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Military Begins Push to Iraq

Aired April 02, 2003 - 14:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Karl Penhaul is deep inside Iraq right now. Tell us what is happening where you are.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The only thing happening here is...

BLITZER: Karl, I don't know if you can hear me. It's Wolf Blitzer in Kuwait City. Karl, can you hear me, if you can, tell us what you're seeing, what you're hearing.

PENHAUL: The big news today has obviously been a push beyond the Karbala gap. Beyond that, we heard from Pentagon sources that it was supposed to then be a slow and systematic advance towards Baghdad. In fact, what seems to have happened is this has turned into a race towards Baghdad. Tanks and the bradley fighting vehicles of the 3rd Infantry Division were there on the ground. They were being supported in the air by apache attack helicopters of the 11th Aviation Regiment. And initially, we were told by U.S. commanders here that the tanks were maneuvering forward. But later in the day we were told that they were rolling forward. I understand now that those tanks and 3rd I.D. units are just within miles of the south of Baghdad. And military intelligence and other U.S. commanders here have told me that we could quite well be, by the early hours of this morning or by the early hours the coming morning, that U.S. troops are in the southern outskirts of Baghdad itself. Wolf.

BLITZER: Where are you relatively speaking to Baghdad, Karl?

PENHAUL: I'm essentially in the rear area, Wolf. I'm at the base of the 11th Aviation Regiment is set up. But the pilots that have been supporting the push forward by the 3rd Infantry Division have been flying back and forth to this place during the day, particularly to get repairs for those aircraft that have seen fire, that have taken Iraqi ground fire. I talked to the pilots of one apache attack helicopter and ground fire had gone through the first apex canopy of their cockpit narrowly missing one of the pilots. Another bullet came through the back and started a small fire filling the cockpit with smoke before the automatic systems within the aircraft extinguished that fire. They, by all accounts, had a lucky escape but came back to the base, repaired the aircraft and are now again back into the fight. Wolf.

BLITZER: So, clearly, the Iraqis still have anti-aircraft fire capability. They're still putting up a significant fight, at least based on the reports you're getting. Is that right, Karl? PENHAUL: Not really, Wolf. The pilots told me that the fire that they received was from small arms fire. So, essentially, from assault rifles, that type of thing. They say that they did fly over a number of artillery pieces, either destroying them on the way or leaving the tanks and the bradleys to destroy them. And, in fact, U.S. commanders here have said that resistance by Iraqi forces in that area was a lot lighter than expected. And that's what's permitted the speed of the advance toward Baghdad, which is really outstripped the expectations of most of the commanders and certainly those Pentagon sources who said the advance to Baghdad from here on in would be slow and systematic.

BLITZER: Karl, what about the fear of crossing that so-called imaginary red line, that that could trigger Iraqi use of chemical weapons? That doesn't appear to have happened, doesn't look like it's happened. But with the troops that you're covering, how concerned are they of that nightmare scenario, if you will?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly, Wolf, it was the U.S. Military Intelligence guys that had raised awareness of the so-called red line. That, we understand, was situated just north of the city of Karbala, the city that fell in fighting last night. But, again, the troops here have been consistently aware of the threat of chemical and biological attacks. There have been repeated Iraqi missile alerts both when the troops were still back in northern Kuwait and now that they're in more forward positions. Even this morning, there was an alert for a possible chemical attack. That was before dawn this morning. And so troops are used to that. So the fact of crossing this red line, although they're slightly more aware, I don't think -- I haven't seen any signs that they're holding back because of that, Wolf. Certainly there has been no evidence in the fighting today that the Iraqis have used any chemical weapons. Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl, one more question before I let you go. We heard from the Pentagon briefer a little while ago that U.S. troops were now some 30 miles on the outskirts of Baghdad, 30 miles away from Baghdad. What you seem to be reporting -- and I want you to be precise -- as precise as you can be, obviously -- is that they may be even closer than that to the outskirts of Baghdad. Is that what I heard you suggest in your report a little -- a few minutes ago?

