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Dangerous Times in Baghdad

Aired April 10, 2003 - 12:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's dark now here in the Persian Gulf, dark in Baghdad. That's a more dangerous time, according to U.S. military officials. Especially given the chaos apparently in parts of the Iraqi capital unfolding right now.
Let's bring in CNN military analyst retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd.

General Shepperd, I want to also let our viewers know we're standing by for a White House briefing scheduled to begin in less than 15 minutes from now. A White House briefing with press secretary, Ari Fleischer, which we, of course, will carry live here on CNN.

But General Shepperd, this whole suicide bombing phenomenon, which has occurred elsewhere in Iraq during this three-week war, now apparently has touched the lives of four U.S. Marines injured in what our Walter Rodgers is reporting as a suicide bombing attack. There's not much you can do to prevent these kinds of suicide bombings. If someone wants to kill themselves, it's going to be pretty difficult in a city of some five million people to prevent that, although not necessarily completely impossible, General Shepperd.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. Wolf, it's the most difficult of scenarios. You simply can't shoot everyone that walks up to a checkpoint. You can force them to hold their robes open, their coats open, that type of thing, to make sure at a distance. But even if they get within -- you know, within a reasonable number of feet, a large explosion can do significant damage.

This is the Israel-Palestine. We see it in Afghanistan, all over the Middle East. And it is the single most difficult technique; asymmetric warfare at its worst, Wolf.

BLITZER: And it certainly complicates this opportunity that U.S. military has to win over the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people if you're afraid to even go near them physically. And certainly this kind of suicide bombing attempt is going to send another chill through the U.S. Marines and soldiers who are now on the streets of Baghdad.

SHEPPERD: Indeed, it does. And that's exactly why it's being done by remaining Iraqi loyalists there and the regime loyalists. It's very, very difficult.

As a coalition, we've dropped leaflets warning citizens to stay away from U.S. forces. We have made loud speaker announcements. But they still, as you can see in the streets, approach them and mob them. And you can't simply shoot these people.

So you're going to have to find new techniques to essentially assure that they do not have explosives on them at a distance before they approach. And it's most difficult, Wolf.

BLITZER: And General, as we take a look at a live picture of Baghdad, it looks quiet. That could be deceptive somewhat. We've been hearing from various journalists who are now roaming around, working in Baghdad, that this is a potentially very dangerous time.

There's still a lot of people, a lot of former Iraqi soldiers, if you will, probably a lot of former Republican Guard soldiers and Saddam Fedayeen paramilitary troops who basically took off their uniforms but still have their AK-47s and their other weapons. So potentially it's a very, very dangerous period right now in the Iraqi capital, General.

SHEPPERD: It's extremely dangerous, Wolf. This city of five million people, think of Chicago and all the places that people could hide and hide weapons and then come out later, and that's exactly what's going on.

The coalition forces are not doing block by block clearance, at least at this point, but it's going to be a repeat in all the large cities and the ones up north, too. You've got Tikrit up north, 660 some odd thousand people; you've got Mosul up north, 1.7 million people. So we've been warned in the briefings from the Pentagon that there's still lots of fighting, and we're seeing lots of fighting going on in Baghdad and lots more coming up north, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, General. I want to bring in our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux. And just to recap for viewers who may just be tuning in, our Walter Rodgers now on the streets of Baghdad embedded with the U.S. military there, is reporting that just within the past few minutes there's been a suicide bombing in Baghdad. Four U.S. marines injured. We don't know the extent of those injuries.

Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, we're standing by for this press briefing coming up in the next few minutes. I assume there's been no formal White House reaction. But the president, only yesterday through his spokesman, the defense secretary, and others, were warning this war is by no means over yet, despite the collapse of that statue of Saddam Hussein in downtown Baghdad yesterday.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely, Wolf. This is the main concern of the administration, is that people will start to become complacent, they'll be comfortable.

They saw those celebrations in the street yesterday, and they'll think that the war is over. But White House aides making it very clear that people will get hurt, people will die. That this is far from over.

The Bush administration as well also dealing with really trying to manage the message from here. As you had mentioned before, just within the last 24 to 48 hours we've seen these statues of Saddam Hussein coming down. Really these icons, these symbols taking on a great deal of significance.

