airplane does is work against the radar site itself, the screens of the operator. Instead of one target up there, he's got multiple targets, has to decide where his target went, very difficult.
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Aired March 20, 2003 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now from Atlanta is my colleague Aaron Brown. Aaron, we'll -- the whole thing will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Paula, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone.
For those of you who are just joining us, you've now got a brief overview of where we are.
Nic Robertson is in Baghdad on the phone. Nic, give us a sense of two things now. This wall of antiaircraft fire that you talked about a minute ago, is that still going on?
And we're having a little trouble finding Nic's phone. Nic is in a hotel, and...
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): I'm here again.
BROWN: There we go. Nic...
ROBERTSON: Yes.
BROWN: ... are you able to still hear this wall, what you described as a wall of antiaircraft fire? Is it still going on?
ROBERTSON: It does seem to have subsided at the moment. It picked up about 10, 15 minutes ago towards the edge of the city we're looking towards. Now it seems to have subsided. But this -- we didn't seem to hear any impacts associated with that. Now it appears to have subsided again. We seem to be in another lull at this particular moment.
BROWN: OK. Nic, stay with me here for a second.
To the Pentagon, Barbara Starr has been developing some information -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the picture is very confused here. But what Nic just said about being in a lull at the moment might indicate that this entire campaign has not yet unfolded. As we have always understood it, the notion of shock and awe, of hundreds of missiles and bombs falling on Baghdad in a coordinated air and ground force campaign from the south, in that kind of scenario, there would be no lull in the bombing. There are indications at the moment from what Nic has seen in Baghdad, of course, that there is a lull. Now, we've talked to any number of military officials in the last several minutes, and they have told us even for them, the picture is confused at the moment. They have always said to us that we would, quote, "know it when we see it," that the war is fully under way, that we would have no questions.
And we are getting indications, if we are uncertain, if we have questions about it, perhaps the war is not fully underway. This may simply be another phase in the so-called preparation of the battlefield. The goal had always been, of course, to take out Iraqi leadership targets in Baghdad, give Saddam Hussein and his closest advisers nowhere to run, Aaron.
BROWN: Do you have any sense that the plan itself, for any reason, or any reason you can tell us, has changed, or are you -- well, no, not or anything. Do you have any sense...
STARR: Right.
BROWN: ... that the plan has changed?
STARR: Well, let's tell people the little that we do know here, which is administration officials, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, for one, says there is still some debate about whether that was Saddam Hussein himself on the tape. The intelligence community still struggling with this notion.
So then we asked the question, if you thought, in the administration, that Saddam Hussein was dead, would the plan have changed? Officials say not very clear. Don't jump to that assumption. Not at all clear at the moment that the plan is being changed.
But Aaron, events are unfolding very quickly. There's always that old saying, No plan survives first contact with the enemy. And we are seeing a very fluid environment.
BROWN: It is that. Barbara, thank you. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
Marines have moved now into -- from northern Iraq -- rather, from northern Kuwait into southern Iraq. That too is being described as preparation for the battle.
Wolf Blitzer is in Kuwait and has been reporting from there. Wolf, good afternoon to you.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you also, Aaron.
The First Marine Expeditionary Force, there are about 50,000 U.S. Marines. They've been training in the northern part of Kuwait, getting ready to move into the southern part of Iraq. They've been backed up by a heavy contingent of British ground forces as well. They're working very, very closely together. Our Barbara Starr reporting only within the past half-hour or so that elements of the First Marine Expeditionary Force have now moved into southern Iraq, clearly a significant development, coming, as it does, amidst this second day of bombardment, a limited Tomahawk cruise missile strike last night, followed today by these strikes in Baghdad.
Once again, we only are seeing what's happening in Baghdad. That's where we have a reporter on the scene, our Nic Robertson. That's also where we have TV cameras that can show us what's going on. Iraq, a huge country.
We don't know if there are other strikes unfolding elsewhere around the country, although Barbara Starr suggesting that perhaps this is not the shock and awe full-scale campaign, air campaign, that we had anticipated for some time. Conflicting information coming along on that.
Here in Kuwait, I have to tell you, this has been a difficult day for a lot of the U.S. troops, especially up in the northern part of the country, as they've been forced on several occasions to hear those sirens and go into their full chemical and biological gear, including putting on the gas masks, as they braced for Iraq rocket fire, missiles coming in.
