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Special Edition: War in Iraq Part III

Aired April 05, 2003 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon to our viewers in North America. Good evening, from here in Kuwait City, where it's just after 9:00 p.m., just after 10:00 p.m. in Baghdad, where the news is being made this Saturday, April 5. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: And from CNN studios in Washington, I'm Judy Woodruff. Coming up this hour, the battle inside Baghdad. Coalition troops said to be in the Iraqi capital, a close look at the new tactics in urban combat.

Getting water to a thirsty city. Our Richard Blystone shows us how checkpoints, and believe it or not, paper works are delaying humanitarian efforts. And the war in Iraq from a soldier's point of view. At the front lines with a member of 101st Airborne. Now, back to Wolf in Kuwait City.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. And you are looking at a live picture right now of the skies over Baghdad. Coalition forces have moved into the center of the city. Let's look at some of the major developments in the battle unfolding right now.

U.S. troops pushed into downtown Baghdad earlier today, encountering what was described as only sporadic resistance. And sources are telling the CNN's Nic Robertson, they have spotted U.S. troops near the city's center at the Saddam Bridge next to Baghdad University, about a mile from Saddam Hussein's palace.

Some sights and sounds from the encounter of U.S. soldiers with Saddam Hussein's elite Republican Guard units. The Associated Press reports this attack by the 3rd Infantry Division was on a barracks in the suburbs southwest of Baghdad.

And to the south in Basra, U.S.-led coalition aircraft have struck the home of an Iraqi general known as Chemical Ali, the man who allegedly ordered Iraqi forces to use chemical weapons against Kurds in northern Iraq in 1988. No damage report yet from the U.S. Central Command on that attack.

What's next in the battle for Baghdad? Joining me now from the Pentagon, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, what are they saying there?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Wolf. What you hear here today is that the Baghdad portion of the war plan is now fully under way. Of course, the first step coming earlier today with that probe by U.S. Army units, with their Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles towards the center of town. They came up from the south and swung around to the west out to the airport region.

This probe is going to be the first of many. It will be to send a message to the regime that they no longer control the capital, but they will have another benefit, we are told. They will provide reconnaissance and intelligence, telling U.S. forces of the reaction they get in the city, trying to identify where the opposition may be, and look for enemy weapons.

Now to that end, another portion of the Baghdad portion of the war plan began today. There is now what is called urban close air support over the city. And what we are talking about is 24/seven fighters and bombers patrolling over Baghdad on standby to be called in for strike missions, especially to protect those U.S. forces at -- on the ground as they conduct those probes. This will include fixed wing aircraft, fighters, bombers and support aircraft. There will also be from the Navy and Air Force airborne forward air controllers, specifically to earmark out targets and point them out.

General Mike Mosley, the head of the coalition air forces, spoke to reporters by telephone earlier today from his headquarters in Saudi Arabia, talking about how this new phase of the air campaign will work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL MOSLEY: The trick is to use, if you have to do this, is to use the smallest munition possible to get the maximum effect so that you don't create those unnecessary loss of civilian life or property.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Now, what General Mosley is saying here, these will be very specialized air combat packages, preloaded with munitions specifically to strike enemy targets in the heart of Baghdad, missile launchers, anti-aircraft artillery, while still trying to minimize the impact on civilians and residential neighborhoods in the capital -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara, with this new mission for U.S. air power, I assume that that huge airport, what used to be called Saddam International Airport, Saddam Airport, now called Baghdad International Airport, I assume that airport could be very, very useful. How long will it take, according to your sources, to get those two runways up and running, or at least one of them up and running for U.S. aircraft?

STARR: Well, you know, Wolf, they could clean off that runway fairly quickly, and begin operating out of there, but there's still this other side to the equation. They don't know if they have really cleaned out the anti-aircraft artillery, the surface-to-air missile launchers, the radars and other portions of the air defense system completely out of Baghdad. They need to find out where all of this stuff is in the city before they can really start flying fixed wing aircraft to any great extent out of that airport, because of course they would be very vulnerable because the airport is so close to town, to those kinds of weapons during their takeoffs and landings.

So this is still likely to take place for some time from aircraft carriers, from forward air bases. They are going to clean off that runway, and that's going to start being used eventually as a staging point for humanitarian assistance and other reinforcement of forces moving in and out. But they want to get this urban support air mission really going and make sure that they take out the threat first -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thanks, Barbara, very much. Let's go to Judy Woodruff back in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Wolf. It's interesting to think about that air war over Baghdad. Just reading an Associated Press report saying that the skies are now so congested, that some U.S. pilots are saying they are more worried about crashing into other coalition aircraft than they are about being hit by anti-aircraft fire from the ground, which they can generally predict. So very interesting development. All right, let's take a closer look now at the military campaign centered on Baghdad. Our Miles O'Brien, standing by in Atlanta -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Judy. And to guide us through this scenario on the ground there, we are joined by Lieutenant General Paul Funk, retired U.S. Army. He's out of Austin, Texas, with us today. General Funk, good to have you with us.

LT. GEN. PAUL FUNK, (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Miles. Good to be here.

O'BRIEN: Big picture, and while I am talking, I am going to zoom us down on the airport. The significance of that toe hold at that airport is obviously crucial. Do you have the sense that they have a firm footing there yet? And/or how long will that take before they can feel confident of kind of owning that piece of real estate?

FUNK: I think right now they own that piece of real estate, Miles, but they've got -- it's interesting, I heard the comment about congested air space, the cavalry unit there, the 3rd of the 7th Cavalry also has OH-58 Deltas, small helicopters with terrific reconnaissance package on board. They're going to be working in there too to help prevent surprise, and in fact, to help us surprise the enemy. But I think we've got pretty firm control, and I think you're going to see us continue to push out into the city just to see what resistance we find and what might be out there.

O'BRIEN: Now, while I was waiting for this segment to come out, I was hunting around and I found some anti-aircraft positions in the middle of this civilian airport ostensibly. This is an anti-aircraft site there in between the main runways. If you move down to the end, there is another anti-aircraft operation there. I guess we can presume now that those anti-aircraft sites are no longer threats to coalition warplanes. There you see the four to five positions there with those anti-aircraft operations on. There is one other to point out. How much does that give the coalition sort of the ability to fly over Baghdad with complete impunity?

FUNK: I think it's a terrific opportunity for the coalition, in that regard. You make a very good point. I believe that in the fighting last night, I heard something about one of the Cav squadron, the 3rd of the 7th Cav clearing that out. So I think we are in pretty good shape right now. However, it's worth pointing out that there are a number of the so-called man pads that one of your correspondents mentioned earlier, I think last night. There are a lot of those weapons around, which will shoot down aircraft. It's a missile fired by an individual soldier. So we still have to watch out for those kinds of things, too.

O'BRIEN: Well, and I guess the point is well-taken for those of us who remember the scenario of Mogadishu. All that was there was the rocket-propelled grenade that took down the Black Hawks and the dominoes started falling there. That's a difficult thing to defend against, isn't it?

FUNK: Yes, that's a very good point and a good analogy. And I assure you that all of us have thought about that since that time, and I know that the soldiers on the ground in the great 3rd Infantry are thinking of that, as are those super Marines. I think this is an important thing when you are that close to the earth, in fact, the helicopters are in particularly -- particularly vulnerable. We have to watch out for the man pad type of weapons. And even small arm's fire.

O'BRIEN: One final question here as we go down. This is one of the main expressways, not the airport road, but it's the Abu Gurayb Expressway (ph), which leads also into Baghdad. Clearly, the Iraqis can anticipate the armored columns will go down these roads. To what extent can they lay traps on these avenues, and to what extent can coalition forces guard against that?

FUNK: That's a very good point. I think what you'll see is that you'll use those aviation assets to try to move ahead of, and protect the armor moving down those roads. In addition to that, there will be dismounted infantry, if there's any sign of a defile or any sign of a trap.

The other thing that I didn't mention earlier, and the Abrams tank is well-equipped for. We've all worried about the chemical threat. The Abrams tank has an overpressure system, which allows the crew to operate for a period of time in a chemical environment. So you may very well see that that that's one of reasons why all of these operations will have the Abrams with it.

O'BRIEN: All right, one quick question I want to put in. If you could put on that satellite imagery. I want to show you a quick before and after. This is high over Baghdad, you're looking at an image that was shot, like, last year. This one was shot this past week. It shows very dramatically the effects of those oil fires. Just quickly, sir, because we are pretty much out of time, how much of an impact will this have on close air support and just troops on the ground having all of these oil fires there? FUNK: Certainly it will be a limiting factor, but not very much. The guys that are calling them in are pretty doggone skilled and pretty brave. I don't think it will be a real factor, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, it's dramatic but maybe not the factor that the Iraqis intended it to be. All right, General Paul Funk, thank you very much for your time, see you in a bit. And I send it back to Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles. And thanks to the general as well. We are getting a very, very different view from the Iraqi regime. Let's turn to our Rula Amin, she is in neighboring Jordan, she's been in touch with her sources inside the Iraqi capital. Rula, the official line from the Iraqi government remains defiant -- not only defiant, they say they're winning.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is defiant, very defiant, Wolf, and they have a completely different version of events from Baghdad. Now, there are more bombs falling on Baghdad. There was a huge explosion right next to the Palestine Hotel just in the past hour. This is the hotel where most of the journalists in Iraq are staying, and that's where the Iraqi information minister, Mohammed Saeed Al- Sahaf, have been giving his briefings and that's where he had been trying to refute U.S. claims that U.S. troops went inside the Iraqi capital today. Central Command says the troops went inside Baghdad on the reckon mission, then they left. The Iraqis all day long have been saying that is not true. When the pictures were out and we saw these pictures from a reliable source who said they were in Baghdad, the information minister insisted these pictures were not accurate. They were not in Baghdad. They were in an area at least 30 to 40 kilometers away from Baghdad, and he was very critical of all the media outlets that actually used these pictures without much scrutiny, because he says they are simply not true. This is the way he puts it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): These pictures have nothing to do with what happened last evening or today. We keep them out. We pulverized them, defeated them, and outside of the airport to the more open area in Abu Guaaryb (ph), and we surrounded them in Abu Guaaryb (ph). These pictures are not the outskirts of Baghdad. I repeat, these pictures have nothing to do with the city of Baghdad. These are far from Baghdad, at least 30, 40 kilometers away from Baghdad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMIN: Now, the information minister there is referring also to the airport development. The Iraqis are saying that their troops have managed to force the U.S. troops out of the airport after it has been taken over by the U.S. troops, that they had inflicted serious damage among the U.S. soldiers, including some were killed, some were taken as prisoners.

