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U.S. Marines Have Gone Beyond Basra

Aired March 26, 2003 - 14:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to bring in Miles O'Brien in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta.
Miles, as you know, and as our generals know, our military analysts know, the U.S. Marines have basically gone beyond Basra. The British forces are now in charge of trying to mop up. Mop up might not necessarily be the right word, given the extent of the potential dangers there. But the British forces apparently have the major responsibility now of taking control of that second largest city in Iraq, Basra.

Let's bring in Miles O'Brien for some analysis.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Wolf. It's just one of some rather perplexing moves, perhaps to some, that we're witnessing right now, as we're reporting on it in real-time, trying to give you instant analysis and perspective with the help of retire Major General Don Shepherd of the U.S. Air Force.

Let's start in Basra. We put a big red arrow there, indicating that southeast movement, possibly a tactical retreat. We don't know. It doesn't, on the face of it, make a lot of sense. What do you think?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPHERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): It doesn't make a lot of sense, although the retreat portion does. If the population in Basra is rising up against the remaining Iraqi forces and the Fedayeen in Basra, that would make sense. They have no place to go other than southeast. They can't go north. The British basically have this entire sector under their responsibility, and the Marines are moving north now.

O'BRIEN: And Umm Qasr is under coalition control. So, clearly, what we're talking about here does not appear to be an offensive move in the classic sense.

SHEPHERD: And you've got to be very careful about these tactical reports that come out. People, you know, multiply the vehicles that they see in the fog of war here. And so you've got to be very, very careful to put it together over time.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's keep that in mind as we continue this discussion. Let's move on to Baghdad now and talk about this marketplace explosion. We'll just call it an explosion because there are so many possibilities. First of all, I want to show you the neighborhood, if we could look at some of our satellite imagery, courtesy of EarthView.com and our friends at Digital Globe.

As we zoom in on this Al-Shaab neighborhood, just across the Tigris River from the information ministry, which we've been telling you an awful lot about, it's this neighborhood right in here. And in that spot is a marketplace that was where this explosion occurred. Now, what are the possibilities? There are any number of them. Lay them out for us.

SHEPHERD: Right. The possibilities are we could have been targeting missile sites in that vicinity and one of the weapons, such as a Tomahawk or a Cruise Launch Missile went array. That's one possibility.

O'BRIEN: All right.

SHEPHERD: Another possibility is that it could be a surface-to- air missile site that they fired, of course, and it basically fell into that neighborhood or AAA into that neighborhood. It could be a malfunction...

O'BRIEN: Anti-aircraft fire.

SHEPHERD: Anti-aircraft fire. It could be a malfunctioning weapon or a weapon, such as a Tomahawk Missile that was shot. We saw one of those in one of the previous strikes go into the Al-Rashid Hotel several years ago.

O'BRIEN: Back in '91. Let's look quickly at the Tomahawk Missile. We'll tell you a little bit about it. We've told you an awful lot about its precision, tomahawk precision. It's satellite guided, terrain guided, has 1,000-mile range, can be launched. This particular one is launched off of Navy vessels, but there's another version, a derivative of it that goes off of B-52s, extremely accurate, if everything goes well. Of course, if things happen to it, if it's shot, certainly it could be redirected.

Let's move on to the south and talk about what's going on here where we just heard from Walter Rodgers within the hour with the 3-7th Cav, the very pointy end of this blue arrow right here, indicating this thrust of some kind out of Baghdad of Republican Guard armor. How big a thrust is it, do you suppose?

SHEPHERD: Well, the reports are that it is a 1,000 vehicles and is moving rapidly south out of Baghdad. Again, these are tactical reports, got to confirm them.

Now, the good news is that if this is true, we have F-15E aircraft from the Air Force that can operate in bad weather, such as the sandstorms, with radar and very precision munitions and be employed against those type of columns.

In addition, the weather is supposed to be clearing. And if it does, then F-16, F-18, AV-8V and A-10 aircraft can be employed in close air support against these elements.

O'BRIEN: All right. But is it accurate to say, when the weather goes down like this, some of the U.S. advantage, the air advantage goes away?

