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Pentagon Briefing Analysis With Don Shepperd, David Grange

Aired March 25, 2003 - 14:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We've been watching a Pentagon briefing. General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs along with Donald Rumsfeld, the Defense Secretary, talking to reporters offering their assessment of the situation in Iraq right now. Lots to talk about it.
Let's get to it with our generals, Don Shepperd, retired Air Force, and Dave Grange, retired U.S. Army.

First of all, just quickly, what do you take away from the briefing?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPHERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I take away from the briefing that on schedule from a ground standpoint. The Republican Guard divisions surrounding Baghdad are about to get pounded and pounded bad.

O'BRIEN: What do you say?

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that it's -- we can be assured that ground operations are going to continue regardless of the storms they're talking about and all the chatter about tempo.

O'BRIEN: I'll tell you what --- we'll start in the center because we want to talk about the sandstorms because we saw those dramatic pictures from Walt Rogers, who is with the 37th Calvary. pretty much in this area right there.

Tell me what is going on there and what -- when you're in a sandstorm like that, with all the technology the U.S. has, can you still get through?

GRANGE: You still can get through. There are safety considerations. The enemy can get much closer to you with the smaller caliber weapons systems, not the long range weapons systems. It's a command and control challenge but it can be done because of the training of the troops and the technology they have in the vehicles.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk Nasariyah now. What do we know about that Don Shepperd?

SHEPPERD: Basically the 3rd Infantry Division has crossed the Euphrates across to Nasariyah. The Marines have crossed. Nasariyah has been bypassed. They're now going back and cleaning up the elements of the 51st Iraqi division. O'BRIEN: But not control in the classic sense of the word?

SHEPPERD: Clean-up to do.

O'BRIEN: Clean up to do, Nasariyah, has what -- 5,000 people?

SHEPPERD: Five thousand people.

O'BRIEN: Down to Basra, second largest city in Iraq. Situation there is quite murky today, as murky as the sandstorm, I guess. But there is the possibility at least, based upon some of our reporting from there, there is an uprising against the regime.

That's significant, say Grange?

GRANGE: Uprising against the regime, at least the spark of one, maybe initiated through some agents, people that we have communication with on the coalition side. Don't know.

But it's going to be pressure put on the Fedayeen and the paramilitary forces. But you have to have the people in the city to support the coalition forces to make that happen.

O'BRIEN: If that does turn, that does -- things can unravel very quickly, can't they Don Shepperd?

SHEPPERD: That's the beginning. Umm Qasr has already been pacified -- Basra and Nasiriyah. You want them to spread north to Baghdad where you have people giving up and changing sides.

O'BRIEN: Interesting thing, and we'll get the big picture in a minute. But this idea that the fight is being returned by terrorists, essentially. The U.S. Army is not set up to fight against terrorists.

GRANGE: Well, they are. The coalition forces is set up to do counter terrorist, counter -- paramilitary operations. And they have to take this kind of warfare against the coalition force because they have to use asymmetric means, means that they know they can't go symmetricaly force on force. So they have to do some of these asymmetric measures, some of them illegal to the rule of land warfare.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the basic columns that are going up. What you have right now, somewhere out here is -- in this neck of the woods is the 3-7 Calvary. A little further to the west, we have the 101st Airborne. I'm going to put it there, but we don't know exactly where it is.

A little further south, we have a group of Marines that are making progress. Where are they right now?

GRANGE: You have Marines north of Nasiriyah and you have British Marines, commandos north of Basra.

O'BRIEN: North of Basra. So what that sets up is basically three columns now, well actually four if you count the 101st, right? I just went way beyond Baghdad. Let's do that right again. Go ahead. SHEPPERD: It gives you three -- possibly three major's of approach north. Then with the 101st they can go anywhere in the battlefield from and established position.

O'BRIEN: They need to secure and airfield and be in a place to drop in.

SHEPPERD: With that on there lay a line on there. What you're going to see is the fire support coordination line.

North of this line, the air force is going to be turned loose within their rules of engagement to start pounding the Manida (ph) division, the Alnida (ph) division, and the alhamrubba (ph) division of the Republican Guard. South of this, the marine forwarded air controllers embedded with the Marines.

O'BRIEN: Is it shock and awe?