The Iraqi information minister insists it's the Republican Guards now who are in full control of the airport and of the capital. It's obvious both the Iraqi and U.S. officials are trying to have their own version there told to the Iraqi people. They both need to know that the Iraqi people are on their side in order to win this war -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rula, I am curious, you speak Arabic, you watch the Arabic satellite channels, Al-Arabiya, Abu Dhabi Television, Al Jazeera and all the others. How are they playing this very, very different assessment, one line coming from the U.S. military, a very different assessment coming from the Iraqi regime? How are the major Arab satellite television channels reporting all of this?

AMIN: Well, most of these channels have reporters on the scene in Baghdad and they have been reporting the Iraqi version. They have been hosting guests from Iraq -- from the Iraqi government. At same time, they do put the U.S. Central Command briefings on their air. Anything that comes out of Washington is reported.

However, you can tell that the analysts, the people they talk too, most of their guests have a wishful thinking. They are most of them are hoping that Iraq at least can put some kind of resistance for the U.S. war in Iraq. They believe very -- they are really very suspicious of the U.S. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they feel if Iraq manages to put some kind of resistance, then the U.S. wouldn't dare to do the same in other countries. This is the fear, that this is only one step. And if the U.S. wins its war in Iraq, there will be other Arab countries in line waiting for the same fate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rula Amin, covering this story for us from her base in Jordan. Rula, thanks very much.

Judy, let me throw it back to you and I'll just throw out this one notion -- very different from a dozen years ago, the first Gulf War. There were none of these Arab satellite channels reporting to the millions of people in all of the Arab world. Now, they're all watching these Arab satellite channels. It's having a significant impact in their understanding what's going on, their own perceptions. I guess, journalistic scholars are going to be reviewing the impact of these Arab channels in the years to come -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: That's right, Wolf, no doubt about it. And you also have the notion that back then, during the first Gulf War, you had a number of these Arab countries with the United States, trying to get Saddam Hussein and his forces out of Kuwait. This time around, it is very different. A number of the Arab countries siding, as you just heard from Rula, with the Iraqi leadership.

Well, right now, north of Baghdad, other troops are moving south. You have Kurds and Americans working together toward a common goal. CNN's Brent Sadler joins us from the northern front, and Brent, I heard you give a very interesting report last hour and reminding us that while we are all so focused on Baghdad, it isn't that the coalition has complete control of the rest of the country. There is still real fighting still going on in the north.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Judy. We are seeing this whole northern army of Saddam Hussein still fighting in parts of the northern front. Still holding on to those key northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul. I want to show you some pictures of developments here just in the past couple of hours. We have been able to take some exclusive pictures of some pretty tremendous air strikes by B-52s and F-15s against Iraqi front line positions in the southeast corner of the front line, about 100 miles or so from Baghdad. These pictures actually taken by Christen Stride (ph), my cameraman, with the forward air control of U.S. Special Forces. So really look inside how they operate, how they're bringing these air strikes down.

It was about a minute from the weapons being released from the B- 52 before they flew through the air and detonated a powerful explosion across those ridge lines. This -- the end of the day I spent here, really looking just how well that cooperation between Iraqi Kurds on the ground and U.S. Special Forces is working.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): A group of Iraqi Kurds manning this .50- caliber truck-mounted machine gun is heading south toward Baghdad. A little more than an hour's drive away. They are in high spirits, now believing, in what they have always thought was the unimaginable, the collapse of Saddam Hussein's rule, now that coalition forces have his regime in their gun sights. This is about as close to Baghdad as you can get from this sector of the northern front.

A remote Peshmerga outpost. This route south is blocked by Iraqi frontlines. Iraqi troops or it's thought Saddam Fedayeen irregular units holding this ridge line. The Iraqi Kurds have been biding their time here, casting cold stares toward their longtime enemy, awaiting the U.S. military's next move, a move which now appears to be taking shape. Special Forces prepare the ground for another wave of air strikes, pinpointing the range of targets and learning the lay of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is soldier Saddam Hussein.

SADLER: This Kurdish fighter says he knows the terrain like the back of his hand, and maps out position for his American allies with a small mosaic of stones.

(on camera): As encircling American forces close in on Baghdad, the capital is all but surrounded, except for approach or escape through the northeastern corridor. An unplugged gap that is unlikely to remain opened for very much longer.

(voice-over): The armed Iraqi opposition, mostly the Kurds, want to be the first Iraqis to liberate their own soil, south of the front lines. They can't do it alone, but under the command and control of their American allies, they might get the chance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: And we're certainly seeing those U.S. Special Forces moving at the end of the day into positions to call in those air strikes. It's quiet right now, Judy, but I can tell you it is extraordinary dramatic to see those pinpoint strikes, and the way those forward air controllers use precise calculations, timing. It's really killing by numbers, if you like, to destroy those Iraqi front positions.

WOODRUFF: Brent, in your talks with the Kurdish military leaders and others there, what is their sense of the weaker Baghdad gets, what effect is that going to have on these Iraqi troops who are right now still hanging on to Kirkuk and Mosul?

SADLER: That's a very good question, Judy. There is one main train of thought, that is, if you cut the head off of the regime by taking Baghdad, then the rest of the country here in the north could collapse like a house of cards, very quickly. But you know, we're seeing resistance by these units that are being punished by air strikes for a couple of weeks, and we do know that the U.S. coalition forces does not have -- do not have the ground force strength here in terms of armor, manpower, weaponry to do anything really significantly from the ground, unless the Iraqi Kurds are used in that sort of battle. If it's Kirkuk, that could upset Turkey and bring Turkey into the equation. The U.S. does not want that to happen. It could be Mosul, push against Mosul. Many of the officer core from Saddam Hussein's northern army, they come from Mosul, Sunnites. If Mosul were to fall first, that could have a collapsing effect on the army.

Otherwise, come over here to this northeastern corridor, collapse some of the towns south of these positions by air strikes, and again try and create a ripple effect south towards Baghdad. But as things stand now, focus on the south, and still a huge swath of territory to the north still in Saddam Hussein's control and still resisting in places and withstanding these continuous air strikes -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Brent, a number of -- telling us a number of different scenarios in terms of how this could play out in the north, no matter what happens in Baghdad. All right, Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. And Basra, meanwhile, in southern Iraq, U.S. warplanes attacked the home of someone called Chemical Ali earlier today, Ali Hassan Al Majeed. That's his real name. The Iraqi general got the name Chemical Ali because analysts say, he ordered Iraqi forces to use chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988.

Let's immediately go not far from where that was, around Basra. CNN's Mike Boettcher is joining us now on the phone. He is embedded with U.S. Special Operations Forces. What can you tell us, Mike?

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there has been sporadic artillery. We did hear a large air strike this morning. I am assuming that is the particular air strike you spoke about. The British are continuing their methodical approach of taking Basra, going in bit by bit, trying to win over the population and taking small chunks at a time, trying to tighten the noose around the Fedayeen and other regular troops inside the city.

We went in with U.S. Special Forces, troops, as far as you can go, to the very edge, to set up a checkpoint, looking for people to question, who might be suspicious, who might have information. And as we found out, as we went in to Basra, a lot of those Fedayeen are not going to give up without a fight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER (voice-over): On the way into Basra, the Special Forces soldier on the .50-caliber machine gun had a premonition, it was not going to be a quiet day. He would be proved right. The teams' mission, press into Basra to a point near the university, and set up a checkpoint. Anyone suspicious was to be questioned. British tanks would provide cover, but there wasn't any time for questions. Iraqi mortar fire made sure of that. .

Shells dropped less than 100 meters from the Special Forces' A- team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

BOETTCHER: One barely missed the British tank. There were at least 10 more impacts, but the Special Forces A-team had moved just out of the mortars' range.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely ain't going to get to shoot (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Where in the hell did that one hit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there.

BOETTCHER: Part of the team moved forward for a closer look. The rest of the unit provided cover, and scanned nearby building, bridges and highways for the Iraqi mortar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There goes the F-18, coming in for the air strike.

BOETTCHER: An F-18 streaked overhead, but British commanders who control this part of the Iraq war theater did not give the order for it to attack. Back at the checkpoint in Basra, where traffic and war intersected, more than 20 Iraqi rocket-propelled grenades were discovered in a bunker. The order was given to destroy them. American and British intelligence believe Iraqi units have stashed weapons throughout Basra, for use against any coalition advance.

It would soon be dark. The Iraqi mortar team was still at large. So the SF team wasted no time preparing their explosive charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No twist, no turn. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, captain, tell them Brits we're getting ready to pull the igniters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have we got?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got about three minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About three minutes. We didn't have time to test it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. You got it. Tell them we are ready to go. Smoke on one. Smoke on two.

(CROSSTALK)

BOETTCHER: In the race to get away from the impending detonation, our driver aborted running over an unexploded mortar. A British armored vehicle did not. It was disabled. The dark cloud in the distance marked its location.

Then, a second detonation. The Iraqi arms cache.