SHEPHERD: Indeed it does. No question about it, bad weather hampers air attacks. And it hampers air attacks by helicopters and also by fixed wing.

O'BRIEN: And so this would be, if you're a planner for the Iraqis, this would be a good time to move armor.

SHEPHERD: It would be a smart time to move in a big sandstorm, which you know the limited visibility limits particularly helicopter operations.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's look quickly at the 3-7th Cav, give you an idea of who's on the ground there. The 3-7th Cav, been at the Vanguard all throughout this event, based at Ft. Stewart Georgia.

The -37th Cav is sort of the lead for the 3rd Infantry Division.

SHEPHERD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Obviously, a storied outfit going back to General Custer's outfit. At the core of is the M1-A1 Abrams Tank, which was involved in all kinds of activity in between Najaf and Karbala. A couple of those tanks were disabled. That is historic. That's never happened in battle.

SHEPHERD: Yes, indeed. These -- the equipment they're using, these scouting vehicles, are the M1 Abrams Tank, the M3 Scout Vehicle, the M2 Abrams. All of those are elements there. The Kiowa Warriors precede them, if they can fly to scout. They also can get Apache Helicopters and what have you. But the tanks were probably attacked by an AT-3 Sager-type missile from a previous Soviet missile -- anti- tank missile.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quickly, those are often mounted on BPM-1s. We have a quick card to show you briefly about that. But this anti- tank weapon, wire-guided, and this Abrams Tank, for all its strength, can be disabled. It's not impervious.

We should point out the four-person crews, in each case, walked away from those engagements.

SHEPHERD: Yes. Heavily armored vehicle. If you hit it in the right place, you can do damage. BPM-1, 2s and 3s, they can mount these AT-3 Saggers and AT-4 Spigots on these. And if you hit it on the tread or something of that sort, you can knock the tread off, but then that tank can go back be repaired by repair crews if they want.

O'BRIEN: OK. Lots to keep track of. Thanks for helping us sort it out -- Don Shepherd, we appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 26, 2003 - 14:38   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to bring in Miles O'Brien in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta.
Miles, as you know, and as our generals know, our military analysts know, the U.S. Marines have basically gone beyond Basra. The British forces are now in charge of trying to mop up. Mop up might not necessarily be the right word, given the extent of the potential dangers there. But the British forces apparently have the major responsibility now of taking control of that second largest city in Iraq, Basra.

Let's bring in Miles O'Brien for some analysis.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Wolf. It's just one of some rather perplexing moves, perhaps to some, that we're witnessing right now, as we're reporting on it in real-time, trying to give you instant analysis and perspective with the help of retire Major General Don Shepherd of the U.S. Air Force.

Let's start in Basra. We put a big red arrow there, indicating that southeast movement, possibly a tactical retreat. We don't know. It doesn't, on the face of it, make a lot of sense. What do you think?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPHERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): It doesn't make a lot of sense, although the retreat portion does. If the population in Basra is rising up against the remaining Iraqi forces and the Fedayeen in Basra, that would make sense. They have no place to go other than southeast. They can't go north. The British basically have this entire sector under their responsibility, and the Marines are moving north now.

O'BRIEN: And Umm Qasr is under coalition control. So, clearly, what we're talking about here does not appear to be an offensive move in the classic sense.

SHEPHERD: And you've got to be very careful about these tactical reports that come out. People, you know, multiply the vehicles that they see in the fog of war here. And so you've got to be very, very careful to put it together over time.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's keep that in mind as we continue this discussion. Let's move on to Baghdad now and talk about this marketplace explosion. We'll just call it an explosion because there are so many possibilities. First of all, I want to show you the neighborhood, if we could look at some of our satellite imagery, courtesy of EarthView.com and our friends at Digital Globe.

As we zoom in on this Al-Shaab neighborhood, just across the Tigris River from the information ministry, which we've been telling you an awful lot about, it's this neighborhood right in here. And in that spot is a marketplace that was where this explosion occurred. Now, what are the possibilities? There are any number of them. Lay them out for us.