And it was an eerie picture, and a lot of U.S. troops up in the north certainly scared as the -- as they were forced to undertake this worst-case scenario kind of equipment.
They had drilled for it, they had worked on it for months and months and months. But when it actually happens in a potential battlefield environment, obviously, people get a lot more nervous, they get a lot more scared.
In Kuwait City itself, which is, what, 40, 50, 60 miles further south, there were some sirens that went off, false alarms, nothing serious happening here in the Kuwaiti capital, although there's a sense, there's a sense that the U.S. military certainly does not want to wait for the Iraqis to get lucky.
And if, in fact, the Marines are now moving into southern Iraq, they'll presumably be backed up by a lot of other U.S. forces who might be in a position to make sure the Iraqis won't be able to launch Scuds, frogs (ph), other kind of short-range missiles or artillery barrages into any part of Kuwait.
Certainly the Kuwaiti government is counting on the U.S. military to protect the people who live here in Kuwait, and there are tens of thousands, indeed, more than 150,000 U.S. and British forces already stationed here in Kuwait, just waiting for the order to move into Iraq.
On the whole, Aaron, I have to tell you, it's been a very, very tense day here. But it looks like there's movement on the military front, and that's going to make a lot of Kuwaitis much more relieved.
BROWN: It's an odd thing, isn't it, that they have been, perhaps more than almost anyone, waiting, anticipating, worrying. But as it unfolds, they will in many respects be the most relieved.
Wolf, we'll be back to you shortly.
Kyra Phillips is aboard the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," an aircraft carrier at sea.
Kyra, what -- are you seeing planes taking off? Do we have any idea of what their mission is right now?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of interesting things happening now, right now, Aaron. Actually the last 12 aircraft just landed here on the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," finishing up their missions for the night.
And, you know, I've been listening to the coverage for the past couple of hours. I've been listening to what the generals have been saying, I've been listening to the conversation among all of you, and even Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
And I have to tell you, it's all making sense, what you are saying and what I am hearing here. A number of phrases. One is operational deception. It's a phrase that I'm hearing a lot. And the point is to basically confuse a potential enemy. We think that one thing may happen. Within minutes, that plan changes.
And that is what's happening here on the U.S.S. "Abraham Lincoln," and out here in the Persian Gulf. A plan may be in place. You may think that certain flights are going out at a certain time. But then within minutes, that changes, of course, all with the hope to not lay out an exact battle plan.
Something else that I heard the general say is that was usually the Tomahawk and cruise missiles, those will go off first, and then within minutes the strike fighters will come in and help complete the mission. That's the same talk that's been going on here. That seems like standard operating procedure.
I can tell you, all morning, all day and all night, and right now, are closed doors, top-secret briefs in the intel centers, in the squadron ready rooms. I'm constantly making calls and checking in with various sources on the ship, and they're telling me, I just don't know, I thought we had the plan, but it's changing moment by moment.
Now, that's where the training comes in. They've been training for these type of scenarios, and so they're ready to go at a moment's notice. But even a plan that has been set forth, for example, today, today turned out to be quite different than what I was told was going to happen today.
So we learn by the second, Aaron.
BROWN: Kyra, we are all learning by the second. Now, just before you get away from me, I gather that the mood right now on that carrier is considerably different than the mood on that carrier 24 hours ago. PHILLIPS: I've got to tell you, they've been out here for eight months, eight months yesterday, I believe it was, a couple months longer than their six-month cruise. I got to tell you, everybody was up watching the president of the United States make his speech.
And when he said that Operation Iraqi Freedom was in order, in a -- there was a sigh of relief. I have to tell you, in one way that, OK, here we go, this is why we're out here, this is what we've trained to do. Let's go.
All of a sudden, there was a boost in morale, and the energy around here was pretty incredible. And that hasn't stopped. The adrenaline is still flowing. And planes continue to come back all day today. They continue to come back without bombs.
And I'll tell you, that wasn't happening a few days ago, Aaron.
BROWN: Kyra, thank you. Kyra Phillips.