The soldier on the .50-caliber was right, it was not a quiet day. All for a checkpoint. A temporary checkpoint.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Wolf, yes, there was resistance there, but Special Operations Forces from the United States believe they will be able to wear it down using unconventional warfare tactics and they keep plugging away -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Any expectations that there's going to be any significant shift now that the focus appears to be on Baghdad? They're still obviously deeply involved in what's happening in the southern part of Iraq.

BOETTCHER: Wolf, I have been really trying to get a feel for that. There are two schools of thought, and I stress, this does not come from official sources. This is just considering the options that are out there.

It is believed that the Shi'a Muslims, on the outskirts and on the western suburbs in the western parts of Basra, are gradually starting to believe that the coalition is here to stay. And that, the Fedayeen, has less of a sea in which to swim. If that is the case, the Brits think they can take the city pretty quickly and that is the way it is going right now. There are others who say that may wait until they see what happens in Baghdad. If there is a victory there, then there's a belief that Basra would fall. I don't know which one of those strategies will be taken or if there is another strategy. But those are two alternatives that are out there right now.

BLITZER: CNN's Mike Boettcher, one our embedded correspondents. He's covering the U.S. Special Operations forces in southern Iraq. Thanks Mike, very much. Let's check in with CNN's Leon Harris now in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta for all of the latest developments.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Wolf. Hello, folks. I'm Leon Harris here at the CNN Center. At this hour, CNN's Walter Rodgers reports a U.S. Army task force has now withdrawn from Baghdad after offering up a dramatic show of force. Independent reports said that the Americans shot their way into the capital against a hail of light arm's fire and video shot by Associated Press shows American soldiers probing what is described as a military barracks inside the city. A coalition spokesman called the operation a clear statement that U.S. forces can enter the Iraqi capital whenever they wish.

Well, Iraq's information minister is insisting today that the reported incursion never took place. He says American forces have not entered Baghdad and he also claims the American force at Baghdad's airport was routed overnight. The coalition says the airport is securely in American hands.

An investigation is under way in this morning's crash of the Super Cobra attack helicopter. The allied Central Command says the Cobra went down in central Iraq killing both U.S. Marine Corps pilots on board. There was apparently no one else onboard. Central Command says the crash does not appeared to be caused by hostile fire.

Coalition forces are investigating possible war crimes in Iraq. British troops have discovered a shed filled with human remains mostly skulls and bones. The British military says these remains are not from those killed in this war and actually may be evident of atrocities by Saddam Hussein's regime.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote watched an Army unit recover Iraqi weapons south of Baghdad. The weapons included machine guns, ammunition and mortar shells as well. An Army sergeant told Chilcote the labels indicate that most of these weapons came from Jordan and from France.

Ahead in the next hour right here of CNN's coverage of the war in Iraq, U.S. tanks rolling into Baghdad. We are live from the frontlines, just ahead. A rescue and the recovery mission, officials identifying nine bodies found during Jessica Lynch's rescue. And how do you talk it children about war? We'll examine that issue next hour right here on CNN. Our coverage continues.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Leon. Our coverage continues. And we want to move quickly to check in with another of our embedded reporters. CNN's Gary Tuchman has spent this war at an air base in the Iraq theater. He joins us now on the videophone.

Gary, tell us about the activity where you are.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, hello to you. And we've heard so much about the American pilots flying their sorties because they're such a high percentage of the coalition, but there are also Australian pilots and British pilots.

Now, we come to you from the Royal Air Force compound at this air base near the Iraqi border. Behind me is a British airier jet. This is a jet that came into this hangar a few hours ago. A pilot a board it, a man we talked to earlier. He told us he's flown 13 missions since the war began. He's flown between Baghdad and Basra. He says perhaps his most rewarding one was helping it protect the British ground forces near Basra.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Tell me about your last mission over Basra. You were telling me you've been providing close air support for your British troops over Basra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. The British troops have been trying to take Basra or contend the situation there. And they had a bunker, which they had information, had the Republican Guard inside. British troops all around on three sides and they decided the best way to attack it was just to bring in the air power and we were ready to go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Now, the Air Force's telling us about 25,000 sorties have now been flown over Iraq, about 10,000 of those sorties used bombs and missiles. Right now, it's a relatively quiet evening at this base. We've been here two weeks. Almost every five or six minutes we hear the warplanes overhead. It's been a little quieter here. That doesn't mean it's completely quieter in the theater, although there's been a reduction of about 150 flights the last two nights, 1,850 flights of the last two nights compared to the 2,000 sorties the two or three nights before that.

Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: And Gary, when you say activity down a little bit, and yet we're hearing from the Pentagon and elsewhere that they're increasing close air support over Baghdad. So I'm assuming that there are several different locations from where air power is being directed.

TUCHMAN: Right. There are fewer total flights. There's no question about that from 2,000 to 1,850, so that's almost a 10 percent reduction in flights. But a higher percentage of the flights that are going are providing the close air support.

And one thing you mentioned before, Judy, that is true. We've talked to a number of pilots and they say one of the greatest concerns right now is so many of the sorties are going over Baghdad, that their greatest concern is the possibility of a coalition with another coalition plane.

WOODRUFF: Yes, that certainly struck me when I saw that note, Gary, in the Associated Press. And hearing you confirm it now, that these pilots more worried about running into each other than they are about any anti-aircraft fire from the ground. All right, Gary Tuchman at an air base in the theater.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. With coalition forces in/around Baghdad, where is the Republican Guard resistance, and what does this mean for the Iraqi leadership? We'll talk with CNN analyst, Ken Pollack, about that. That's coming up.

ANNOUNCER: CNN's continuing coverage of the war in Iraq, protecting U.S. led forces from the sky, the latest on the Air Force's new tactic on the war in Iraq. The Pentagon identifies several U.S. soldiers found during the rescue of an American POW. We're live as more demonstrators march for and against the war in Iraq. These stories and more today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern. Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Once the war winds down, humanitarian aid cracks up; at least that's the plan. One of the major goals is providing enough drinkable water in a war-torn country. Easier said than done as we hear from this report from CNN's Richard Blystone in southern Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. He has just returned from his checkpoint. He drove...

RICHARD BLYSTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like running through deep stand in leg irons

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alan.

BLYSTONE (on camera): Tristan. That's Tristan, yes.

(voice-over): Checkpoint after checkpoint, delay after delay, papers and more papers. The International Rescue Committee on its first recon into Umm Qasr.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got food in the movement to the local area.

BLYSTONE: The security briefing, the NGOs need that, because in the wrong environment, they could do more harm than good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got now abundance of water.

BLYSTONE: They head up the road to check out the water plant. No soldiers for escort, no helmets, no body armor. Those would give the wrong message.

MICHAEL KOCHER, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Even prior to the war, this place was in probably not best of condition but it seems to function.

BLYSTONE: They find the military assessment was a little too upbeat.

(on camera): There are there three top priorities here -- no. 1, water, no. 2, water, no. 3, water. And this plant has not put out drinkable water for more than 12 years.

(voice-over): The flow down from Basra to the north is weak. He says it's because people are breaking into the pipeline for water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The limit's 2,000.

BLYSTONE: The water specialist gets to work and finds it not only unpleasant but unsafe. But even filtered and chlorinated, it's several times too salty. That's because new irrigation dams up the Tigris and Euphrates have drained the river so much, they can no longer hold back the seawater from the Gulf. Nothing IRC can do about that, they head north. And half an hour up, they find farmers tapping the water line and drinking it, too, they say because it's all they had.

Back in Umm Qasr, water is literally like money. British forces fill tankers from a pipeline out of Kuwait, but the problem is getting enough out to 60,000 people. Angry people here say they'll be trouble if things don't improve in the next couple of days.

KOCHER: Water is an issue in Umm Qasr. We can imagine it will be a much more significant issue, pressing issue in Basra and Nasiriyah.

BLYSTONE: And it's a long, long way to Baghdad.

Richard Blystone, CNN, Umm Qasr Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And Judy, as I throw it back to you, water is not only a big issue in the southern part of Iraq, it's a big issue throughout all of Iraq, one that all U.S. officials are going to have to be concerned about in the days and weeks to come -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: I'm sure that's the case. All right, Wolf, thanks very much.

Well, right now, we want to talk more about what U.S. forces might expect as they move into the heart of Baghdad, and whether it matters if Saddam Hussein is alive or dead. With us is CNN's analyst, Ken Pollack. He's the author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq."

Ken Pollack, right now, what is your sense in terms of the Iraqis in Baghdad, the people right around Saddam Hussein, are they thrown off by the fact that the coalition forces are now right at their throats?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST/AUTHOR: As best as we can tell, Judy, and obviously, nobody really knows except those around Saddam, it does seem to be the case that they were badly shaken. It seems that they thought that the battle of Baghdad would unfold much slower. They seemed to have thought that that Republican Guard defensive line that they set up running from Karbala to al Kut last week that that would hold up U.S. forces for longer than it did. And I don't think that they expected this kind of a hell mail retreat that they were forced to order.

Right now, what it looks like is they're trying desperately to organize new defenses around Baghdad. You've heard Walter Rodgers say that those defenses look like they're very hasty. The Iraqis just trying to throw them together in the last few days because they weren't expecting the coalition to get this far this fast.

WOODRUFF: What is your sense, Ken, of how much the Iraqis have left in the way of defenses...

POLLACK: Well, they clearly have some...

WOODRUFF: ... in the city?

POLLACK: They clearly have some Republican Guard formations left. Those tank battalions and tank companies that are -- that Walt Rodgers is encountering with the 3rd of the 7th, that other U.S. formations are running into, those are clearly Republican Guard formations. But they're coming in penny packets, very small groups, which again says that the Republican Guard divisions were fully -- badly disorganized in this retreat and what Saddam is doing is he's trying desperately to just throw formations at the U.S. forces to slow them down in hopes that that will buy him the time to reset the defenses with whatever remains of the Republican Guard, which probably may have mounted two or three divisions' worth, the special Republican Guard, which is about 15,000 and 20,000 troops and then, all of his internal security forces.