There was a U.S. soldier, as you know, who put an American flag on one of those statues and created quite a bit of concern for those in the Middle East who feel as if the United States is an occupier. Well, the Bush administration launching its own media campaign today. President Bush speaking directly with the Iraqi people, or rather to the Iraqi people, in a videotaped address that was aired in Baghdad making it very clear.

Also, the British prime minister, Tony Blair, the two of them videotaping those addresses at the Belfast conference. That was on Tuesday. The message being that the Saddam Hussein regimen is crumbling and that United States is there to free the Iraqi people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At this moment, the regimen of Saddam Hussein is being removed from power. And a long era of fear and cruelty is ending. American and coalition forces are now operating inside Baghdad, and we will not stop until Saddam's corrupt gang is gone. The government of Iraq and the future of your country will soon belong to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Now, Wolf, also we expect there will be these broadcasts, they'll ask for some five hours, five days a week. There will be broadcasts in Baghdad from the American and British forces. It will be kind of a nightly newscast, were described. That they'll have media messages as well as events, things of that nature, debates.

There's also going to be a newspaper that's going to be published. This is through the Pentagon and British forces that is going to be released sometime on Saturday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Suzanne, stand by. We're going to be getting back to you.

Just to remind our viewers, we're standing by for the White House press briefing. Ari Fleischer will be answering reporters questions in the next few minutes. We'll go there live once he begins.

General Don Shepperd, our military analyst, is also standing by. General Shepperd, just to recap for our viewers, our Walter Rodgers on the streets of Baghdad right now, reporting that four U.S. Marines seriously injured in the aftermath of a suicide bombing that occurred not far from the Palestine hotel in downtown Baghdad, the center of the city.

The Palestine Hotel now being famous, of course. That's where most of the foreign press corps, the international journalists are based. Clearly, it was audible from that site from where Walter Rodgers is, and he's quoting U.S. military officials as saying four U.S. Marines seriously injured. We don't know the extent of the injuries.

General Shepperd, you were saying before the Israelis certainly have had an enormous headache with suicide bombings over these many years. They have an excellent military. They've been unable to cope with it completely. I assume the U.S. military has tried to learn from some of the Israeli military experienced in dealing with this kind of military challenge; namely, suicide bombings?

SHEPPERD: Indeed they have, Wolf. But it's a different situation in Israel, where Israel has more residents than Palestinians and there are checkpoints to which people can come before they get into the populated areas. In the case of Baghdad, we have a very small number of forces now. Even though they look numerous, they're not a large number of forces in a city of five million essentially surrounded by people who could be full of suicide bombers.

This is a very, very difficult tactic. When you get people that are willing to commit suicide and blow themselves up in your presence, it is the most serious and most difficult threat to overcome, and there's no magic bullet to do it.

You spread security very carefully and very slowly. You disarm the population, and you produce confidence. And it takes time, Wolf. We're just at the very early stages.

BLITZER: All right. General, stand by a second. Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent, is joining us now.

Barbara, there's been one suicide bombing in the southern part of Iraq earlier in this war; there's been another one in the northern part of Iraq, killed a journalist, as well as some Kurds. Now in the center of Baghdad, Walter Rodgers, our embedded reporter, on the streets of Baghdad reporting four U.S. Marines seriously injured.

Going into this war there certainly was a great fear among the Central Command and other U.S. military officials that suicide bombings could become an enormous challenge. So far, three, as far as I can count, but it's probably still early in the game -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this had been one of the things that the U.S. military had been extremely concerned about. And even since yesterday, the scenes of euphoria and celebration in Baghdad, there had been constant warnings from the U.S. military that there could still be plenty of trouble ahead.

Even this morning, earlier today at the briefing at Central Command, they addressed the point that Baghdad is still a very dangerous place. Here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baghdad's still an ugly place. There are many parts of the city that are either not secured by U.S. forces, or are sort of unsecured at all, and there are other places in the city where we believe there's still pockets of remaining small elements of Republican Guard, Special Republican Guard and paramilitary forces. And that's really the objective of our operations in Baghdad now, is to go to those locations and return some stability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: That's really the problem for the military now, Wolf, is how to bring stability to the city, how to become somewhat of a security force without becoming too much of an overwhelming occupation force for the citizens of Baghdad -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara, there's going to be a Pentagon briefing later today. First of all, what time is that briefing and who are going to be the briefers?