GRANGE: Is it shock and awe? I personally hate this phrase. Here is what the shock is, a 2, 000-pound bomb in the basement of a high rise building an Iraqi command and control center, a seventy ton tank coming out of the dust storm 10 yards from your position. That's shock.

What's awe? Awe is that the small numbers of civilians that have been injured because of the discipline of the coalition forces on the ground. What's awe? Controlling thousands of airplanes and thousands of vehicles day and night for six days in this desert fight. That's awe.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for the insights -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much.

A new and surprising fight is under way in and around the Iraqi city of Basra. This is the second largest city in Iraq. More than one million residents. Not only are coalition forces battling Iraqi troops, but we also have reports of a popular civilian uprising under way right now against Saddam Hussein's ruling Baath party. CNN's Christiane Amanpour is not far away from the fighting and is joining us now live on the phone. Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, indeed, there are these reports coming out heavily attributed to British military intelligence in and around Basra. And of course the British 7th Armored Brigade, the famed Desert Rats, outside Basra.

What we're being told is as far as they can gather, there may be a popular uprising going on, but it's very unclear as to how widespread, how many people involved and exactly the full circumstances of it. We understand that there were some demonstrations inside Basra this afternoon around the so-called Fedayeen buildings and that this may have been put down.

We also understand that the British forces have been engaged heavily with the Iraqi forces inside Basra over a period of at least 36 hours now, on and off, and they are meeting fairly stiff resistance from those forces inside.

But if indeed these reports of an uprising pan out, that is exactly what certainly the British forces and, in a wider sense, the U.S. forces as well, are hoping for from the urban areas and from the key cities. They wanted to be seen as liberators. They want to encourage uprisings against the ruling party. And they want that eventually to translate to something similar in Baghdad.

To that end, around Basra, they have been targeting the British. Baath party headquarters. They did so at a small town outside of Basra to the south last night and they may have done the same thing again in Basra over the last several hours. So that is an attempt to separate the political leadership from the civilians and to try to give the civilians space to rise up against the organs of Saddam Hussein's regime, whether it be military, or political leadership there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, just to give this some perspective, you and I remember the uprising of the Shiia in Basra, elsewhere in southern Iraq 12 years ago after the first Gulf War, an uprising that obviously was crushed by the Iraqi military.

There is a huge difference this time around. Namely, the British forces that you're covering as well as the U.S. Forces in the area.

Are these people going to get the close military support they're apparently desperately seeking if in fact they are uprising, rising up against the Iraqi military?

AMANPOUR: Well, one would assume so given the enormous promises that both the Americans and the British have given to these people. And, you know, 12 years later again encouraged them to rise up.

Interestingly, Prime Minister Tony Blair today gave a statement and questions and answers at Downing Street in which he said specifically we remember 12 years ago, but this time we will not let you down. Of course, last time we remember that they did -- they were encouraged, they believe to rise up and when they did, the U.S. administration at that time of President Bush did not respond and, as you mentioned, allowed the regime to crack down and crush them very heavily.

So there's been -- you know, there had been hope and expectation that these kinds of uprisings or rebellions against the Saddam Hussein regime would happen earlier on in this campaign. And many British and indeed American military have expressed surprise on the ground that they have experienced the kind of resistance on the ground that they have. But if in fact this is true and if it pans out in Basra, then it's one of the prime objectives of this operation, particularly if that is something that then spreads especially into the Baghdad area.

BLITZER: All right. Christiane Amanpour -- she's not far away from Basra. She's one of our journalists covering this on the front lines. Christiane, thanks very much.

On the medical front, the U.S. navy surgeons and support staff known as the "Devil Docs" had a hellish time today against not only the weather but an Iraqi unit that ventured much too close for comfort.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our medical correspondent, is embedded with the "Devil Docs." He's joining us now, live via videophone, with an update -- Sanjay?.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf.

Yes, good evening from central Iraq. No question, today was a very chaotic day. You heard about the sandstorms, I guess, all day today. These sandstorms were truly impressive -- 100 mile-an-hour winds at times. Just lots of sand blowing all over the place. In fact, one of the medical tents, a triage tent, was completely toppled over, all the equipment then having to be taken to a clean tent and subsequently cleaned.

I will tell you, though Wolf, all of that sandstorm has given way to a rain storm. It is raining. You may even see some of the drops coming through the tent on to my head here. It is raining outside. There was quite a bit of lightning earlier as well.