WOODRUFF: You were referring to Saddam Hussein, as if he's still alive. Of course, we don't know for sure. But whether he is alive or dead, Ken Pollack, does that make a difference in terms of how the Iraqi defenses are directed right now?

POLLACK: Well, it does and it doesn't. We know that Saddam Hussein has some particular foibles about him. We know that he has a particular mindset that lends itself to wild over-optimism. We also know than Saddam Hussein is willing to do absolutely anything and so, he's someone much more likely to use chemical warfare, say. If he is incapacitated or dead in some way, might have a leadership who might think things through a little bit more differently. In fact, that might be why we haven't seen the use of chemical warfare.

But the simple fact of the matter is that whoever is in charge in Baghdad, there is someone in charge in Baghdad. And they are trying to direct the defenses of the city. They're not doing it terribly quickly. They're not doing it terribly well, but the decisions they're making aren't bad. The problem that they have is they can't think, act, and order their forces as quickly as U.S. forces can.

WOODRUFF: What do you make of these reports, Ken, that we've seen in the last few hours that there is apparently a convoy of a Ba'ath Party -- this is the Saddam Hussein party -- people moving out of city. They've been spotted perhaps on their way to Syria.

POLLACK: I think, Judy, this is another sign that the regime is starting to crumble. Officials fleeing is clearly a sign that there are people losing confidence in the regime and its ability to hold onto Baghdad. I think you can also attribute the information minister, Mr. Sahhaf's statements in the same category. I mean these are becoming ever more fantastic. And as we were saying before, they remind me very much of Joseph Goebbels before the fall of Berlin as the Russian armies were advancing, and he was making up these fantastic battles, which, of course, never occurred and talking about German divisions that didn't exist anymore. Sahhaf is clearly trying to do the same thing. It's a sign of desperation. And what's more -- again, the call from Saddam that he read this morning calling on Iraqis all over the country to rise up and to attack the Americans is another siphon desperation that they're trying some way to buy some time to reset the defenses of Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: But realistically, what choice do they have? I mean what are they going to say, what are they going to ask people to do other than what they're doing at this point?

POLLACK: No question about it.

WOODRUFF: I mean short of just capitulating.

POLLACK: Right. And they're clearly not going to do that at least it doesn't seem likely that they're going to do that. And one thing that they could do, of course, is decamp entirely, run up into Tikrit, try to hide out in Tikrit. But at this point in time, that may not even be an option for them as well because they've got to worry that the coalition has already cut the road from Baghdad to Tikrit and they may be trapped in Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: Yes. We noticed at CENTCOM they're not -- Central Command, they're not being very specific about whether they've closed that road off or not, which makes us wonder.

POLLACK: Yes, they may be hoping that someone will take the road and catch them.

WOODRUFF: Ken Pollack, CNN analyst, thanks very much.

POLLACK: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: I know we're going to be talking to you very often for now on.

All right, Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks, Judy.

Coalition forces now in Baghdad. What are some of new tactics and tools they'll be using to fight in a very different urban environment? That story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: As coalition forces move into the city of Baghdad, a city that has some five million residents, they're preparing for urban combat against Iraq's elite forces. So what's involved? Let's go to CNN's Miles O'Brien in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta. He's at the military desk -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Thanks very much, Wolf. And joining me to talk a little bit about what may lie ahead is Lieutenant General Paul Funk; U.S. Army retired, out of Austin, Texas.

General Funk, good to have you with us.

FUNK: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: I want to -- I'll tell you what, I'd like to zoom in on the central part of Baghdad here and get a sense from you as to how the military is able to define targets in a densely populated area such as this. Now I'm going to go in on this area right around the Republican Palace. This is the heart and soul of the Saddam Hussein regime. I want to show you, this is a before image you're seeing here and I'm going to slide in what is an image from just a few days ago. And at the center of it, what you're going to see are some very targeted strikes against specific palaces. For example, I'll just show you on this after image here. There is the main palace, the mother of all palaces, the Republican Palace. It has not been touched one bit. But then when you move over here, what you'll see is rather extensive damage to a neighboring palace. And the reason I bring this out, General, is I wanted to talk to you whether as things get closer to Baghdad, and you notice the difference here. Look at the damage that it's caused there. As troops move closer to being on the ground beside these places, does the precision go up or does it go down?

FUNK: Yes, that's a very good question. And I think the precision will go up. And the reason I say that is, one, you've got friendly troops closer. Two, what we're really seeing here in your graphics, and your examples are a glimpse of what the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) call Third Wave War, and this is how the U.S. is going to continuously -- in a continuously going way, how we're going to conduct warfare.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, I'm looking at -- here's a Republican Guard's barracks, which was taken out. You'll see the before right now and then the after there. You can see significant damage to those -- to each of those barracks right along there. I want to show folks an animation, General Funk, which shows one of the ways that the U.S. military is able to identify targets and put specific fire on a specific location. This shows here a predator drone. It has the ability with television cameras and so forth, remotely-controlled, to focus on specific locations, and it has the ability to send an image to the specter gunship, which can -- as you can see, we've depicted here -- it takes out these very specific locations around buildings. Is it really that accurate?

FUNK: Yes, it is. Now, I would hasten to add that any kind of violent actions like this will have some effects on people that are in the way regrettably. But we're much, much better at that one than we used to be. And as you see the Gatling gun there, that's something we used in Vietnam also, but without the targeting capabilities we have with the drones and their ability to pass information -- and of course, if you lose a drone, it's nothing compared to losing a manned aircraft up there with the whole crew on board.

O'BRIEN: No question. A $1 million price tag steep as it may be or a million and a half doesn't compare to losing a person. Now, I got to ask you, though, delineating between friend and foe getting much more complicated in this case, doesn't it?

FUNK: Yes, it does. And you've got to think about deconfliction of airspace. You heard the pilots talking earlier and a couple of your correspondents about the crowded airspace around Baghdad. Well, we've also got these kind of systems up there that we have to worry about it, so that's something to think of.

But I -- the thing that I really want to point out is the criticality is getting this information to the right place at the right time in order to target it. For the Army, for instance, as they advance into the city, just being a block ahead with something like Hunter will be a great advantage because on the screen of the 3rd of the 7th Cavalry tanks, for instance, could appear or more likely, the 4th Infantry Division tanks since they have the M-1 A-2 (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the latest tank. On that screen can appear pictures that will tell them that the enemy is just ahead, in what strength, what their positions are like and so on.

O'BRIEN: All right.

FUNK: So these drones are critical. You're absolutely right.

O'BRIEN: You're talking about the Hunter drone, which we didn't depict here, but that's an Army version of the predator essentially.

FUNK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Lieutenant General Paul Funk, thank you very much for your insights on all this. It is truly an integrated battle picture. Nevertheless, the fog of war is a cliche that still holds true I'm afraid. Anyway, good to have you with us. We appreciate your insights and we'll send it back to Wolf.

FUNK: Thanks very much, Miles.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles and General Funk, appreciate it very much.

There's no formal Pentagon briefing today. There was a Central Command briefing earlier in the morning but we will hear much more from the Pentagon tomorrow on a special edition of "LATE EDITION." That's tomorrow. I'll be speaking with the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace. He'll be among my special guests. That's tomorrow on "LATE EDITION" at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.

And coming up, diary of a soldier. We'll look at the war in Iraq through the eyes of a member of the 101st Airborne Division. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Ground troops with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, today; they are helping to fight off attacks at the airport outside of the Iraqi capital. But for this unit, the road to Baghdad began months ago. One of our correspondents in Iraq passed a camera over to Sergeant Chris Fleischmann to give us an inside look at the 101st. Fleischmann's diary dates back to the start of the war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's the guys breaking off a little while. We need to get as much rest as possible, so that when we go on our ops, which could be three or four days long continuously with no sleep at all, we can maintain and keep going.

This is the least favorite job of the infantrymen, being in fighting position. You can see differences in the -- come over here to the side and kneel down. You get on his level. You can barely see above the crew's head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out there is Duncan. He's our comic relief. He's our comic relief. It's all good!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just waiting for some news. I imagine a lot more will be happening tomorrow. We're going across the border, so I'll talk to you again tonight. We'll see what's going on. If we hear anything or see anything, out of ordinary.

How are you doing, America? We're getting ready to leave. It's about 2:00 in the morning. We're still in our staging area. Let's go. Let's get it done. Move! It's time!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are 25 meters from the Iraq border. Lock and load.

Hey Gil, how's it feel to be in Iraq? Are you ready?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just in case we didn't think we were coming in, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I guess this is my (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Here. This gives you a little different view of how much we don't have.

It's funny how quickly, you know, the vehicles come to your home. Each of us trying to bring home something, a reminder of some home or -- I guess, these are the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) coming upon what looks like it used to be a little town. It's probably been abandoned for a while.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) six guys who are trying to depend on -- depending on me to do the right thing, give them enough sleep, and it's kind of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Run, run away. Go bye-bye. Leave our truck alone. It's the locals. They really want that truck, so, we're going to go back out there. People can take it.

Don't hit anybody. Come up behind me. Come up behind them, over here to the right. Pull in front of the truck. Pull in front of the truck. All right, there's our truck getting beat to death. God dang it. The dashboard's gone, everything. Tires popped. They tore this truck up!

The sun is coming up over the horizon there. We moved farther ahead than we were last night, so we're refueling already. So we'll just here to say good morning and we'll see how far we can get today.

The topography's changed a little bit. A little rockier, hillier.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Sergeant Garcia from Chicago and I'm part of what we're doing here. I want to say hi to all of my loved ones back home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Mom, Dad. I hope you guys are doing good. Tell my little brother and sister I said hi. Sorry, I haven't called or wrote, but I've been busy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just know that we're safe out here and I'm with a great group of guys. I feel very confident about what we're doing. Don't forget we're here.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 5, 2003 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon to our viewers in North America. Good evening, from here in Kuwait City, where it's just after 9:00 p.m., just after 10:00 p.m. in Baghdad, where the news is being made this Saturday, April 5. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: And from CNN studios in Washington, I'm Judy Woodruff. Coming up this hour, the battle inside Baghdad. Coalition troops said to be in the Iraqi capital, a close look at the new tactics in urban combat.