You can imagine the adrenaline that is coursing through the veins of these pilots as they take off from these aircraft carriers. These carriers, the "Lincoln" and others, are so critical to how this battle will ultimately unfold -- Wolf.
BLITZER: There are several U.S. aircraft carriers, Aaron, in the region, five to be specific, three in the Persian Gulf, two in the eastern Mediterranean, that have been involved in this operation so far.
I want to show our viewers some pictures that were taken by videophone aboard the U.S.S. "Constellation," which is another aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. And if we can put those pictures up, what our viewers will see, and we'll break away from these live pictures of Baghdad that we've been looking at, you'll see these planes taking off from the deck of the U.S.S. "Constellation," getting ready for battle, for war, if you will.
F-14s, F-and-A -- A-18s, these are the kind of planes that have take -- that take off from the aircraft carriers and pursue -- in pursue Iraqi targets. Over the past many years, they've been bombing Iraqi targets in the southern no-fly zone. That has all changed now with the start of this war. They'll be bombing Iraqi targets elsewhere.
Here you see one of the jets taking off from the U.S.S. "Constellation," a videophone picture taken earlier.
We're looking now, we're back at the live pictures. We're taking a look at what's happening in Baghdad, the Iraqi capital. You see in the bottom right-hand side of your screen, you see a fire that continues to -- that continues to -- to blaze over there. One of the buildings, presumably, that's still on fire as a result of the U.S. bombardment within the past couple hours of downtown Baghdad, a couple three key locations, we're told.
Our Nic Robertson on the scene watching this, trying to better understand what's going on the streets downtown Baghdad.
Our senior White House correspondent, John King, has got some more information. He's joining us now live -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is a White House that is extraordinarily reluctant to give us any operational details. So we are waiting to hear from President Bush. He is in a meeting this hour with his cabinet, Mr. Bush trying to deliver the message to the American people that the work of the government goes on even as we watch what goes on in day two of the war effort.
We will hear from President Bush those remarks about 45 minutes away, I believe. We expect the president to give a statement on his assessment of the battle so far, but we do not expect the president to take any questions.
As for what we are seeing in the skies over Baghdad, White House officials are nearly religious, in the sense of referring all questions about operational details to the Pentagon.
They say that will be their practice throughout, although we are hearing from senior administration officials that the president was told this morning, when Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, General Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and others were here for his meeting, that the president was told this morning that things would escalate fairly quickly, in the words of one senior official.
Another official telling CNN there is a significant escalation under way in and around Baghdad and elsewhere, but this official refusing to characterize the operation any further or say whether the major full thrust is now under way.
Yet, in a sign that perhaps that is not the case, this official said some of the most major developments might take, quote, "a day or so, maybe two," to unfold, Wolf.
BLITZER: What's the context of the president's public remarks that we're waiting for, John? What's the format? What, what's, what's -- why is he going out to speak?
KING: Well, he -- obviously, the president wants to speak to the American people that significant military action is under way. He did speak from the Oval Office last night. One of the messages the president is trying to convey is that the work of the government here at home goes on even as he is the commander in chief directing the military operation overseas.
We are told to expect to hear from the president not every day as this goes on, but significantly, perhaps almost once a day, anyway.
And Wolf, we should also note, we were told that while we wait to hear from the president here at the White House, there is another development over at the Treasury Department later this afternoon, late in the 3:00 hour. Details coming into us right now, but we are told even as we watch the war being prosecuted in Iraq, the Bush administration will announce some steps designed to freeze the financial assets of Saddam Hussein.
We're still trying to pull together the details, but there is a military front to this war, and we are told the Bush administration preparing to make an announcement on the financial front. Some effort being made apparently around the world to freeze the assets of Saddam Hussein, Wolf.
BLITZER: And speaking about money, at some point, the administration in the White House is going to have to seek what they call a supplemental budget request to get more money to pay for all of this. Any indication, John, when that might happen, and how much money the administration is talking about?
KING: Ari Fleischer refused to tell us today. He said that was still a work in progress. But senior sources have been telling us that the administration could send that up to Congress as early as next week. We are told that the cost of the war and its immediate aftermath, the estimate right now is somewhere in the area of $75 billion to $80 billion. That includes the war effort, some humanitarian effort, some initial reconstruction effort.