Wolf, as you mentioned, in addition to that, maybe about six or seven hours ago, we got word that there had been a breach of the perimeter. Basically what that means is that some enemy forces had been sighted in the area -- at least that's what one Marine told us. An inner perimeter was set up by several of the Marines. And there was reports of enemy forces in the area.

The threat still remains, although many people have started not being so hunkered down and going about their business, and getting back to normal as you can see behind me. Just to tell you, Wolf, we are in the jump ward. This is a very busy part of that medical corps. This is where a lot of patients who don't need operations but are still wounded come. Half of the ward is for Iraqi and half of the ward for Marines. Right now there's 16 patients in here, 10 of whom are Iraqi and six coalition force members -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sanjay, as you take a look at the sandstorms, though, how much of a problem is that for these doctors who are trying to treat patients, the sand getting into the equipment, sand getting into rooms? I assume that's a serious issue as far as infection is concerned.

GUPTA: Yes, that's right, Wolf. They've taken a lot of precautions to prevent exactly what you're saying from happening.

I'll give you some examples. The operating room actually has a floor in it so as to keep sand from coming up from the bottom. There is also sometimes two or three layers, several zippers in order to get in. All those zippers remained closed most of the day today.

The real delay in operations came not from the operating room but rather from the fact that nobody really could get in or out of here. Helicopters were not flying in today. Ambulances were having a hard time negotiating. Visibility was at two or three feet. So the only reason operations came to a close was because of that. Many of the surgeons were sitting around literally just ready to go for anything that happened. But it ended up being a relatively quiet, although sandy day -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta with the "Devil Docs", a special military unit of medical doctors and nurses treating not only injured U.S. military personal but Iraqi prisoners as well. Sanjay be careful where you are.

Judy -- let's go back to Judy Woodruff in Washington.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.

We want to touch on something now that General Grange and -- both generals were talking to Miles about just a minute ago. And that is the tip of the spear, the 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary which is leading the allied charge up toward Baghdad. We want to tell you things are not moving as quickly as this animation we're going to show you would suggest. But we're going to show you this. Here we go.

But CNN's embedded reporter, Walter Rogers, tells us that progress is being made. The 37th has a storied history going all the way back to Little Big Horn. It is based at Ft. Stewart in Georgia. Today, though, it was tested perhaps like never before by blinding sand and hostile fire in every direction.

But our Walt Rogers says the 37th not only endured, it prevailed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we saw today was perhaps the best news the coalition forces have had on the military front in several days. 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary United States Army outflanked the city of al Samoa (ph) and found a crossing across the Euphrates River. The reason this is so important is twofold. One of course is Saddam had instructed his soldiers from the Fedayeen and the Republican Guard to hold that line at all costs. And of course the other reason is that this is a clear gap which follow-on troops could follow through at this point.

It was not an easy crossing, by any stretch of the imagination. The convoy I was traveling in, which was with apache troop last night, came under extraordinarily heavy fire. I spoke with an Army Major a few seconds ago and he said, "I hope I never have to go through one of those again." We were taking tracer rockets, tracer bullets, incoming, outgoing. They were bouncing off the vehicles, ricocheting off the vehicles in front of us, sending red (ph) streams at right angles right off the sides of tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles.

There was a zapper (ph) trying to crawl up through a drainage ditch right alongside us. He was within a few feet of where my cameraman and I were standing. A few seconds longer he could have opened up with an AK. Fortunately in that same firefight, the machine gunner on the tank in front of us had night vision goggles, he saw this zapper (ph) and he cut him down very quickly. There were rocket-propelled grenades flying all around. And that was last night. There was yet another gauntlet yet to be run for the 7th Calvary today. That was after the Calvary crossed the bridge over the Euphrates River in their heavy vehicles. No sooner had they reached the other side than the Iraqis began dropping mortars all around us, one mortar off to my right -- and I had the car window open - it was so close, so loud that I could hear the fragments of the mortar exploding upwards through the palm throngs in the trees.

And then we're under constant machine gunfire, AK-47 fire. But one of the soldiers I spoke with a few moments ago said the sandstorm may actually have saved us. There were no casualties although some of the vehicles had gear shot off. But the sandstorm actually helped us because the Iraqis were standing back at bunkers 300 meters or so back of the road. The visibility was no more than let's say 75 to 100 meters.

