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Analysis: Advancing Iraqis May Be Good for Coalition
Aired March 26, 2003 - 13:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR: Let's go to the CNN news room. Our Miles O'Brien is standing by.
Miles, you're with some analysts, and I hope we get some good analysis of what may be going on where Walter is right now.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's do that right now, as a matter of fact. General Dave Grange, General Don Shepperd, Army and Air Force, respectively, both retired.
Quick lay of the land here. Quickly, ant to tell you, the area we're talking about of concern, what we just heard from Walter, right in here, south of Baghdad where that red arrow meets those two blue arrows.
First of all, we've got to temper what we hear -- and we're not going to question people in the field, but let's just put a dose of skepticism in this, just because that's what we're supposed to do here, and talk about this 1,000-vehicle column.
Does that ring true to you?
GEN. DAVE GRANGE, CNN ANALYST: Well, it seems a bit high in number, and it would surprise me that the Iraqis would move that much armored force, or even soft-skin vehicle force, south out of protected positions towards the coalition forces.
In fact, if that is true, I would say -- and at coalition headquarters -- that's good news.
O'BRIEN: Good news. Tell me why. You want to add on that?
GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN ANALYST: Well, basically, I was just going to set up the situation a little more. We've got the elite elements of the 3rd and the 7th down here at Najaf and these reported vehicles headed toward them, the other elements of the 3rd Infantry Division closing. We've got, coming up against the Medina division, and likely these vehicles would be coming from the Alnida (ph) armored division in the Baghdad area to reinforce, is what looks like has taken place, if all of this is true.
O'BRIEN: All right. Make your point there.
GRANGE: Why good?
O'BRIEN: Yes. GRANGE: Because we want the Iraqi forces to move. That's what the coalition forces want. They're easier to destroy in a formation like that.
O'BRIEN: OK.
GRANGE: So that's why I'm saying I think the coalition force would think that's good news.
O'BRIEN: So the presumption would be, anytime you're moving forces, particularly away from Baghdad, you're better off.
GRANGE: Yes.
SHEPPERD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Safe to say?
SHEPPERD: Yes, safe to say. Lousy weather with good weather coming. During lousy weather, what we've got is things such as the JSTARs over here looking and watching those movements, relaying coordinates. We have airplanes such as the F-15E designed to deliver in bad weather on radar.
And when the weather gets better you've got other elements that can deliver satellite-guided weapons and laser-guided weapons with forward air controllers.
O'BRIEN: All right. Walt Rodgers is on the very tip of that pointy spear that we're talking about. That same group that he was with, remains with, yesterday encountered some heavy action. Three M1-A1 Abram tanks were lost. That's the first time they've ever been lost.
GRANGE: Disabled.
O'BRIEN: Disabled. The crew survived. First of all, let's talk briefly about the tank and what we think brought those tanks down. The M1-A1, if we've got the specifics for you, put them on the screen for you, the M1-A1 tank, the Abrams, is pretty darned impervious and it takes a lot to bring it down. As a matter of fact, from the front, it's almost impossible to bring down.
We're not going to get the specifics on it right now, but just tell us what we know about it.
GRANGE: No problem. Some of the protective capabilities of the Abrams tank are classified. But unclassified, anti-tank weapons around the world, for instance, weapons like the coalition -- the tow...
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: ... can take it down, can take out any armored vehicle in the battlefield, not just the M-1 tank. But here's some tough AT- 3s, AT-4s and Milan (ph) missiles that can give tanks trouble. O'BRIEN: All right. There you go. You've got 120mm cannon, a cruising speed of 30 miles an hour, combat range.
But let's look at what we think might have been the weapon used against it, the AT-3...
GRANGE: Three or four Milan...
O'BRIEN: Soviet block Milan (ph)...
GRANGE: ... one of those type of missiles.
O'BRIEN: Wire guided, which means there's actually a wire attached to it as it goes in.
GRANGE: Wire attached, launched from a vehicle or from a ground- mounted tripod at the tank. And probably what happened was it knocked the tread off...