PENHAUL: That's correct, Wolf. I think that it's safe to say -- and because the Iraqis obviously know where the lead points of the U.S. Forces are right now, my understanding is that U.S. Forces are as close as 15 miles from the south -- the southern edge of Baghdad. I'm told by U.S. Commanders -- they haven't given a precise time line -- but have said by the early hours of this morning that U.S. Forces could actually be in the outskirts of Baghdad. Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a headline right there Karl Penhaul, one of our embedded reporters, suggesting -- reporting now that perhaps 15 miles, U.S. Forces outside of Baghdad. And by day break, which is not that far away from now, perhaps even closer in the outskirts of Baghdad. We'll be checking back with you. Karl Penhaul, CNN's Karl Penhaul. Thanks very much. As the coalition advances towards Baghdad, the Pentagon is describing the Iraqi forces in the city as no longer all that credible on a day when Saddam Hussein is issuing yet another statement on Iraqi television. Let's check in with CNN's Nic Robertson live from Ruwaishid in Jordan. That's right across the border from Iraq. Nic, tell us, first of all, about this appearance, this videotape of Saddam Hussein once again on Iraqi television.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. He was appearing with his -- with the Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz with the Vice President Taha Yasin Ramadan, other ministers as well. Not clear when the videotape was taken. President Saddam Hussein seemed to be relaxed dressed in military uniform. Probably one of the key things, his younger son, Qusay Saddam Hussein was not present at that meeting. Qusay Saddam Hussein is in charge of not only the Republican Guard units but also the defense of the whole of central Iraq including Baghdad so perhaps significant that he was not present at that particular meeting. The latest statement coming from President Saddam Hussein, again for the second night in a row being read by his information minister is directly a threat to Jamal Talabani, one of the Kurdish leaders in the north telling him not to back the coalition forces at this time and warning him against doing so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It is becoming increasingly becoming to welcome the troops to open a northern front against the army and the people of Iraq. In order to alleviate the trouble they are facing in the southern front for their casualties, who everybody knows in the world. It is my duty and my model duty and my constitutional duty to warn you how dangerous is this game. If you surrender and continue this path. Regardless how problems and differences between our two peoples, we have one history and one country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, that's the second statement from President Saddam Hussein today. Earlier in the day, there was another announcement from the president read on television by a news anchor dressed in military uniform. This statement said -- told Iraqis that victory was close at hand, that Iraq's 11th Division and the Baath Party fighters had fought well in Nasirayah, in the south of Iraq, that the Iraqi forces were doing well. That they had only used one third of the army so far but that coalition forces already expended all their forces and had already used up everything that they had sent into the country again against Iraq. That was the position -- that was the message from President Saddam Hussein. Also a decree coming from the Iraqi leader today promising money to any Iraqi who turns in spies who are helping the coalition forces at this time. And we've heard also from Minister, Information Minister Sahaf as well saying coalition forces are not really close to Baghdad, that they haven't crossed the Tigris River and it is all an illusion being created by the Pentagon. Wolf. BLITZER: Nic, this latest videotape of Saddam Hussein with his senior advisers that was shown on Iraqi television tonight, there is no way of knowing when that was done. It could have been done months ago, could have been done weeks ago. Then again, it could have been done since the war started. What leads many U.S. analysts to be suspicious that it's a new videotape is the fact that if in fact there was a camera there it would be easy to put a microphone in front of that camera and let him say something that suggested, yes, he is alive. Is there a sense, as you look at this tape, that it could be an old tape that they just released to try to rally the troops, if you will?

ROBERTSON: There is that potential. This is President Saddam Hussein wearing a military uniform and he didn't start doing that publicly for television purposes at least until the war began. So I think perhaps if you analyze it in that light unless the theater has been planned well in advance, that's not the case. Wolf, I have to say it's quite typical for Iraqi newscast to put a camera in the room with President Saddam Hussein and his ministers, then not broadcast any of the sound. This is quite typical. But, again, it begs that question, if you can get a camera in the room with President Saddam Hussein, why not give him a microphone? Why not allow him to give some of the statements being read by the information minister? So it does beg the question of when exactly were these videotapes taken. But it is not -- this won't come across as unusual to the Iraqi people at least, because they are used to seeing the ministers and President Saddam Hussein together without actually hearing or even knowing fully what's been said at the meeting, Wolf.

BLITZER: Because, as you know Nic, if he were going to speak and he did make a reference to some current, some contemporary events on the battlefield or whatever, that would clarify -- that would clear up the mystery whether he's alive or dead or injured or whatever. And one of the things that you were pointing out yesterday and other analysts were pointing out that for security reasons, they might not want to get a camera crew to where he is, since the U.S. is trying to kill him at this point. But if there is a camera crew there, it would be easy to just mic him up and let him talk. But obviously, that did not happen. Nic robertson, he's monitoring this situation for all of us. He's joining us from the border of Iraq and Jordan. Nic, thanks very much. We'll be checking back with you very, very soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired April 2, 2003 - 14:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Karl Penhaul is deep inside Iraq right now. Tell us what is happening where you are.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The only thing happening here is...