Getting water to a thirsty city. Our Richard Blystone shows us how checkpoints, and believe it or not, paper works are delaying humanitarian efforts. And the war in Iraq from a soldier's point of view. At the front lines with a member of 101st Airborne. Now, back to Wolf in Kuwait City.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. And you are looking at a live picture right now of the skies over Baghdad. Coalition forces have moved into the center of the city. Let's look at some of the major developments in the battle unfolding right now.

U.S. troops pushed into downtown Baghdad earlier today, encountering what was described as only sporadic resistance. And sources are telling the CNN's Nic Robertson, they have spotted U.S. troops near the city's center at the Saddam Bridge next to Baghdad University, about a mile from Saddam Hussein's palace.

Some sights and sounds from the encounter of U.S. soldiers with Saddam Hussein's elite Republican Guard units. The Associated Press reports this attack by the 3rd Infantry Division was on a barracks in the suburbs southwest of Baghdad.

And to the south in Basra, U.S.-led coalition aircraft have struck the home of an Iraqi general known as Chemical Ali, the man who allegedly ordered Iraqi forces to use chemical weapons against Kurds in northern Iraq in 1988. No damage report yet from the U.S. Central Command on that attack.

What's next in the battle for Baghdad? Joining me now from the Pentagon, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, what are they saying there?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Wolf. What you hear here today is that the Baghdad portion of the war plan is now fully under way. Of course, the first step coming earlier today with that probe by U.S. Army units, with their Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles towards the center of town. They came up from the south and swung around to the west out to the airport region.

This probe is going to be the first of many. It will be to send a message to the regime that they no longer control the capital, but they will have another benefit, we are told. They will provide reconnaissance and intelligence, telling U.S. forces of the reaction they get in the city, trying to identify where the opposition may be, and look for enemy weapons.

Now to that end, another portion of the Baghdad portion of the war plan began today. There is now what is called urban close air support over the city. And what we are talking about is 24/seven fighters and bombers patrolling over Baghdad on standby to be called in for strike missions, especially to protect those U.S. forces at -- on the ground as they conduct those probes. This will include fixed wing aircraft, fighters, bombers and support aircraft. There will also be from the Navy and Air Force airborne forward air controllers, specifically to earmark out targets and point them out.

General Mike Mosley, the head of the coalition air forces, spoke to reporters by telephone earlier today from his headquarters in Saudi Arabia, talking about how this new phase of the air campaign will work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL MOSLEY: The trick is to use, if you have to do this, is to use the smallest munition possible to get the maximum effect so that you don't create those unnecessary loss of civilian life or property.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Now, what General Mosley is saying here, these will be very specialized air combat packages, preloaded with munitions specifically to strike enemy targets in the heart of Baghdad, missile launchers, anti-aircraft artillery, while still trying to minimize the impact on civilians and residential neighborhoods in the capital -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara, with this new mission for U.S. air power, I assume that that huge airport, what used to be called Saddam International Airport, Saddam Airport, now called Baghdad International Airport, I assume that airport could be very, very useful. How long will it take, according to your sources, to get those two runways up and running, or at least one of them up and running for U.S. aircraft?

STARR: Well, you know, Wolf, they could clean off that runway fairly quickly, and begin operating out of there, but there's still this other side to the equation. They don't know if they have really cleaned out the anti-aircraft artillery, the surface-to-air missile launchers, the radars and other portions of the air defense system completely out of Baghdad. They need to find out where all of this stuff is in the city before they can really start flying fixed wing aircraft to any great extent out of that airport, because of course they would be very vulnerable because the airport is so close to town, to those kinds of weapons during their takeoffs and landings.

So this is still likely to take place for some time from aircraft carriers, from forward air bases. They are going to clean off that runway, and that's going to start being used eventually as a staging point for humanitarian assistance and other reinforcement of forces moving in and out. But they want to get this urban support air mission really going and make sure that they take out the threat first -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thanks, Barbara, very much. Let's go to Judy Woodruff back in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Wolf. It's interesting to think about that air war over Baghdad. Just reading an Associated Press report saying that the skies are now so congested, that some U.S. pilots are saying they are more worried about crashing into other coalition aircraft than they are about being hit by anti-aircraft fire from the ground, which they can generally predict. So very interesting development. All right, let's take a closer look now at the military campaign centered on Baghdad. Our Miles O'Brien, standing by in Atlanta -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Judy. And to guide us through this scenario on the ground there, we are joined by Lieutenant General Paul Funk, retired U.S. Army. He's out of Austin, Texas, with us today. General Funk, good to have you with us.

LT. GEN. PAUL FUNK, (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Miles. Good to be here.

O'BRIEN: Big picture, and while I am talking, I am going to zoom us down on the airport. The significance of that toe hold at that airport is obviously crucial. Do you have the sense that they have a firm footing there yet? And/or how long will that take before they can feel confident of kind of owning that piece of real estate?

FUNK: I think right now they own that piece of real estate, Miles, but they've got -- it's interesting, I heard the comment about congested air space, the cavalry unit there, the 3rd of the 7th Cavalry also has OH-58 Deltas, small helicopters with terrific reconnaissance package on board. They're going to be working in there too to help prevent surprise, and in fact, to help us surprise the enemy. But I think we've got pretty firm control, and I think you're going to see us continue to push out into the city just to see what resistance we find and what might be out there.

O'BRIEN: Now, while I was waiting for this segment to come out, I was hunting around and I found some anti-aircraft positions in the middle of this civilian airport ostensibly. This is an anti-aircraft site there in between the main runways. If you move down to the end, there is another anti-aircraft operation there. I guess we can presume now that those anti-aircraft sites are no longer threats to coalition warplanes. There you see the four to five positions there with those anti-aircraft operations on. There is one other to point out. How much does that give the coalition sort of the ability to fly over Baghdad with complete impunity?

FUNK: I think it's a terrific opportunity for the coalition, in that regard. You make a very good point. I believe that in the fighting last night, I heard something about one of the Cav squadron, the 3rd of the 7th Cav clearing that out. So I think we are in pretty good shape right now. However, it's worth pointing out that there are a number of the so-called man pads that one of your correspondents mentioned earlier, I think last night. There are a lot of those weapons around, which will shoot down aircraft. It's a missile fired by an individual soldier. So we still have to watch out for those kinds of things, too.

O'BRIEN: Well, and I guess the point is well-taken for those of us who remember the scenario of Mogadishu. All that was there was the rocket-propelled grenade that took down the Black Hawks and the dominoes started falling there. That's a difficult thing to defend against, isn't it?

FUNK: Yes, that's a very good point and a good analogy. And I assure you that all of us have thought about that since that time, and I know that the soldiers on the ground in the great 3rd Infantry are thinking of that, as are those super Marines. I think this is an important thing when you are that close to the earth, in fact, the helicopters are in particularly -- particularly vulnerable. We have to watch out for the man pad type of weapons. And even small arm's fire.

O'BRIEN: One final question here as we go down. This is one of the main expressways, not the airport road, but it's the Abu Gurayb Expressway (ph), which leads also into Baghdad. Clearly, the Iraqis can anticipate the armored columns will go down these roads. To what extent can they lay traps on these avenues, and to what extent can coalition forces guard against that?

FUNK: That's a very good point. I think what you'll see is that you'll use those aviation assets to try to move ahead of, and protect the armor moving down those roads. In addition to that, there will be dismounted infantry, if there's any sign of a defile or any sign of a trap.

The other thing that I didn't mention earlier, and the Abrams tank is well-equipped for. We've all worried about the chemical threat. The Abrams tank has an overpressure system, which allows the crew to operate for a period of time in a chemical environment. So you may very well see that that that's one of reasons why all of these operations will have the Abrams with it.

O'BRIEN: All right, one quick question I want to put in. If you could put on that satellite imagery. I want to show you a quick before and after. This is high over Baghdad, you're looking at an image that was shot, like, last year. This one was shot this past week. It shows very dramatically the effects of those oil fires. Just quickly, sir, because we are pretty much out of time, how much of an impact will this have on close air support and just troops on the ground having all of these oil fires there? FUNK: Certainly it will be a limiting factor, but not very much. The guys that are calling them in are pretty doggone skilled and pretty brave. I don't think it will be a real factor, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, it's dramatic but maybe not the factor that the Iraqis intended it to be. All right, General Paul Funk, thank you very much for your time, see you in a bit. And I send it back to Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles. And thanks to the general as well. We are getting a very, very different view from the Iraqi regime. Let's turn to our Rula Amin, she is in neighboring Jordan, she's been in touch with her sources inside the Iraqi capital. Rula, the official line from the Iraqi government remains defiant -- not only defiant, they say they're winning.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is defiant, very defiant, Wolf, and they have a completely different version of events from Baghdad. Now, there are more bombs falling on Baghdad. There was a huge explosion right next to the Palestine Hotel just in the past hour. This is the hotel where most of the journalists in Iraq are staying, and that's where the Iraqi information minister, Mohammed Saeed Al- Sahaf, have been giving his briefings and that's where he had been trying to refute U.S. claims that U.S. troops went inside the Iraqi capital today. Central Command says the troops went inside Baghdad on the reckon mission, then they left. The Iraqis all day long have been saying that is not true. When the pictures were out and we saw these pictures from a reliable source who said they were in Baghdad, the information minister insisted these pictures were not accurate. They were not in Baghdad. They were in an area at least 30 to 40 kilometers away from Baghdad, and he was very critical of all the media outlets that actually used these pictures without much scrutiny, because he says they are simply not true. This is the way he puts it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): These pictures have nothing to do with what happened last evening or today. We keep them out. We pulverized them, defeated them, and outside of the airport to the more open area in Abu Guaaryb (ph), and we surrounded them in Abu Guaaryb (ph). These pictures are not the outskirts of Baghdad. I repeat, these pictures have nothing to do with the city of Baghdad. These are far from Baghdad, at least 30, 40 kilometers away from Baghdad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMIN: Now, the information minister there is referring also to the airport development. The Iraqis are saying that their troops have managed to force the U.S. troops out of the airport after it has been taken over by the U.S. troops, that they had inflicted serious damage among the U.S. soldiers, including some were killed, some were taken as prisoners.