O'BRIEN: Yes.
GRANGE: ... or maybe hit part of the engine.
O'BRIEN: Let's look at that. Let's look at that on the -- on the BMP-1, if you're listening to me in the control room we can explain what that's all -- OK, we don't have that one either.
GRANGE: We don't need it. They're in this column here.
O'BRIEN: All right. Some of the fog of war for us right now.
All right. Tell us the significance of that, though. They knock a tread off, the crew walks away. That's heavy fire. Does that mean it's organized campaign, or could this be just skirmishes going after these columns?
GRANGE: It means that you have more robust enemy forces, not -- most likely not paramilitary forces that Walter Rodgers encountered the other day, with RPG fire and sniper fire. It means that you probably have lead elements of Republican Guard-type units.
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: What's significant about it, the crews walked away.
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: They can fix the tank.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk quickly before we go away, close air support here. Things like A-10 Warthogs, maybe a little bit of F- 16 cover. How's the Air Force playing in all of this?
SHEPPERD: All right. Basically right now, with the weather bad, it's unknown. But basically, again, you're going to have the Joint STARS watching the movements in bad weather and relaying things such as the F-15E, relaying coordinates.
When the weather clears, you can get forward air controllers in there, and the forward air controllers will employ A-10s, F-16s, F-18s and Navy aviation Harriers. And the idea is to smack all of these vehicles, especially coming south.
O'BRIEN: And the idea would be to soften those targets up with the Air Force first? Is that usually the way you go?
GRANGE: Air Force first, depending on the distance from the coalition forces, or simultaneously, maximum fire from a combined arms team.
O'BRIEN: All right. David Grange, Don Shepperd, thanks very much -- Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF, ANCHOR: All right, Miles, really interesting listening to all that, particularly after the Walt Rodgers' report of that Iraqi column moving down the road toward the American forces south of Baghdad.
We're obviously going to be watching and listening very closely for any developments in that area. All of this happening during a sandstorm.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 26, 2003 - 13:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR: Let's go to the CNN news room. Our Miles O'Brien is standing by.
Miles, you're with some analysts, and I hope we get some good analysis of what may be going on where Walter is right now.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's do that right now, as a matter of fact. General Dave Grange, General Don Shepperd, Army and Air Force, respectively, both retired.
Quick lay of the land here. Quickly, ant to tell you, the area we're talking about of concern, what we just heard from Walter, right in here, south of Baghdad where that red arrow meets those two blue arrows.
First of all, we've got to temper what we hear -- and we're not going to question people in the field, but let's just put a dose of skepticism in this, just because that's what we're supposed to do here, and talk about this 1,000-vehicle column.
Does that ring true to you?
GEN. DAVE GRANGE, CNN ANALYST: Well, it seems a bit high in number, and it would surprise me that the Iraqis would move that much armored force, or even soft-skin vehicle force, south out of protected positions towards the coalition forces.
In fact, if that is true, I would say -- and at coalition headquarters -- that's good news.
O'BRIEN: Good news. Tell me why. You want to add on that?
GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN ANALYST: Well, basically, I was just going to set up the situation a little more. We've got the elite elements of the 3rd and the 7th down here at Najaf and these reported vehicles headed toward them, the other elements of the 3rd Infantry Division closing. We've got, coming up against the Medina division, and likely these vehicles would be coming from the Alnida (ph) armored division in the Baghdad area to reinforce, is what looks like has taken place, if all of this is true.
O'BRIEN: All right. Make your point there.
GRANGE: Why good?
O'BRIEN: Yes. GRANGE: Because we want the Iraqi forces to move. That's what the coalition forces want. They're easier to destroy in a formation like that.
O'BRIEN: OK.
GRANGE: So that's why I'm saying I think the coalition force would think that's good news.
O'BRIEN: So the presumption would be, anytime you're moving forces, particularly away from Baghdad, you're better off.
GRANGE: Yes.