SHEPHERD: Right. The possibilities are we could have been targeting missile sites in that vicinity and one of the weapons, such as a Tomahawk or a Cruise Launch Missile went array. That's one possibility.

O'BRIEN: All right.

SHEPHERD: Another possibility is that it could be a surface-to- air missile site that they fired, of course, and it basically fell into that neighborhood or AAA into that neighborhood. It could be a malfunction...

O'BRIEN: Anti-aircraft fire.

SHEPHERD: Anti-aircraft fire. It could be a malfunctioning weapon or a weapon, such as a Tomahawk Missile that was shot. We saw one of those in one of the previous strikes go into the Al-Rashid Hotel several years ago.

O'BRIEN: Back in '91. Let's look quickly at the Tomahawk Missile. We'll tell you a little bit about it. We've told you an awful lot about its precision, tomahawk precision. It's satellite guided, terrain guided, has 1,000-mile range, can be launched. This particular one is launched off of Navy vessels, but there's another version, a derivative of it that goes off of B-52s, extremely accurate, if everything goes well. Of course, if things happen to it, if it's shot, certainly it could be redirected.

Let's move on to the south and talk about what's going on here where we just heard from Walter Rodgers within the hour with the 3-7th Cav, the very pointy end of this blue arrow right here, indicating this thrust of some kind out of Baghdad of Republican Guard armor. How big a thrust is it, do you suppose?

SHEPHERD: Well, the reports are that it is a 1,000 vehicles and is moving rapidly south out of Baghdad. Again, these are tactical reports, got to confirm them.

Now, the good news is that if this is true, we have F-15E aircraft from the Air Force that can operate in bad weather, such as the sandstorms, with radar and very precision munitions and be employed against those type of columns.

In addition, the weather is supposed to be clearing. And if it does, then F-16, F-18, AV-8V and A-10 aircraft can be employed in close air support against these elements.

O'BRIEN: All right. But is it accurate to say, when the weather goes down like this, some of the U.S. advantage, the air advantage goes away?

SHEPHERD: Indeed it does. No question about it, bad weather hampers air attacks. And it hampers air attacks by helicopters and also by fixed wing.

O'BRIEN: And so this would be, if you're a planner for the Iraqis, this would be a good time to move armor.

SHEPHERD: It would be a smart time to move in a big sandstorm, which you know the limited visibility limits particularly helicopter operations.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's look quickly at the 3-7th Cav, give you an idea of who's on the ground there. The 3-7th Cav, been at the Vanguard all throughout this event, based at Ft. Stewart Georgia.

The -37th Cav is sort of the lead for the 3rd Infantry Division.

SHEPHERD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Obviously, a storied outfit going back to General Custer's outfit. At the core of is the M1-A1 Abrams Tank, which was involved in all kinds of activity in between Najaf and Karbala. A couple of those tanks were disabled. That is historic. That's never happened in battle.

SHEPHERD: Yes, indeed. These -- the equipment they're using, these scouting vehicles, are the M1 Abrams Tank, the M3 Scout Vehicle, the M2 Abrams. All of those are elements there. The Kiowa Warriors precede them, if they can fly to scout. They also can get Apache Helicopters and what have you. But the tanks were probably attacked by an AT-3 Sager-type missile from a previous Soviet missile -- anti- tank missile.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quickly, those are often mounted on BPM-1s. We have a quick card to show you briefly about that. But this anti- tank weapon, wire-guided, and this Abrams Tank, for all its strength, can be disabled. It's not impervious.

We should point out the four-person crews, in each case, walked away from those engagements.

SHEPHERD: Yes. Heavily armored vehicle. If you hit it in the right place, you can do damage. BPM-1, 2s and 3s, they can mount these AT-3 Saggers and AT-4 Spigots on these. And if you hit it on the tread or something of that sort, you can knock the tread off, but then that tank can go back be repaired by repair crews if they want.

O'BRIEN: OK. Lots to keep track of. Thanks for helping us sort it out -- Don Shepherd, we appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com