That being the case, the Iraqis were just shooting in the direction of the noise of the 7th Calvary's convoy. That's the unit we're traveling with. So they were shooting blindly and they didn't hit us. Although some vehicles were hit. More than a few have bullet holes in them. That was not the case with our vehicle, fortunately.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: That extraordinary report from our Walter Rodgers traveling with the 37th. And as you could tell, much of the time they were moving when he was talking, he couldn't see anything, the troops couldn't see anything. It is just an extraordinary set of circumstances that they found themselves in, in that blinding sandstorm.

Well, there's one question that continues to be raised. It continues to be unanswered. And that is, would Iraqi forces use chemical weapons against coalition forces, especially as they get closer to Baghdad? We just heard U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld say there are scraps of information to that effect. He says there's no way of knowing. But we now know there are U.S. intelligence reports that are suggesting the Iraqis might do so.

And here with some more details, CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. Hi, David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi ,Judy.

As you say, there are reports that, first of all, that artillery shells with chemical weapons inside them may have been issued to some of the Iraqi Republican Guard units that are protecting the capital, Baghdad. There are also reports reaching the U.S. that there may have been orders given to these units that in the event U.S. and coalition forces get past a sort of red line around Baghdad, in the event they penetrate that red line, that chemical weapons are authorized to be used and should be used.

Now, officials stress that these are reports. They wouldn't say they're conclusive. And there's also the great question as to whether the troops will obey orders to do it if they're ordered to do so. Further more, we should add that just today once again, Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz said that American and British assertions that Iraq still has chemical weapons and other weapons of mass destruction are lies.

So it really is still a question, but we do have these reports that chemical artillery shells may be in the hands of Republican Guards around Baghdad and they may have orders to use them -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: David, we were hearing similar reports just as this war was beginning to get underway. Are these new intelligence reports, is that fair to say?

ENSOR: I'm really not sure. I don't think there's any new information in the last three or four days. However, checking again with officials, they do seem to have a somewhat heightened sense of urgency about this. It may be because the troops are approaching that city.

WOODRUFF: No doubt. They are within 50, 60 miles. As we heard Secretary Rumsfeld say a few moments ago, as they get closer, that is when the concern about these possible chemical weapons certainly gets greater.

All right. David Ensor, thanks very much.

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Grange>


Aired March 25, 2003 - 14:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We've been watching a Pentagon briefing. General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs along with Donald Rumsfeld, the Defense Secretary, talking to reporters offering their assessment of the situation in Iraq right now. Lots to talk about it.
Let's get to it with our generals, Don Shepperd, retired Air Force, and Dave Grange, retired U.S. Army.

First of all, just quickly, what do you take away from the briefing?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPHERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I take away from the briefing that on schedule from a ground standpoint. The Republican Guard divisions surrounding Baghdad are about to get pounded and pounded bad.

O'BRIEN: What do you say?

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that it's -- we can be assured that ground operations are going to continue regardless of the storms they're talking about and all the chatter about tempo.

O'BRIEN: I'll tell you what --- we'll start in the center because we want to talk about the sandstorms because we saw those dramatic pictures from Walt Rogers, who is with the 37th Calvary. pretty much in this area right there.

Tell me what is going on there and what -- when you're in a sandstorm like that, with all the technology the U.S. has, can you still get through?

GRANGE: You still can get through. There are safety considerations. The enemy can get much closer to you with the smaller caliber weapons systems, not the long range weapons systems. It's a command and control challenge but it can be done because of the training of the troops and the technology they have in the vehicles.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk Nasariyah now. What do we know about that Don Shepperd?

SHEPPERD: Basically the 3rd Infantry Division has crossed the Euphrates across to Nasariyah. The Marines have crossed. Nasariyah has been bypassed. They're now going back and cleaning up the elements of the 51st Iraqi division. O'BRIEN: But not control in the classic sense of the word?

SHEPPERD: Clean-up to do.

O'BRIEN: Clean up to do, Nasariyah, has what -- 5,000 people?

SHEPPERD: Five thousand people.

O'BRIEN: Down to Basra, second largest city in Iraq. Situation there is quite murky today, as murky as the sandstorm, I guess. But there is the possibility at least, based upon some of our reporting from there, there is an uprising against the regime.

That's significant, say Grange?

GRANGE: Uprising against the regime, at least the spark of one, maybe initiated through some agents, people that we have communication with on the coalition side. Don't know.