But we also are told that bill, one of the reasons that bill is still a work in progress is they want to see how the first day or so of the operation unfolds. They also are assessing the additional costs of securing the home front. We are on orange alert here in the United States, and more homeland security money will be included in that emergency budget request as well, could come early next week, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, John King at the White House. We'll be checking back with you as soon as the president speaks, obviously, we'll want to see that, our viewers will want to see that in the United States, indeed around the world.
Nic Robertson is still in Baghdad. He's watching these live pictures as we are watching them as well, dramatic developments over the past couple hours, significant bombing runs by U.S., by U.S. forces.
Nic, what are you seeing and hearing right now?
ROBERTSON: Wolf, we're just hearing the all-clear siren, or exactly what sounds like the all-clear siren, going off across the city, that long continuous tone coming from a number of locations around the city.
That would be now perhaps about two and a half hours, almost, since the air-raid siren initially went off, which was followed fairly soon after by the heavy antiaircraft gunfire, those impacts of what were either bombs or missiles impacting in a number of locations here.
That is the all-clear siren going. There has been much speculation about the level of command and control, the level of knowledge of Iraq's antiaircraft gun batteries, the level of Iraq's air defensive capabilities and their knowledge to be forewarned of an imminent attack. If their knowledge is good as it has seemed to be -- that is, before each attack, the warning has gone off. That was the all-clear, perhaps an indication that they feel that their skies are safer this time, that their buildings are now safe from any imminent threat.
It is a city on edge, but very strangely, Wolf, as you can see from your pictures, while there are buildings burning, the lights of the city are on. This is a city that is under attack at night from the air, yet the lights of the city remain on, the streetlights, many of the building lights. It is a bright city tonight. It is a clearly illuminated city at this time, Wolf.
BLITZER: And before I let you go, Nic, if we could just go back 24 hours, interesting how the -- this game, in effect, that's been played by the U.S. and Iraq, the U.S. goes ahead and launches Tomahawk cruise missiles, hoping to kill, destroy Iraqi leadership positions, command and control. They were hoping, of course, to get the Iraqi leader himself, Saddam Hussein.
That's quickly followed by a videotape presentation on Iraqi television by Saddam Hussein, more statements by other Iraqi leaders, pictures of Saddam Hussein meeting with his top leaders or within the past few hours. And that, in turn, is now followed by a U.S. second wave of bombardment, which is simultaneously followed by U.S. Marines moving into southern Iraq.
If prelude is what we can expect to -- down the road, presumably the next step now, if there is a lull, Nic, would be some sort of response from the Iraqi leadership.
ROBERTSON: That's entirely possible. It's very interesting, particularly when we listened to Barbara Starr's report from the Pentagon. The Pentagon, of course, had been briefing that when the war gets going properly, it will -- the bombing will shock and awe the population. Clearly, that has not yet happened here in this city. The psychological advantage, however, of preparing a city, preparing Iraqi officials, preparing the people and telling them that when it starts, it will be terrible.
But it has started in a smaller fashion, and it has started in a small way. People -- many people here must be literally living on the edge, knowing that there has been this threat of shock and awe, aware that the bombing has started, that it has begun. But this shock and awe, this moment that they were told to expect when everything started, they were told to expect a huge bombardment.
It hasn't happened yet. They know that this threat still lurks out there. They know it is coming at some point. The psychological impact must be quite significant on many people of this city at this time. It has begun in a small way. Not as they were told, but they know and they believe likely that the full force, as outlined by the Pentagon, yet to arrive here, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thanks very much.
And Aaron, as I throw it back to you, I guess we're going to wait the next move, now, assuming this lull continues in terms of bombardment. The next step will be President Bush will be speaking within the hour. We'll, of course, have live coverage of that, and we'll stand by to see what, if anything, we hear from the Iraqi leadership, Aaron.
BROWN: I think it's -- just to pick up on a point you were talking about, both governments in this case, the Iraqi government and the U.S. government, making a point of showing their leaders, showing them to their populations, showing them to the international viewing audiences. This is all being carried around the world, for somewhat different reasons, of course.
But they are making a point of putting on television the leadership of the countries so that the world knows what -- where these two governments are at this moment as this starts to unfold in this kind of raggedy way that it's unfolded. Certainly not at all as we expected.
