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Analysis of New Hussein Tapes With Author Con Coughlin
Aired April 04, 2003 - 13:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I'm hearing that we have with us now Con Coughlin, who has written a book and has studied Saddam Hussein. The book is called "King of Terror".
Mr. Coughlin, you've written about Saddam, you've studied him. What do you make of these -- this video?
CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "KING OF TERROR": Well I must say, it's a surprise. I didn't -- I thought we might see some prerecords of Saddam giving addresses to the nation, but I never expected to see him walking about. And, you know, whether it's really Saddam or a double we won't know for the moment. Although, I must say, it does look like Saddam. And this is very much the kind of thing he does.
And, of course, you know, there is this incredible and quite fascinating game of psychological warfare going on between Baghdad and Washington, with Rumsfeld and people saying, hey, come on, Saddam, show your face. Saddam basically keeping a low profile because he doesn't want to be attacked again as he was in the first hour of the war. And then suddenly we see this. So, it's a fascinating game, really.
WOODRUFF: Con -- we're talking with Con Coughlin who has written a book - Coughlin has written a book about Saddam as we show you live pictures of the nighttime skies over Baghdad where there has been some anti-aircraft tracer fire in the last few moments. We're showing you live Baghdad right now. There you see it -- downtown Baghdad tonight.
We have been showing you the video that was shot earlier in the day of pictures of a man who purports to be Saddam Hussein. As we watch the live pictures, Con Coughlin, you're still with us. You said this looks like Saddam Hussein to you, the pictures we were just showing. Why does it look like him?
COUGHLIN: Well because in it - first of all, I saw something a bit earlier today when he was given a statement. And then we've seen him running around - well, not running around, walking around with a crowd. And it just has Saddam's bearing and it's just the way Saddam reads people. I mean, I do know that the doubles, when they appear, basically appear for staged events, where they open supermarkets and things like that.
I'd be very surprised if a double is going to do something like this when the city's being bombarded. You can clearly see the smoke from the oil fires in the background. I have to say in all probability I'd say this is Saddam. WOODRUFF: Pictures on the left, from some hours ago during the daylight hours in Baghdad, from Iraqi television, pictures that appear to show Saddam Hussein. We're all looking at them very closely, trying to determine if that is, indeed, the Iraqi leader. But we're also looking at these live pictures coming in tonight from Baghdad, where as you can see it's 10:20, a little after 10:00 at night, dark. The city is still without electricity. The lights are out over the entire city area.
They've been out for a day now, and we've been watching anti- aircraft fire trying to determine just what is going on in that area. We know that coalition forces, U.S. forces are all but in control of the airport about 12 miles southwest of the city. And at this point, we don't know how much closer coalition forces are. Of course, we know special operations forces have been in the city, but we don't know how much, if any closer ground combat troops may be getting to the city. Con Coughlin, I want to bring you back in again.
COUGHLIN: Yes, hi.
WOODRUFF: I'm sure you heard - or maybe you didn't -- some of our analysts observing Saddam Hussein or the man who appears to be Saddam Hussein, saying that they have a hard time imagining that he would let people so -- get so close to him, kiss him on the cheek, brush up against him and so forth, that this is not like him. But you said it does appear to be him, his mannerisms and so forth.
COUGHLIN: Yes. Well, he has done this in the past and you have -- I mean if you look closely at the pictures, he is surrounded by Baathist goons making sure that, you know, the whole thing is under control. I would also say that this would be a very carefully selective (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I mean, these people would all be Baath Party members, and these are people that they know they can trust.
So -- as I say, Saddam has done this in the past. I mean, it is just -- it is, you know, I'd say surprising, I must say, to see him strolling around like this. Although I must say, as somebody who has said that Saddam is still alive all along, I suppose I'm rather pleased to see that I was proved correct.
WOODRUFF: We're watching anti-aircraft fire, tracer fire over the city of Baghdad. Live pictures right now over Baghdad on the right. On the left, those daylight pictures from Baghdad earlier today, we presume earlier today, with a man who appears to be -- there's an explosion in Baghdad. Again, it's getting close to 10:30 at night in Baghdad, in Iraq's capital city.
You heard it just as we did. Again, the electricity out in the capital city. It's been out for over a day. Residents of that city reported to be leaving by the thousands. We've seen reports that people are walking and in their cars and leaving the city. Many of them headed east, presumably fearing the battle to come. Wolf, the action has not slowed down.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It sounds like anti-aircraft fire that we're hearing, but it was a pretty loud explosion that we heard and then we saw something dropping from the sky. We're obviously seeing a lot of activity in the Iraqi capital right now -- some of those tracer fires. There it goes again, another huge, huge blast. No letup whatsoever as far as U.S. efforts, the Iraqis are maybe encircled to a large degree around their capital and U.S. forces may be in charge of the Iraqi International Airport, what used to be called Saddam International Airport, now what the U.S. is calling the Baghdad International Airport.
But these live pictures and these explosions that we just heard, Judy, all of our viewers heard it, the flashes that we're seeing seems to suggest that there's no letup, even as the power remains out over Baghdad -- no electricity no lights for the second night in a row. The developments, I got to tell you, are pretty fast and furious as we're watching what's happening in Baghdad right now, and as we're waiting for a Pentagon briefing that's supposed to begin in the next few moments as well.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 4, 2003 - 13:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I'm hearing that we have with us now Con Coughlin, who has written a book and has studied Saddam Hussein. The book is called "King of Terror".