But it's going to be pressure put on the Fedayeen and the paramilitary forces. But you have to have the people in the city to support the coalition forces to make that happen.

O'BRIEN: If that does turn, that does -- things can unravel very quickly, can't they Don Shepperd?

SHEPPERD: That's the beginning. Umm Qasr has already been pacified -- Basra and Nasiriyah. You want them to spread north to Baghdad where you have people giving up and changing sides.

O'BRIEN: Interesting thing, and we'll get the big picture in a minute. But this idea that the fight is being returned by terrorists, essentially. The U.S. Army is not set up to fight against terrorists.

GRANGE: Well, they are. The coalition forces is set up to do counter terrorist, counter -- paramilitary operations. And they have to take this kind of warfare against the coalition force because they have to use asymmetric means, means that they know they can't go symmetricaly force on force. So they have to do some of these asymmetric measures, some of them illegal to the rule of land warfare.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the basic columns that are going up. What you have right now, somewhere out here is -- in this neck of the woods is the 3-7 Calvary. A little further to the west, we have the 101st Airborne. I'm going to put it there, but we don't know exactly where it is.

A little further south, we have a group of Marines that are making progress. Where are they right now?

GRANGE: You have Marines north of Nasiriyah and you have British Marines, commandos north of Basra.

O'BRIEN: North of Basra. So what that sets up is basically three columns now, well actually four if you count the 101st, right? I just went way beyond Baghdad. Let's do that right again. Go ahead. SHEPPERD: It gives you three -- possibly three major's of approach north. Then with the 101st they can go anywhere in the battlefield from and established position.

O'BRIEN: They need to secure and airfield and be in a place to drop in.

SHEPPERD: With that on there lay a line on there. What you're going to see is the fire support coordination line.

North of this line, the air force is going to be turned loose within their rules of engagement to start pounding the Manida (ph) division, the Alnida (ph) division, and the alhamrubba (ph) division of the Republican Guard. South of this, the marine forwarded air controllers embedded with the Marines.

O'BRIEN: Is it shock and awe?

GRANGE: Is it shock and awe? I personally hate this phrase. Here is what the shock is, a 2, 000-pound bomb in the basement of a high rise building an Iraqi command and control center, a seventy ton tank coming out of the dust storm 10 yards from your position. That's shock.

What's awe? Awe is that the small numbers of civilians that have been injured because of the discipline of the coalition forces on the ground. What's awe? Controlling thousands of airplanes and thousands of vehicles day and night for six days in this desert fight. That's awe.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for the insights -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much.

A new and surprising fight is under way in and around the Iraqi city of Basra. This is the second largest city in Iraq. More than one million residents. Not only are coalition forces battling Iraqi troops, but we also have reports of a popular civilian uprising under way right now against Saddam Hussein's ruling Baath party. CNN's Christiane Amanpour is not far away from the fighting and is joining us now live on the phone. Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, indeed, there are these reports coming out heavily attributed to British military intelligence in and around Basra. And of course the British 7th Armored Brigade, the famed Desert Rats, outside Basra.

What we're being told is as far as they can gather, there may be a popular uprising going on, but it's very unclear as to how widespread, how many people involved and exactly the full circumstances of it. We understand that there were some demonstrations inside Basra this afternoon around the so-called Fedayeen buildings and that this may have been put down.

We also understand that the British forces have been engaged heavily with the Iraqi forces inside Basra over a period of at least 36 hours now, on and off, and they are meeting fairly stiff resistance from those forces inside.

But if indeed these reports of an uprising pan out, that is exactly what certainly the British forces and, in a wider sense, the U.S. forces as well, are hoping for from the urban areas and from the key cities. They wanted to be seen as liberators. They want to encourage uprisings against the ruling party. And they want that eventually to translate to something similar in Baghdad.

To that end, around Basra, they have been targeting the British. Baath party headquarters. They did so at a small town outside of Basra to the south last night and they may have done the same thing again in Basra over the last several hours. So that is an attempt to separate the political leadership from the civilians and to try to give the civilians space to rise up against the organs of Saddam Hussein's regime, whether it be military, or political leadership there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, just to give this some perspective, you and I remember the uprising of the Shiia in Basra, elsewhere in southern Iraq 12 years ago after the first Gulf War, an uprising that obviously was crushed by the Iraqi military.

There is a huge difference this time around. Namely, the British forces that you're covering as well as the U.S. Forces in the area.