Christiane Amanpour in Kuwait City -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, just a couple of items to report. The Kuwait news agency is reporting that coalition forces have taken Umkasa, which is a border town just across the Kuwait border inside Iraq. It's also on a port. It's in also an area of population.
Now, I immediately called a British military spokesman, and they will not confirm that for us. They will just say that, as we've already been reporting, that British and U.S. forces have, in fact, launched forward, have crossed over into southern Iraq, as we've already been reporting, but will not confirm that at least one immediate border town has fallen.
Also, to expand a little bit on some of those incoming artillery that we've been reporting all day, a British military spokesman saying that about 10 of those Iraqi missiles, fired from Iraqi positions in southern Iraq onto what he calls coalition forces, in other words, the area in which both U.S. and British forces are stationed, he cannot speak from his vantage point for the rest of the staging point of the U.S. forces, but about 10 missiles have come in. None have struck the base areas where the forces are amassed, and there has been no casualties.
But this spokesman tells us that some of those were Scuds. I pressed him for any more information on that, and he could not give us any further information, other than some of those were Scuds, he said.
We've been briefed rather heavily over the last couple of days. And perhaps that's what's showing in this, as you say, sort of small- scale -- at least relatively small-scale start to this war, that what they wanted to do was not to destroy unnecessarily Iraqi soldiers or Iraqi civilians.
They want to keep giving messages to the leadership to try to smoke them out, if you like -- sorry to use that term -- but to try to put pressure on the Iraqi leadership, at least in the initial stages, to hope that that will cause some kind of reflection and perhaps surrender, if you like, of the leadership.
They're very concerned, they tell us, about preserving as much infrastructure, as much of the regular Iraqi forces, and, of course, sparing the civilians insofar as they can. So it's almost a contradiction in terms in terms of what we're being briefed, that it is going to be, we've been told for so many weeks and months, this massive aerial bombardment.
But on the other hand, they also want to go soft for fear of doing too much damage to civilians and other kinds of infrastructure if they don't have to do that. Back to you, Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, how different have the last 24 hours been than the first 24 hours of the first Gulf War?
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, it's different, because in the first Gulf War, there was a massive aerial bombardment. You saw those pictures from Baghdad. And it lasted for five weeks, let's not forget that it was a five-week campaign with heavy targeting around Baghdad, around other major military targets, and, indeed, other cities.
But, of course, massive bombardment inside Kuwait, where the Iraqi forces were arrayed, just before the Saudi border, in other words, southern Kuwait.
So it took an enormous amount of time by all sorts of aircraft and different bombing raids to soften up, quote, "the environment" before the land forces breached the border between Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and then liberated Kuwait.
And if you remember, the ground offensive was just 100 days. So that was a very different picture than what we're seeing right now.
BROWN: As we can see -- stay with us here. We can see these pictures recorded now, pictures of buildings that were hit in these attacks in Baghdad earlier, now several hours earlier. As you can see, it was dark at the time.
There are stationary cameras set up in a number of locations around Baghdad. As long as they are operational, we'll be able to take pictures from them, put them on the air. At some point, we will probably lose them. But we haven't lost them yet, thankfully.
It is the best window we have. But in truth, and this was mentioned earlier, what we all are getting, what you are getting, what we are getting, and in some respects all we have, is a very narrow view of what is going on.
There are parts of the country we simply are not able to report from. We are able to report from Baghdad. We have a pretty good feel of where these three missiles hit or these three strikes hit. There were certainly more than three missiles, extraordinary amount of antiaircraft fire going on.
But what may be going on in the outlying areas, outside of the city, in other parts of the country, particularly in the south, where we know the Marines have crossed the border, is much more difficult to explain at this point. We just don't have the eyes for it.
Christiane, is there in Kuwait a concern now that they are going to get hit? Three weeks ago when we -- four weeks ago, I guess, now, when we were there, that was the talk of Kuwait, whether or not the Iraqis would try and hit them with chemical weapons as a retaliatory measure.
AMANPOUR: Well, as our reporters and anchors here in Kuwait have been reporting to you all day, there have been many, many air raid sirens today. and there have been many occasions, certainly, in the last 12 hours, where people have gone down to bomb shelters and basements, not only around the city, but at this hotel as well.