BLITZER: Karl, I don't know if you can hear me. It's Wolf Blitzer in Kuwait City. Karl, can you hear me, if you can, tell us what you're seeing, what you're hearing.

PENHAUL: The big news today has obviously been a push beyond the Karbala gap. Beyond that, we heard from Pentagon sources that it was supposed to then be a slow and systematic advance towards Baghdad. In fact, what seems to have happened is this has turned into a race towards Baghdad. Tanks and the bradley fighting vehicles of the 3rd Infantry Division were there on the ground. They were being supported in the air by apache attack helicopters of the 11th Aviation Regiment. And initially, we were told by U.S. commanders here that the tanks were maneuvering forward. But later in the day we were told that they were rolling forward. I understand now that those tanks and 3rd I.D. units are just within miles of the south of Baghdad. And military intelligence and other U.S. commanders here have told me that we could quite well be, by the early hours of this morning or by the early hours the coming morning, that U.S. troops are in the southern outskirts of Baghdad itself. Wolf.

BLITZER: Where are you relatively speaking to Baghdad, Karl?

PENHAUL: I'm essentially in the rear area, Wolf. I'm at the base of the 11th Aviation Regiment is set up. But the pilots that have been supporting the push forward by the 3rd Infantry Division have been flying back and forth to this place during the day, particularly to get repairs for those aircraft that have seen fire, that have taken Iraqi ground fire. I talked to the pilots of one apache attack helicopter and ground fire had gone through the first apex canopy of their cockpit narrowly missing one of the pilots. Another bullet came through the back and started a small fire filling the cockpit with smoke before the automatic systems within the aircraft extinguished that fire. They, by all accounts, had a lucky escape but came back to the base, repaired the aircraft and are now again back into the fight. Wolf.

BLITZER: So, clearly, the Iraqis still have anti-aircraft fire capability. They're still putting up a significant fight, at least based on the reports you're getting. Is that right, Karl? PENHAUL: Not really, Wolf. The pilots told me that the fire that they received was from small arms fire. So, essentially, from assault rifles, that type of thing. They say that they did fly over a number of artillery pieces, either destroying them on the way or leaving the tanks and the bradleys to destroy them. And, in fact, U.S. commanders here have said that resistance by Iraqi forces in that area was a lot lighter than expected. And that's what's permitted the speed of the advance toward Baghdad, which is really outstripped the expectations of most of the commanders and certainly those Pentagon sources who said the advance to Baghdad from here on in would be slow and systematic.

BLITZER: Karl, what about the fear of crossing that so-called imaginary red line, that that could trigger Iraqi use of chemical weapons? That doesn't appear to have happened, doesn't look like it's happened. But with the troops that you're covering, how concerned are they of that nightmare scenario, if you will?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly, Wolf, it was the U.S. Military Intelligence guys that had raised awareness of the so-called red line. That, we understand, was situated just north of the city of Karbala, the city that fell in fighting last night. But, again, the troops here have been consistently aware of the threat of chemical and biological attacks. There have been repeated Iraqi missile alerts both when the troops were still back in northern Kuwait and now that they're in more forward positions. Even this morning, there was an alert for a possible chemical attack. That was before dawn this morning. And so troops are used to that. So the fact of crossing this red line, although they're slightly more aware, I don't think -- I haven't seen any signs that they're holding back because of that, Wolf. Certainly there has been no evidence in the fighting today that the Iraqis have used any chemical weapons. Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl, one more question before I let you go. We heard from the Pentagon briefer a little while ago that U.S. troops were now some 30 miles on the outskirts of Baghdad, 30 miles away from Baghdad. What you seem to be reporting -- and I want you to be precise -- as precise as you can be, obviously -- is that they may be even closer than that to the outskirts of Baghdad. Is that what I heard you suggest in your report a little -- a few minutes ago?