Are these people going to get the close military support they're apparently desperately seeking if in fact they are uprising, rising up against the Iraqi military?

AMANPOUR: Well, one would assume so given the enormous promises that both the Americans and the British have given to these people. And, you know, 12 years later again encouraged them to rise up.

Interestingly, Prime Minister Tony Blair today gave a statement and questions and answers at Downing Street in which he said specifically we remember 12 years ago, but this time we will not let you down. Of course, last time we remember that they did -- they were encouraged, they believe to rise up and when they did, the U.S. administration at that time of President Bush did not respond and, as you mentioned, allowed the regime to crack down and crush them very heavily.

So there's been -- you know, there had been hope and expectation that these kinds of uprisings or rebellions against the Saddam Hussein regime would happen earlier on in this campaign. And many British and indeed American military have expressed surprise on the ground that they have experienced the kind of resistance on the ground that they have. But if in fact this is true and if it pans out in Basra, then it's one of the prime objectives of this operation, particularly if that is something that then spreads especially into the Baghdad area.

BLITZER: All right. Christiane Amanpour -- she's not far away from Basra. She's one of our journalists covering this on the front lines. Christiane, thanks very much.

On the medical front, the U.S. navy surgeons and support staff known as the "Devil Docs" had a hellish time today against not only the weather but an Iraqi unit that ventured much too close for comfort.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our medical correspondent, is embedded with the "Devil Docs." He's joining us now, live via videophone, with an update -- Sanjay?.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf.

Yes, good evening from central Iraq. No question, today was a very chaotic day. You heard about the sandstorms, I guess, all day today. These sandstorms were truly impressive -- 100 mile-an-hour winds at times. Just lots of sand blowing all over the place. In fact, one of the medical tents, a triage tent, was completely toppled over, all the equipment then having to be taken to a clean tent and subsequently cleaned.

I will tell you, though Wolf, all of that sandstorm has given way to a rain storm. It is raining. You may even see some of the drops coming through the tent on to my head here. It is raining outside. There was quite a bit of lightning earlier as well.

Wolf, as you mentioned, in addition to that, maybe about six or seven hours ago, we got word that there had been a breach of the perimeter. Basically what that means is that some enemy forces had been sighted in the area -- at least that's what one Marine told us. An inner perimeter was set up by several of the Marines. And there was reports of enemy forces in the area.

The threat still remains, although many people have started not being so hunkered down and going about their business, and getting back to normal as you can see behind me. Just to tell you, Wolf, we are in the jump ward. This is a very busy part of that medical corps. This is where a lot of patients who don't need operations but are still wounded come. Half of the ward is for Iraqi and half of the ward for Marines. Right now there's 16 patients in here, 10 of whom are Iraqi and six coalition force members -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sanjay, as you take a look at the sandstorms, though, how much of a problem is that for these doctors who are trying to treat patients, the sand getting into the equipment, sand getting into rooms? I assume that's a serious issue as far as infection is concerned.

GUPTA: Yes, that's right, Wolf. They've taken a lot of precautions to prevent exactly what you're saying from happening.

I'll give you some examples. The operating room actually has a floor in it so as to keep sand from coming up from the bottom. There is also sometimes two or three layers, several zippers in order to get in. All those zippers remained closed most of the day today.

The real delay in operations came not from the operating room but rather from the fact that nobody really could get in or out of here. Helicopters were not flying in today. Ambulances were having a hard time negotiating. Visibility was at two or three feet. So the only reason operations came to a close was because of that. Many of the surgeons were sitting around literally just ready to go for anything that happened. But it ended up being a relatively quiet, although sandy day -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta with the "Devil Docs", a special military unit of medical doctors and nurses treating not only injured U.S. military personal but Iraqi prisoners as well. Sanjay be careful where you are.

Judy -- let's go back to Judy Woodruff in Washington.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.

We want to touch on something now that General Grange and -- both generals were talking to Miles about just a minute ago. And that is the tip of the spear, the 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary which is leading the allied charge up toward Baghdad. We want to tell you things are not moving as quickly as this animation we're going to show you would suggest. But we're going to show you this. Here we go.

But CNN's embedded reporter, Walter Rogers, tells us that progress is being made. The 37th has a storied history going all the way back to Little Big Horn. It is based at Ft. Stewart in Georgia. Today, though, it was tested perhaps like never before by blinding sand and hostile fire in every direction.