And there has been that fear. That has not yet materialized, and it is not yet materialized at the front, either. Asking the spokespeople up there, What is the incoming from Iraq? they have said that it is conventional so far.
And although people up there, both journalists and, of course, the troops up there, have donned their chemical protective gear, chemical and biological protective gear, and I've been told on occasion sitting for seven hours in trenches completely suited up to ward off the worst possible calamity, that has not yet happened.
And so far, what's been incoming is conventional.
BROWN: Christiane, thank you.
As we look at these pictures of Baghdad, and going back to something Nic Robertson reported a bit ago, the lights are still on. So one of the things we know that has not happened is that the United States forces have not yet attempted to or succeeded in -- but I think attempted to is most certainly correct here -- take out the electrical grid, try and take out the electrical grid in the city.
That is a complicated thing, if you can take the electricity away. At this point, they have not done that.
Miles O'Brien has been working on, I gather, sort of laying out here, where we believe the military campaign is moving at this point -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, let's talk broadly about that first, and then we want to give you some explainers as to some of these pictures you're seeing, give you some sense of what's going on.
Our expert through all this is retired major general Don Shepperd with the U.S. Air Force.
Good to have you, General Shepperd.
Big picture here, as you look at some of the -- what's arrayed against Iraq, in very simple representation, not entirely accurate, though, the big picture is that most of what's happening is coming up sort of this way, from the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. Is that accurate to say, first of all?
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Persian Gulf, Red Sea, and also on land in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Gulf. Basically, you've got carriers in the Mediterranean. We don't know if there's any carriers in the Red Sea or not, but the airplanes can come across Israel and Jordan or go down across Saudi Arabia. The aircraft off the carriers in the Persian Gulf can come this way.
We also have B-52 bombers coming from the United Kingdom, and also Diego Garcia and B-2s are reportedly coming from Diego Garcia, as well as Tomahawk missiles coming from ships in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.
O'BRIEN: And no clear indication at this juncture as to what we're seeing, as to what platforms, which is -- would be the military term, are being used right at the moment?
SHEPPERD: No, but a good guess is Tomahawk missiles and Stealth airplanes is what you're seeing in downtown Baghdad.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's take a look at some of this antiaircraft fire that we've been watching. We just want to explain to folks exactly what they're seeing as they see these little flashes there. What are they -- what do those flashes all mean, Don Shepperd? Those are not the result of any U.S. weapons, correct?
SHEPPERD: No. It's Iraqi antiaircraft weapons. And what you see, first of all, is flashes on the ground. That's the muzzle fire. Then for every streak of light you see up there, which is a tracer, there are six other rounds between tracers. It's a one-to-seven tracer ratio. So when you see tracers, you're seeing one-seventh of what's fired. The little flashes up there, when the round gets to the end of its time of flight, it blows up in the air, so (UNINTELLIGIBLE) round doesn't come down and impact on the ground and hit your own country.
O'BRIEN: So it makes tiny little pieces...
SHEPPERD: Tiny pieces.
O'BRIEN: ... when they fall to the ground.
All right, let's take it, let's talk a little bit about radar suppression, knocking out a radar system, as we look at some animation we put together here. We'll give you a sense of how this all plays out. First of all, we take you down to -- these are SA-2 surface-to- air missiles, Soviet air missiles commonly used in the Iraqi army.
SHEPPERD: Yes, all the way from the Vietnam era, but much improved, and a lot of improvements to them made to them by the Iraqis. It's the SA-2, it's on guideline transporters there. They're set up and ready to fire. They need to be tied to a radar. Now, this is a fansong (ph) radar...
O'BRIEN: Fansong. SHEPPERD: Fansong. Basically, it's an acquisition and tracking radar. It tracks the -- gives more information to the control center that fires the missiles. And the airplane is coming inbound now. And what we want to do is screw this up. So the next thing we do is, we send in a jamming aircraft like the EA6-B Prowler.
O'BRIEN: All right, EA6-B, right there, that's a carrier-based aircraft, and that just plays havoc with radar systems, right?
SHEPPERD: Carrier based, flown by combined air, Air Force and Navy crews. And what that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) airplane does is work against the radar site itself, the screens of the operator. Instead of one target up there, he's got multiple targets, has to decide where his target went, very difficult.
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