SHEPPERD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Safe to say?
SHEPPERD: Yes, safe to say. Lousy weather with good weather coming. During lousy weather, what we've got is things such as the JSTARs over here looking and watching those movements, relaying coordinates. We have airplanes such as the F-15E designed to deliver in bad weather on radar.
And when the weather gets better you've got other elements that can deliver satellite-guided weapons and laser-guided weapons with forward air controllers.
O'BRIEN: All right. Walt Rodgers is on the very tip of that pointy spear that we're talking about. That same group that he was with, remains with, yesterday encountered some heavy action. Three M1-A1 Abram tanks were lost. That's the first time they've ever been lost.
GRANGE: Disabled.
O'BRIEN: Disabled. The crew survived. First of all, let's talk briefly about the tank and what we think brought those tanks down. The M1-A1, if we've got the specifics for you, put them on the screen for you, the M1-A1 tank, the Abrams, is pretty darned impervious and it takes a lot to bring it down. As a matter of fact, from the front, it's almost impossible to bring down.
We're not going to get the specifics on it right now, but just tell us what we know about it.
GRANGE: No problem. Some of the protective capabilities of the Abrams tank are classified. But unclassified, anti-tank weapons around the world, for instance, weapons like the coalition -- the tow...
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: ... can take it down, can take out any armored vehicle in the battlefield, not just the M-1 tank. But here's some tough AT- 3s, AT-4s and Milan (ph) missiles that can give tanks trouble. O'BRIEN: All right. There you go. You've got 120mm cannon, a cruising speed of 30 miles an hour, combat range.
But let's look at what we think might have been the weapon used against it, the AT-3...
GRANGE: Three or four Milan...
O'BRIEN: Soviet block Milan (ph)...
GRANGE: ... one of those type of missiles.
O'BRIEN: Wire guided, which means there's actually a wire attached to it as it goes in.
GRANGE: Wire attached, launched from a vehicle or from a ground- mounted tripod at the tank. And probably what happened was it knocked the tread off...
O'BRIEN: Yes.
GRANGE: ... or maybe hit part of the engine.
O'BRIEN: Let's look at that. Let's look at that on the -- on the BMP-1, if you're listening to me in the control room we can explain what that's all -- OK, we don't have that one either.
GRANGE: We don't need it. They're in this column here.
O'BRIEN: All right. Some of the fog of war for us right now.
All right. Tell us the significance of that, though. They knock a tread off, the crew walks away. That's heavy fire. Does that mean it's organized campaign, or could this be just skirmishes going after these columns?
GRANGE: It means that you have more robust enemy forces, not -- most likely not paramilitary forces that Walter Rodgers encountered the other day, with RPG fire and sniper fire. It means that you probably have lead elements of Republican Guard-type units.
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: What's significant about it, the crews walked away.
O'BRIEN: Right.
GRANGE: They can fix the tank.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk quickly before we go away, close air support here. Things like A-10 Warthogs, maybe a little bit of F- 16 cover. How's the Air Force playing in all of this?
SHEPPERD: All right. Basically right now, with the weather bad, it's unknown. But basically, again, you're going to have the Joint STARS watching the movements in bad weather and relaying things such as the F-15E, relaying coordinates.
When the weather clears, you can get forward air controllers in there, and the forward air controllers will employ A-10s, F-16s, F-18s and Navy aviation Harriers. And the idea is to smack all of these vehicles, especially coming south.
O'BRIEN: And the idea would be to soften those targets up with the Air Force first? Is that usually the way you go?
GRANGE: Air Force first, depending on the distance from the coalition forces, or simultaneously, maximum fire from a combined arms team.
O'BRIEN: All right. David Grange, Don Shepperd, thanks very much -- Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF, ANCHOR: All right, Miles, really interesting listening to all that, particularly after the Walt Rodgers' report of that Iraqi column moving down the road toward the American forces south of Baghdad.
We're obviously going to be watching and listening very closely for any developments in that area. All of this happening during a sandstorm.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