But our Walt Rogers says the 37th not only endured, it prevailed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we saw today was perhaps the best news the coalition forces have had on the military front in several days. 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary United States Army outflanked the city of al Samoa (ph) and found a crossing across the Euphrates River. The reason this is so important is twofold. One of course is Saddam had instructed his soldiers from the Fedayeen and the Republican Guard to hold that line at all costs. And of course the other reason is that this is a clear gap which follow-on troops could follow through at this point.

It was not an easy crossing, by any stretch of the imagination. The convoy I was traveling in, which was with apache troop last night, came under extraordinarily heavy fire. I spoke with an Army Major a few seconds ago and he said, "I hope I never have to go through one of those again." We were taking tracer rockets, tracer bullets, incoming, outgoing. They were bouncing off the vehicles, ricocheting off the vehicles in front of us, sending red (ph) streams at right angles right off the sides of tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles.

There was a zapper (ph) trying to crawl up through a drainage ditch right alongside us. He was within a few feet of where my cameraman and I were standing. A few seconds longer he could have opened up with an AK. Fortunately in that same firefight, the machine gunner on the tank in front of us had night vision goggles, he saw this zapper (ph) and he cut him down very quickly. There were rocket-propelled grenades flying all around. And that was last night. There was yet another gauntlet yet to be run for the 7th Calvary today. That was after the Calvary crossed the bridge over the Euphrates River in their heavy vehicles. No sooner had they reached the other side than the Iraqis began dropping mortars all around us, one mortar off to my right -- and I had the car window open - it was so close, so loud that I could hear the fragments of the mortar exploding upwards through the palm throngs in the trees.

And then we're under constant machine gunfire, AK-47 fire. But one of the soldiers I spoke with a few moments ago said the sandstorm may actually have saved us. There were no casualties although some of the vehicles had gear shot off. But the sandstorm actually helped us because the Iraqis were standing back at bunkers 300 meters or so back of the road. The visibility was no more than let's say 75 to 100 meters.

That being the case, the Iraqis were just shooting in the direction of the noise of the 7th Calvary's convoy. That's the unit we're traveling with. So they were shooting blindly and they didn't hit us. Although some vehicles were hit. More than a few have bullet holes in them. That was not the case with our vehicle, fortunately.

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WOODRUFF: That extraordinary report from our Walter Rodgers traveling with the 37th. And as you could tell, much of the time they were moving when he was talking, he couldn't see anything, the troops couldn't see anything. It is just an extraordinary set of circumstances that they found themselves in, in that blinding sandstorm.

Well, there's one question that continues to be raised. It continues to be unanswered. And that is, would Iraqi forces use chemical weapons against coalition forces, especially as they get closer to Baghdad? We just heard U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld say there are scraps of information to that effect. He says there's no way of knowing. But we now know there are U.S. intelligence reports that are suggesting the Iraqis might do so.

And here with some more details, CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. Hi, David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi ,Judy.

As you say, there are reports that, first of all, that artillery shells with chemical weapons inside them may have been issued to some of the Iraqi Republican Guard units that are protecting the capital, Baghdad. There are also reports reaching the U.S. that there may have been orders given to these units that in the event U.S. and coalition forces get past a sort of red line around Baghdad, in the event they penetrate that red line, that chemical weapons are authorized to be used and should be used.

Now, officials stress that these are reports. They wouldn't say they're conclusive. And there's also the great question as to whether the troops will obey orders to do it if they're ordered to do so. Further more, we should add that just today once again, Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz said that American and British assertions that Iraq still has chemical weapons and other weapons of mass destruction are lies.

So it really is still a question, but we do have these reports that chemical artillery shells may be in the hands of Republican Guards around Baghdad and they may have orders to use them -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: David, we were hearing similar reports just as this war was beginning to get underway. Are these new intelligence reports, is that fair to say?

ENSOR: I'm really not sure. I don't think there's any new information in the last three or four days. However, checking again with officials, they do seem to have a somewhat heightened sense of urgency about this. It may be because the troops are approaching that city.

WOODRUFF: No doubt. They are within 50, 60 miles. As we heard Secretary Rumsfeld say a few moments ago, as they get closer, that is when the concern about these possible chemical weapons certainly gets greater.

All right. David Ensor, thanks very much.

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