PENHAUL: That's correct, Wolf. I think that it's safe to say -- and because the Iraqis obviously know where the lead points of the U.S. Forces are right now, my understanding is that U.S. Forces are as close as 15 miles from the south -- the southern edge of Baghdad. I'm told by U.S. Commanders -- they haven't given a precise time line -- but have said by the early hours of this morning that U.S. Forces could actually be in the outskirts of Baghdad. Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a headline right there Karl Penhaul, one of our embedded reporters, suggesting -- reporting now that perhaps 15 miles, U.S. Forces outside of Baghdad. And by day break, which is not that far away from now, perhaps even closer in the outskirts of Baghdad. We'll be checking back with you. Karl Penhaul, CNN's Karl Penhaul. Thanks very much. As the coalition advances towards Baghdad, the Pentagon is describing the Iraqi forces in the city as no longer all that credible on a day when Saddam Hussein is issuing yet another statement on Iraqi television. Let's check in with CNN's Nic Robertson live from Ruwaishid in Jordan. That's right across the border from Iraq. Nic, tell us, first of all, about this appearance, this videotape of Saddam Hussein once again on Iraqi television.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. He was appearing with his -- with the Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz with the Vice President Taha Yasin Ramadan, other ministers as well. Not clear when the videotape was taken. President Saddam Hussein seemed to be relaxed dressed in military uniform. Probably one of the key things, his younger son, Qusay Saddam Hussein was not present at that meeting. Qusay Saddam Hussein is in charge of not only the Republican Guard units but also the defense of the whole of central Iraq including Baghdad so perhaps significant that he was not present at that particular meeting. The latest statement coming from President Saddam Hussein, again for the second night in a row being read by his information minister is directly a threat to Jamal Talabani, one of the Kurdish leaders in the north telling him not to back the coalition forces at this time and warning him against doing so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It is becoming increasingly becoming to welcome the troops to open a northern front against the army and the people of Iraq. In order to alleviate the trouble they are facing in the southern front for their casualties, who everybody knows in the world. It is my duty and my model duty and my constitutional duty to warn you how dangerous is this game. If you surrender and continue this path. Regardless how problems and differences between our two peoples, we have one history and one country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, that's the second statement from President Saddam Hussein today. Earlier in the day, there was another announcement from the president read on television by a news anchor dressed in military uniform. This statement said -- told Iraqis that victory was close at hand, that Iraq's 11th Division and the Baath Party fighters had fought well in Nasirayah, in the south of Iraq, that the Iraqi forces were doing well. That they had only used one third of the army so far but that coalition forces already expended all their forces and had already used up everything that they had sent into the country again against Iraq. That was the position -- that was the message from President Saddam Hussein. Also a decree coming from the Iraqi leader today promising money to any Iraqi who turns in spies who are helping the coalition forces at this time. And we've heard also from Minister, Information Minister Sahaf as well saying coalition forces are not really close to Baghdad, that they haven't crossed the Tigris River and it is all an illusion being created by the Pentagon. Wolf. BLITZER: Nic, this latest videotape of Saddam Hussein with his senior advisers that was shown on Iraqi television tonight, there is no way of knowing when that was done. It could have been done months ago, could have been done weeks ago. Then again, it could have been done since the war started. What leads many U.S. analysts to be suspicious that it's a new videotape is the fact that if in fact there was a camera there it would be easy to put a microphone in front of that camera and let him say something that suggested, yes, he is alive. Is there a sense, as you look at this tape, that it could be an old tape that they just released to try to rally the troops, if you will?

ROBERTSON: There is that potential. This is President Saddam Hussein wearing a military uniform and he didn't start doing that publicly for television purposes at least until the war began. So I think perhaps if you analyze it in that light unless the theater has been planned well in advance, that's not the case. Wolf, I have to say it's quite typical for Iraqi newscast to put a camera in the room with President Saddam Hussein and his ministers, then not broadcast any of the sound. This is quite typical. But, again, it begs that question, if you can get a camera in the room with President Saddam Hussein, why not give him a microphone? Why not allow him to give some of the statements being read by the information minister? So it does beg the question of when exactly were these videotapes taken. But it is not -- this won't come across as unusual to the Iraqi people at least, because they are used to seeing the ministers and President Saddam Hussein together without actually hearing or even knowing fully what's been said at the meeting, Wolf.

BLITZER: Because, as you know Nic, if he were going to speak and he did make a reference to some current, some contemporary events on the battlefield or whatever, that would clarify -- that would clear up the mystery whether he's alive or dead or injured or whatever. And one of the things that you were pointing out yesterday and other analysts were pointing out that for security reasons, they might not want to get a camera crew to where he is, since the U.S. is trying to kill him at this point. But if there is a camera crew there, it would be easy to just mic him up and let him talk. But obviously, that did not happen. Nic robertson, he's monitoring this situation for all of us. He's joining us from the border of Iraq and Jordan. Nic, thanks very much. We'll be checking back with you very, very soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com