Mr. Coughlin, you've written about Saddam, you've studied him. What do you make of these -- this video?
CON COUGHLIN, AUTHOR, "KING OF TERROR": Well I must say, it's a surprise. I didn't -- I thought we might see some prerecords of Saddam giving addresses to the nation, but I never expected to see him walking about. And, you know, whether it's really Saddam or a double we won't know for the moment. Although, I must say, it does look like Saddam. And this is very much the kind of thing he does.
And, of course, you know, there is this incredible and quite fascinating game of psychological warfare going on between Baghdad and Washington, with Rumsfeld and people saying, hey, come on, Saddam, show your face. Saddam basically keeping a low profile because he doesn't want to be attacked again as he was in the first hour of the war. And then suddenly we see this. So, it's a fascinating game, really.
WOODRUFF: Con -- we're talking with Con Coughlin who has written a book - Coughlin has written a book about Saddam as we show you live pictures of the nighttime skies over Baghdad where there has been some anti-aircraft tracer fire in the last few moments. We're showing you live Baghdad right now. There you see it -- downtown Baghdad tonight.
We have been showing you the video that was shot earlier in the day of pictures of a man who purports to be Saddam Hussein. As we watch the live pictures, Con Coughlin, you're still with us. You said this looks like Saddam Hussein to you, the pictures we were just showing. Why does it look like him?
COUGHLIN: Well because in it - first of all, I saw something a bit earlier today when he was given a statement. And then we've seen him running around - well, not running around, walking around with a crowd. And it just has Saddam's bearing and it's just the way Saddam reads people. I mean, I do know that the doubles, when they appear, basically appear for staged events, where they open supermarkets and things like that.
I'd be very surprised if a double is going to do something like this when the city's being bombarded. You can clearly see the smoke from the oil fires in the background. I have to say in all probability I'd say this is Saddam. WOODRUFF: Pictures on the left, from some hours ago during the daylight hours in Baghdad, from Iraqi television, pictures that appear to show Saddam Hussein. We're all looking at them very closely, trying to determine if that is, indeed, the Iraqi leader. But we're also looking at these live pictures coming in tonight from Baghdad, where as you can see it's 10:20, a little after 10:00 at night, dark. The city is still without electricity. The lights are out over the entire city area.
They've been out for a day now, and we've been watching anti- aircraft fire trying to determine just what is going on in that area. We know that coalition forces, U.S. forces are all but in control of the airport about 12 miles southwest of the city. And at this point, we don't know how much closer coalition forces are. Of course, we know special operations forces have been in the city, but we don't know how much, if any closer ground combat troops may be getting to the city. Con Coughlin, I want to bring you back in again.
COUGHLIN: Yes, hi.
WOODRUFF: I'm sure you heard - or maybe you didn't -- some of our analysts observing Saddam Hussein or the man who appears to be Saddam Hussein, saying that they have a hard time imagining that he would let people so -- get so close to him, kiss him on the cheek, brush up against him and so forth, that this is not like him. But you said it does appear to be him, his mannerisms and so forth.
COUGHLIN: Yes. Well, he has done this in the past and you have -- I mean if you look closely at the pictures, he is surrounded by Baathist goons making sure that, you know, the whole thing is under control. I would also say that this would be a very carefully selective (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I mean, these people would all be Baath Party members, and these are people that they know they can trust.
So -- as I say, Saddam has done this in the past. I mean, it is just -- it is, you know, I'd say surprising, I must say, to see him strolling around like this. Although I must say, as somebody who has said that Saddam is still alive all along, I suppose I'm rather pleased to see that I was proved correct.
WOODRUFF: We're watching anti-aircraft fire, tracer fire over the city of Baghdad. Live pictures right now over Baghdad on the right. On the left, those daylight pictures from Baghdad earlier today, we presume earlier today, with a man who appears to be -- there's an explosion in Baghdad. Again, it's getting close to 10:30 at night in Baghdad, in Iraq's capital city.
You heard it just as we did. Again, the electricity out in the capital city. It's been out for over a day. Residents of that city reported to be leaving by the thousands. We've seen reports that people are walking and in their cars and leaving the city. Many of them headed east, presumably fearing the battle to come. Wolf, the action has not slowed down.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It sounds like anti-aircraft fire that we're hearing, but it was a pretty loud explosion that we heard and then we saw something dropping from the sky. We're obviously seeing a lot of activity in the Iraqi capital right now -- some of those tracer fires. There it goes again, another huge, huge blast. No letup whatsoever as far as U.S. efforts, the Iraqis are maybe encircled to a large degree around their capital and U.S. forces may be in charge of the Iraqi International Airport, what used to be called Saddam International Airport, now what the U.S. is calling the Baghdad International Airport.
But these live pictures and these explosions that we just heard, Judy, all of our viewers heard it, the flashes that we're seeing seems to suggest that there's no letup, even as the power remains out over Baghdad -- no electricity no lights for the second night in a row. The developments, I got to tell you, are pretty fast and furious as we're watching what's happening in Baghdad right now, and as we're waiting for a Pentagon briefing that's supposed to begin in the next few moments as well.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