The Iraqi information minister insists it's the Republican Guards now who are in full control of the airport and of the capital. It's obvious both the Iraqi and U.S. officials are trying to have their own version there told to the Iraqi people. They both need to know that the Iraqi people are on their side in order to win this war -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rula, I am curious, you speak Arabic, you watch the Arabic satellite channels, Al-Arabiya, Abu Dhabi Television, Al Jazeera and all the others. How are they playing this very, very different assessment, one line coming from the U.S. military, a very different assessment coming from the Iraqi regime? How are the major Arab satellite television channels reporting all of this?

AMIN: Well, most of these channels have reporters on the scene in Baghdad and they have been reporting the Iraqi version. They have been hosting guests from Iraq -- from the Iraqi government. At same time, they do put the U.S. Central Command briefings on their air. Anything that comes out of Washington is reported.

However, you can tell that the analysts, the people they talk too, most of their guests have a wishful thinking. They are most of them are hoping that Iraq at least can put some kind of resistance for the U.S. war in Iraq. They believe very -- they are really very suspicious of the U.S. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they feel if Iraq manages to put some kind of resistance, then the U.S. wouldn't dare to do the same in other countries. This is the fear, that this is only one step. And if the U.S. wins its war in Iraq, there will be other Arab countries in line waiting for the same fate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rula Amin, covering this story for us from her base in Jordan. Rula, thanks very much.

Judy, let me throw it back to you and I'll just throw out this one notion -- very different from a dozen years ago, the first Gulf War. There were none of these Arab satellite channels reporting to the millions of people in all of the Arab world. Now, they're all watching these Arab satellite channels. It's having a significant impact in their understanding what's going on, their own perceptions. I guess, journalistic scholars are going to be reviewing the impact of these Arab channels in the years to come -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: That's right, Wolf, no doubt about it. And you also have the notion that back then, during the first Gulf War, you had a number of these Arab countries with the United States, trying to get Saddam Hussein and his forces out of Kuwait. This time around, it is very different. A number of the Arab countries siding, as you just heard from Rula, with the Iraqi leadership.

Well, right now, north of Baghdad, other troops are moving south. You have Kurds and Americans working together toward a common goal. CNN's Brent Sadler joins us from the northern front, and Brent, I heard you give a very interesting report last hour and reminding us that while we are all so focused on Baghdad, it isn't that the coalition has complete control of the rest of the country. There is still real fighting still going on in the north.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Judy. We are seeing this whole northern army of Saddam Hussein still fighting in parts of the northern front. Still holding on to those key northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul. I want to show you some pictures of developments here just in the past couple of hours. We have been able to take some exclusive pictures of some pretty tremendous air strikes by B-52s and F-15s against Iraqi front line positions in the southeast corner of the front line, about 100 miles or so from Baghdad. These pictures actually taken by Christen Stride (ph), my cameraman, with the forward air control of U.S. Special Forces. So really look inside how they operate, how they're bringing these air strikes down.

It was about a minute from the weapons being released from the B- 52 before they flew through the air and detonated a powerful explosion across those ridge lines. This -- the end of the day I spent here, really looking just how well that cooperation between Iraqi Kurds on the ground and U.S. Special Forces is working.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): A group of Iraqi Kurds manning this .50- caliber truck-mounted machine gun is heading south toward Baghdad. A little more than an hour's drive away. They are in high spirits, now believing, in what they have always thought was the unimaginable, the collapse of Saddam Hussein's rule, now that coalition forces have his regime in their gun sights. This is about as close to Baghdad as you can get from this sector of the northern front.

A remote Peshmerga outpost. This route south is blocked by Iraqi frontlines. Iraqi troops or it's thought Saddam Fedayeen irregular units holding this ridge line. The Iraqi Kurds have been biding their time here, casting cold stares toward their longtime enemy, awaiting the U.S. military's next move, a move which now appears to be taking shape. Special Forces prepare the ground for another wave of air strikes, pinpointing the range of targets and learning the lay of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is soldier Saddam Hussein.

SADLER: This Kurdish fighter says he knows the terrain like the back of his hand, and maps out position for his American allies with a small mosaic of stones.

(on camera): As encircling American forces close in on Baghdad, the capital is all but surrounded, except for approach or escape through the northeastern corridor. An unplugged gap that is unlikely to remain opened for very much longer.

(voice-over): The armed Iraqi opposition, mostly the Kurds, want to be the first Iraqis to liberate their own soil, south of the front lines. They can't do it alone, but under the command and control of their American allies, they might get the chance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: And we're certainly seeing those U.S. Special Forces moving at the end of the day into positions to call in those air strikes. It's quiet right now, Judy, but I can tell you it is extraordinary dramatic to see those pinpoint strikes, and the way those forward air controllers use precise calculations, timing. It's really killing by numbers, if you like, to destroy those Iraqi front positions.

WOODRUFF: Brent, in your talks with the Kurdish military leaders and others there, what is their sense of the weaker Baghdad gets, what effect is that going to have on these Iraqi troops who are right now still hanging on to Kirkuk and Mosul?

SADLER: That's a very good question, Judy. There is one main train of thought, that is, if you cut the head off of the regime by taking Baghdad, then the rest of the country here in the north could collapse like a house of cards, very quickly. But you know, we're seeing resistance by these units that are being punished by air strikes for a couple of weeks, and we do know that the U.S. coalition forces does not have -- do not have the ground force strength here in terms of armor, manpower, weaponry to do anything really significantly from the ground, unless the Iraqi Kurds are used in that sort of battle. If it's Kirkuk, that could upset Turkey and bring Turkey into the equation. The U.S. does not want that to happen. It could be Mosul, push against Mosul. Many of the officer core from Saddam Hussein's northern army, they come from Mosul, Sunnites. If Mosul were to fall first, that could have a collapsing effect on the army.

Otherwise, come over here to this northeastern corridor, collapse some of the towns south of these positions by air strikes, and again try and create a ripple effect south towards Baghdad. But as things stand now, focus on the south, and still a huge swath of territory to the north still in Saddam Hussein's control and still resisting in places and withstanding these continuous air strikes -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Brent, a number of -- telling us a number of different scenarios in terms of how this could play out in the north, no matter what happens in Baghdad. All right, Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. And Basra, meanwhile, in southern Iraq, U.S. warplanes attacked the home of someone called Chemical Ali earlier today, Ali Hassan Al Majeed. That's his real name. The Iraqi general got the name Chemical Ali because analysts say, he ordered Iraqi forces to use chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988.

Let's immediately go not far from where that was, around Basra. CNN's Mike Boettcher is joining us now on the phone. He is embedded with U.S. Special Operations Forces. What can you tell us, Mike?

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there has been sporadic artillery. We did hear a large air strike this morning. I am assuming that is the particular air strike you spoke about. The British are continuing their methodical approach of taking Basra, going in bit by bit, trying to win over the population and taking small chunks at a time, trying to tighten the noose around the Fedayeen and other regular troops inside the city.

We went in with U.S. Special Forces, troops, as far as you can go, to the very edge, to set up a checkpoint, looking for people to question, who might be suspicious, who might have information. And as we found out, as we went in to Basra, a lot of those Fedayeen are not going to give up without a fight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER (voice-over): On the way into Basra, the Special Forces soldier on the .50-caliber machine gun had a premonition, it was not going to be a quiet day. He would be proved right. The teams' mission, press into Basra to a point near the university, and set up a checkpoint. Anyone suspicious was to be questioned. British tanks would provide cover, but there wasn't any time for questions. Iraqi mortar fire made sure of that. .

Shells dropped less than 100 meters from the Special Forces' A- team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

BOETTCHER: One barely missed the British tank. There were at least 10 more impacts, but the Special Forces A-team had moved just out of the mortars' range.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely ain't going to get to shoot (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Where in the hell did that one hit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there.

BOETTCHER: Part of the team moved forward for a closer look. The rest of the unit provided cover, and scanned nearby building, bridges and highways for the Iraqi mortar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There goes the F-18, coming in for the air strike.

BOETTCHER: An F-18 streaked overhead, but British commanders who control this part of the Iraq war theater did not give the order for it to attack. Back at the checkpoint in Basra, where traffic and war intersected, more than 20 Iraqi rocket-propelled grenades were discovered in a bunker. The order was given to destroy them. American and British intelligence believe Iraqi units have stashed weapons throughout Basra, for use against any coalition advance.

It would soon be dark. The Iraqi mortar team was still at large. So the SF team wasted no time preparing their explosive charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No twist, no turn. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, captain, tell them Brits we're getting ready to pull the igniters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have we got?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got about three minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About three minutes. We didn't have time to test it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. You got it. Tell them we are ready to go. Smoke on one. Smoke on two.

(CROSSTALK)

BOETTCHER: In the race to get away from the impending detonation, our driver aborted running over an unexploded mortar. A British armored vehicle did not. It was disabled. The dark cloud in the distance marked its location.

Then, a second detonation. The Iraqi arms cache.

The soldier on the .50-caliber was right, it was not a quiet day. All for a checkpoint. A temporary checkpoint.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Wolf, yes, there was resistance there, but Special Operations Forces from the United States believe they will be able to wear it down using unconventional warfare tactics and they keep plugging away -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Any expectations that there's going to be any significant shift now that the focus appears to be on Baghdad? They're still obviously deeply involved in what's happening in the southern part of Iraq.

BOETTCHER: Wolf, I have been really trying to get a feel for that. There are two schools of thought, and I stress, this does not come from official sources. This is just considering the options that are out there.

It is believed that the Shi'a Muslims, on the outskirts and on the western suburbs in the western parts of Basra, are gradually starting to believe that the coalition is here to stay. And that, the Fedayeen, has less of a sea in which to swim. If that is the case, the Brits think they can take the city pretty quickly and that is the way it is going right now. There are others who say that may wait until they see what happens in Baghdad. If there is a victory there, then there's a belief that Basra would fall. I don't know which one of those strategies will be taken or if there is another strategy. But those are two alternatives that are out there right now.

BLITZER: CNN's Mike Boettcher, one our embedded correspondents. He's covering the U.S. Special Operations forces in southern Iraq. Thanks Mike, very much. Let's check in with CNN's Leon Harris now in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta for all of the latest developments.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Wolf. Hello, folks. I'm Leon Harris here at the CNN Center. At this hour, CNN's Walter Rodgers reports a U.S. Army task force has now withdrawn from Baghdad after offering up a dramatic show of force. Independent reports said that the Americans shot their way into the capital against a hail of light arm's fire and video shot by Associated Press shows American soldiers probing what is described as a military barracks inside the city. A coalition spokesman called the operation a clear statement that U.S. forces can enter the Iraqi capital whenever they wish.

Well, Iraq's information minister is insisting today that the reported incursion never took place. He says American forces have not entered Baghdad and he also claims the American force at Baghdad's airport was routed overnight. The coalition says the airport is securely in American hands.

An investigation is under way in this morning's crash of the Super Cobra attack helicopter. The allied Central Command says the Cobra went down in central Iraq killing both U.S. Marine Corps pilots on board. There was apparently no one else onboard. Central Command says the crash does not appeared to be caused by hostile fire.

Coalition forces are investigating possible war crimes in Iraq. British troops have discovered a shed filled with human remains mostly skulls and bones. The British military says these remains are not from those killed in this war and actually may be evident of atrocities by Saddam Hussein's regime.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote watched an Army unit recover Iraqi weapons south of Baghdad. The weapons included machine guns, ammunition and mortar shells as well. An Army sergeant told Chilcote the labels indicate that most of these weapons came from Jordan and from France.

Ahead in the next hour right here of CNN's coverage of the war in Iraq, U.S. tanks rolling into Baghdad. We are live from the frontlines, just ahead. A rescue and the recovery mission, officials identifying nine bodies found during Jessica Lynch's rescue. And how do you talk it children about war? We'll examine that issue next hour right here on CNN. Our coverage continues.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Leon. Our coverage continues. And we want to move quickly to check in with another of our embedded reporters. CNN's Gary Tuchman has spent this war at an air base in the Iraq theater. He joins us now on the videophone.

Gary, tell us about the activity where you are.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, hello to you. And we've heard so much about the American pilots flying their sorties because they're such a high percentage of the coalition, but there are also Australian pilots and British pilots.

Now, we come to you from the Royal Air Force compound at this air base near the Iraqi border. Behind me is a British airier jet. This is a jet that came into this hangar a few hours ago. A pilot a board it, a man we talked to earlier. He told us he's flown 13 missions since the war began. He's flown between Baghdad and Basra. He says perhaps his most rewarding one was helping it protect the British ground forces near Basra.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Tell me about your last mission over Basra. You were telling me you've been providing close air support for your British troops over Basra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. The British troops have been trying to take Basra or contend the situation there. And they had a bunker, which they had information, had the Republican Guard inside. British troops all around on three sides and they decided the best way to attack it was just to bring in the air power and we were ready to go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Now, the Air Force's telling us about 25,000 sorties have now been flown over Iraq, about 10,000 of those sorties used bombs and missiles. Right now, it's a relatively quiet evening at this base. We've been here two weeks. Almost every five or six minutes we hear the warplanes overhead. It's been a little quieter here. That doesn't mean it's completely quieter in the theater, although there's been a reduction of about 150 flights the last two nights, 1,850 flights of the last two nights compared to the 2,000 sorties the two or three nights before that.

Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: And Gary, when you say activity down a little bit, and yet we're hearing from the Pentagon and elsewhere that they're increasing close air support over Baghdad. So I'm assuming that there are several different locations from where air power is being directed.

TUCHMAN: Right. There are fewer total flights. There's no question about that from 2,000 to 1,850, so that's almost a 10 percent reduction in flights. But a higher percentage of the flights that are going are providing the close air support.

And one thing you mentioned before, Judy, that is true. We've talked to a number of pilots and they say one of the greatest concerns right now is so many of the sorties are going over Baghdad, that their greatest concern is the possibility of a coalition with another coalition plane.

WOODRUFF: Yes, that certainly struck me when I saw that note, Gary, in the Associated Press. And hearing you confirm it now, that these pilots more worried about running into each other than they are about any anti-aircraft fire from the ground. All right, Gary Tuchman at an air base in the theater.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Judy. With coalition forces in/around Baghdad, where is the Republican Guard resistance, and what does this mean for the Iraqi leadership? We'll talk with CNN analyst, Ken Pollack, about that. That's coming up.

ANNOUNCER: CNN's continuing coverage of the war in Iraq, protecting U.S. led forces from the sky, the latest on the Air Force's new tactic on the war in Iraq. The Pentagon identifies several U.S. soldiers found during the rescue of an American POW. We're live as more demonstrators march for and against the war in Iraq. These stories and more today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern. Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Once the war winds down, humanitarian aid cracks up; at least that's the plan. One of the major goals is providing enough drinkable water in a war-torn country. Easier said than done as we hear from this report from CNN's Richard Blystone in southern Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. He has just returned from his checkpoint. He drove...

RICHARD BLYSTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like running through deep stand in leg irons

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alan.

BLYSTONE (on camera): Tristan. That's Tristan, yes.

(voice-over): Checkpoint after checkpoint, delay after delay, papers and more papers. The International Rescue Committee on its first recon into Umm Qasr.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got food in the movement to the local area.

BLYSTONE: The security briefing, the NGOs need that, because in the wrong environment, they could do more harm than good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got now abundance of water.

BLYSTONE: They head up the road to check out the water plant. No soldiers for escort, no helmets, no body armor. Those would give the wrong message.

MICHAEL KOCHER, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Even prior to the war, this place was in probably not best of condition but it seems to function.

BLYSTONE: They find the military assessment was a little too upbeat.

(on camera): There are there three top priorities here -- no. 1, water, no. 2, water, no. 3, water. And this plant has not put out drinkable water for more than 12 years.

(voice-over): The flow down from Basra to the north is weak. He says it's because people are breaking into the pipeline for water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The limit's 2,000.

BLYSTONE: The water specialist gets to work and finds it not only unpleasant but unsafe. But even filtered and chlorinated, it's several times too salty. That's because new irrigation dams up the Tigris and Euphrates have drained the river so much, they can no longer hold back the seawater from the Gulf. Nothing IRC can do about that, they head north. And half an hour up, they find farmers tapping the water line and drinking it, too, they say because it's all they had.

Back in Umm Qasr, water is literally like money. British forces fill tankers from a pipeline out of Kuwait, but the problem is getting enough out to 60,000 people. Angry people here say they'll be trouble if things don't improve in the next couple of days.

KOCHER: Water is an issue in Umm Qasr. We can imagine it will be a much more significant issue, pressing issue in Basra and Nasiriyah.

BLYSTONE: And it's a long, long way to Baghdad.

Richard Blystone, CNN, Umm Qasr Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And Judy, as I throw it back to you, water is not only a big issue in the southern part of Iraq, it's a big issue throughout all of Iraq, one that all U.S. officials are going to have to be concerned about in the days and weeks to come -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: I'm sure that's the case. All right, Wolf, thanks very much.

Well, right now, we want to talk more about what U.S. forces might expect as they move into the heart of Baghdad, and whether it matters if Saddam Hussein is alive or dead. With us is CNN's analyst, Ken Pollack. He's the author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq."

Ken Pollack, right now, what is your sense in terms of the Iraqis in Baghdad, the people right around Saddam Hussein, are they thrown off by the fact that the coalition forces are now right at their throats?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST/AUTHOR: As best as we can tell, Judy, and obviously, nobody really knows except those around Saddam, it does seem to be the case that they were badly shaken. It seems that they thought that the battle of Baghdad would unfold much slower. They seemed to have thought that that Republican Guard defensive line that they set up running from Karbala to al Kut last week that that would hold up U.S. forces for longer than it did. And I don't think that they expected this kind of a hell mail retreat that they were forced to order.

Right now, what it looks like is they're trying desperately to organize new defenses around Baghdad. You've heard Walter Rodgers say that those defenses look like they're very hasty. The Iraqis just trying to throw them together in the last few days because they weren't expecting the coalition to get this far this fast.

WOODRUFF: What is your sense, Ken, of how much the Iraqis have left in the way of defenses...

POLLACK: Well, they clearly have some...

WOODRUFF: ... in the city?

POLLACK: They clearly have some Republican Guard formations left. Those tank battalions and tank companies that are -- that Walt Rodgers is encountering with the 3rd of the 7th, that other U.S. formations are running into, those are clearly Republican Guard formations. But they're coming in penny packets, very small groups, which again says that the Republican Guard divisions were fully -- badly disorganized in this retreat and what Saddam is doing is he's trying desperately to just throw formations at the U.S. forces to slow them down in hopes that that will buy him the time to reset the defenses with whatever remains of the Republican Guard, which probably may have mounted two or three divisions' worth, the special Republican Guard, which is about 15,000 and 20,000 troops and then, all of his internal security forces.

WOODRUFF: You were referring to Saddam Hussein, as if he's still alive. Of course, we don't know for sure. But whether he is alive or dead, Ken Pollack, does that make a difference in terms of how the Iraqi defenses are directed right now?

POLLACK: Well, it does and it doesn't. We know that Saddam Hussein has some particular foibles about him. We know that he has a particular mindset that lends itself to wild over-optimism. We also know than Saddam Hussein is willing to do absolutely anything and so, he's someone much more likely to use chemical warfare, say. If he is incapacitated or dead in some way, might have a leadership who might think things through a little bit more differently. In fact, that might be why we haven't seen the use of chemical warfare.

But the simple fact of the matter is that whoever is in charge in Baghdad, there is someone in charge in Baghdad. And they are trying to direct the defenses of the city. They're not doing it terribly quickly. They're not doing it terribly well, but the decisions they're making aren't bad. The problem that they have is they can't think, act, and order their forces as quickly as U.S. forces can.

WOODRUFF: What do you make of these reports, Ken, that we've seen in the last few hours that there is apparently a convoy of a Ba'ath Party -- this is the Saddam Hussein party -- people moving out of city. They've been spotted perhaps on their way to Syria.

POLLACK: I think, Judy, this is another sign that the regime is starting to crumble. Officials fleeing is clearly a sign that there are people losing confidence in the regime and its ability to hold onto Baghdad. I think you can also attribute the information minister, Mr. Sahhaf's statements in the same category. I mean these are becoming ever more fantastic. And as we were saying before, they remind me very much of Joseph Goebbels before the fall of Berlin as the Russian armies were advancing, and he was making up these fantastic battles, which, of course, never occurred and talking about German divisions that didn't exist anymore. Sahhaf is clearly trying to do the same thing. It's a sign of desperation. And what's more -- again, the call from Saddam that he read this morning calling on Iraqis all over the country to rise up and to attack the Americans is another siphon desperation that they're trying some way to buy some time to reset the defenses of Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: But realistically, what choice do they have? I mean what are they going to say, what are they going to ask people to do other than what they're doing at this point?

POLLACK: No question about it.

WOODRUFF: I mean short of just capitulating.

POLLACK: Right. And they're clearly not going to do that at least it doesn't seem likely that they're going to do that. And one thing that they could do, of course, is decamp entirely, run up into Tikrit, try to hide out in Tikrit. But at this point in time, that may not even be an option for them as well because they've got to worry that the coalition has already cut the road from Baghdad to Tikrit and they may be trapped in Baghdad.

WOODRUFF: Yes. We noticed at CENTCOM they're not -- Central Command, they're not being very specific about whether they've closed that road off or not, which makes us wonder.

POLLACK: Yes, they may be hoping that someone will take the road and catch them.

WOODRUFF: Ken Pollack, CNN analyst, thanks very much.

POLLACK: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: I know we're going to be talking to you very often for now on.

All right, Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks, Judy.

Coalition forces now in Baghdad. What are some of new tactics and tools they'll be using to fight in a very different urban environment? That story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: As coalition forces move into the city of Baghdad, a city that has some five million residents, they're preparing for urban combat against Iraq's elite forces. So what's involved? Let's go to CNN's Miles O'Brien in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta. He's at the military desk -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Thanks very much, Wolf. And joining me to talk a little bit about what may lie ahead is Lieutenant General Paul Funk; U.S. Army retired, out of Austin, Texas.

General Funk, good to have you with us.

FUNK: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: I want to -- I'll tell you what, I'd like to zoom in on the central part of Baghdad here and get a sense from you as to how the military is able to define targets in a densely populated area such as this. Now I'm going to go in on this area right around the Republican Palace. This is the heart and soul of the Saddam Hussein regime. I want to show you, this is a before image you're seeing here and I'm going to slide in what is an image from just a few days ago. And at the center of it, what you're going to see are some very targeted strikes against specific palaces. For example, I'll just show you on this after image here. There is the main palace, the mother of all palaces, the Republican Palace. It has not been touched one bit. But then when you move over here, what you'll see is rather extensive damage to a neighboring palace. And the reason I bring this out, General, is I wanted to talk to you whether as things get closer to Baghdad, and you notice the difference here. Look at the damage that it's caused there. As troops move closer to being on the ground beside these places, does the precision go up or does it go down?

FUNK: Yes, that's a very good question. And I think the precision will go up. And the reason I say that is, one, you've got friendly troops closer. Two, what we're really seeing here in your graphics, and your examples are a glimpse of what the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) call Third Wave War, and this is how the U.S. is going to continuously -- in a continuously going way, how we're going to conduct warfare.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, I'm looking at -- here's a Republican Guard's barracks, which was taken out. You'll see the before right now and then the after there. You can see significant damage to those -- to each of those barracks right along there. I want to show folks an animation, General Funk, which shows one of the ways that the U.S. military is able to identify targets and put specific fire on a specific location. This shows here a predator drone. It has the ability with television cameras and so forth, remotely-controlled, to focus on specific locations, and it has the ability to send an image to the specter gunship, which can -- as you can see, we've depicted here -- it takes out these very specific locations around buildings. Is it really that accurate?

FUNK: Yes, it is. Now, I would hasten to add that any kind of violent actions like this will have some effects on people that are in the way regrettably. But we're much, much better at that one than we used to be. And as you see the Gatling gun there, that's something we used in Vietnam also, but without the targeting capabilities we have with the drones and their ability to pass information -- and of course, if you lose a drone, it's nothing compared to losing a manned aircraft up there with the whole crew on board.

O'BRIEN: No question. A $1 million price tag steep as it may be or a million and a half doesn't compare to losing a person. Now, I got to ask you, though, delineating between friend and foe getting much more complicated in this case, doesn't it?

FUNK: Yes, it does. And you've got to think about deconfliction of airspace. You heard the pilots talking earlier and a couple of your correspondents about the crowded airspace around Baghdad. Well, we've also got these kind of systems up there that we have to worry about it, so that's something to think of.

But I -- the thing that I really want to point out is the criticality is getting this information to the right place at the right time in order to target it. For the Army, for instance, as they advance into the city, just being a block ahead with something like Hunter will be a great advantage because on the screen of the 3rd of the 7th Cavalry tanks, for instance, could appear or more likely, the 4th Infantry Division tanks since they have the M-1 A-2 (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the latest tank. On that screen can appear pictures that will tell them that the enemy is just ahead, in what strength, what their positions are like and so on.

O'BRIEN: All right.

FUNK: So these drones are critical. You're absolutely right.

O'BRIEN: You're talking about the Hunter drone, which we didn't depict here, but that's an Army version of the predator essentially.

FUNK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Lieutenant General Paul Funk, thank you very much for your insights on all this. It is truly an integrated battle picture. Nevertheless, the fog of war is a cliche that still holds true I'm afraid. Anyway, good to have you with us. We appreciate your insights and we'll send it back to Wolf.

FUNK: Thanks very much, Miles.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles and General Funk, appreciate it very much.

There's no formal Pentagon briefing today. There was a Central Command briefing earlier in the morning but we will hear much more from the Pentagon tomorrow on a special edition of "LATE EDITION." That's tomorrow. I'll be speaking with the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace. He'll be among my special guests. That's tomorrow on "LATE EDITION" at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.

And coming up, diary of a soldier. We'll look at the war in Iraq through the eyes of a member of the 101st Airborne Division. Stay with us.

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WOODRUFF: Ground troops with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, today; they are helping to fight off attacks at the airport outside of the Iraqi capital. But for this unit, the road to Baghdad began months ago. One of our correspondents in Iraq passed a camera over to Sergeant Chris Fleischmann to give us an inside look at the 101st. Fleischmann's diary dates back to the start of the war.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's the guys breaking off a little while. We need to get as much rest as possible, so that when we go on our ops, which could be three or four days long continuously with no sleep at all, we can maintain and keep going.

This is the least favorite job of the infantrymen, being in fighting position. You can see differences in the -- come over here to the side and kneel down. You get on his level. You can barely see above the crew's head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out there is Duncan. He's our comic relief. He's our comic relief. It's all good!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just waiting for some news. I imagine a lot more will be happening tomorrow. We're going across the border, so I'll talk to you again tonight. We'll see what's going on. If we hear anything or see anything, out of ordinary.

How are you doing, America? We're getting ready to leave. It's about 2:00 in the morning. We're still in our staging area. Let's go. Let's get it done. Move! It's time!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are 25 meters from the Iraq border. Lock and load.

Hey Gil, how's it feel to be in Iraq? Are you ready?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just in case we didn't think we were coming in, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I guess this is my (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Here. This gives you a little different view of how much we don't have.

It's funny how quickly, you know, the vehicles come to your home. Each of us trying to bring home something, a reminder of some home or -- I guess, these are the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) coming upon what looks like it used to be a little town. It's probably been abandoned for a while.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) six guys who are trying to depend on -- depending on me to do the right thing, give them enough sleep, and it's kind of a (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Run, run away. Go bye-bye. Leave our truck alone. It's the locals. They really want that truck, so, we're going to go back out there. People can take it.

Don't hit anybody. Come up behind me. Come up behind them, over here to the right. Pull in front of the truck. Pull in front of the truck. All right, there's our truck getting beat to death. God dang it. The dashboard's gone, everything. Tires popped. They tore this truck up!

The sun is coming up over the horizon there. We moved farther ahead than we were last night, so we're refueling already. So we'll just here to say good morning and we'll see how far we can get today.

The topography's changed a little bit. A little rockier, hillier.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Sergeant Garcia from Chicago and I'm part of what we're doing here. I want to say hi to all of my loved ones back home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Mom, Dad. I hope you guys are doing good. Tell my little brother and sister I said hi. Sorry, I haven't called or wrote, but I've been busy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just know that we're safe out here and I'm with a great group of guys. I feel very confident about what we're doing. Don't forget we're here.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE)

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