STARR: It will be at 1:45 Eastern Time here in the United States. And today, in the regular routine rotation, we expect the Pentagon spokeswoman, Victoria Clark, and Brigadier General Stanley McChrystal of the Joint Staff to provide an operations update.

And we expect them to address the question also of what's been happening in northern Iraq, around the city of Kirkuk, where the Kurdish population has now apparently taken over most of the city. Very few U.S. military ground forces in northern Iraq. The situation there also moving rapidly ahead, and still plenty of Iraqi forces, including Republican Guard, for them to deal with in northern Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Barbara, please stand by. We're going to continue to cover this story.

Four U.S. Marines seriously injured, according to our Walter Rodgers, on the streets of Baghdad following a suicide bombing. Leon Harris is standing by in the CNN newsroom. He's got more -- Leon.

HARRIS: Yes, Wolf. That breaking story from Baghdad now pretty much underlining the words that we've gotten from the Pentagon, from CENTCOM in recent days about Baghdad still being a very dangerous place and there's still much to be done there.

We'll be going back to our Walt Rodgers in just a moment. But first we want to remind folks that we're waiting for the White House press briefing to begin. It should be getting underway any moment now. And when that does happen, we'll go there live.

In the meantime let's go back live to Baghdad. Walt Rodgers still standing by there in the dark there in Baghdad. Walt, give us the very latest on what you've been hearing there about this suicide bombing.

RODGERS: Hello, Leon. Well, the area we are in is a Marine checkpoint, so you can imagine the soldiers over my should are more than a little anxious. The hotel over there has locked out all reporters; so nervous is the hotel about a suicide bomb attack.

What happened, as I say, about 20 or 25 minutes ago, dusk here in Baghdad, U.S. Marines were on a checkpoint, and an Iraqi civilian walked up to them, simply detonated his explosives, killed himself, obviously, seriously injured four U.S. Marines. Now as for these suicide attacks, there have been actually many more than I think I've heard being discussed.

We heard a military briefing here with the various commanders in the U.S. Army, and they were warned against the Iraqis using ambulances and fire engines, emergency vehicles, as a kind of way to force their way in close to U.S. military convoys and blow themselves up. But I need to tell you, that every U.S. Marine standing guard in this city of Baghdad, every U.S. Army soldier, 3rd Infantry Division, is extraordinarily vulnerable to this.

And at night you can keep the civilian populous far enough back; you just don't let them anywhere near you. But in the daytime, the civilian populous believes it has the right to roam its own streets, and they come up to the Marine positions.

I've watched them all day seek permission to pass. The Marines have to have this social intercourse with them. They at least have to talk to them and tell them no, don't come any closer. Go away.

And was perfectly obvious, one suicide bomber slipped through, and the threat is very, very widespread here. Cars -- we're at a checkpoint, and all day long it's occurred to me, listen, some guy could walk up -- and there have been people walking up -- it's occurred to me we could get very badly blown up here as well -- Leon.

HARRIS: Well we're certainly hoping that's not going to be the case. Walt, we want you to be very careful. You, and whoever else is traveling with you. Please be very careful. We want to hear back from you later after you get some more information about this story.

In the meantime, let's go back to Wolf Blitzer, standing by in Kuwait City -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I can only echo what you're saying, Leon. I want all of our reporters obviously in Baghdad and around Iraq to be very, very careful. It's still a very dangerous time, despite the celebrations we all saw on television in Baghdad, elsewhere yesterday in Baghdad, and other cities in Iraq. Sill very, very dangerous.

Remember we're standing by for the White House briefing, expected to begin very, very soon. In the meantime, let's bring in our CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He's joining us from Washington.

Ken, a suicide bombing attempt -- not an attempt, an actual suicide bombing in Baghdad, not far from the Palestine Hotel. Four U.S. Marines seriously injured. We don't know the extent of those injuries. Is this something the U.S. military now in Iraq should be anticipating a lot more of in the days and weeks to come?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well certainly they've got to be anticipating more such attacks. And I think you're already seeing Walt Rodgers talking about the fact that they are taking ever-greater precautions to deal with it.

We have to remember there are still pockets of resistance out there, there are still Saddam's loyalists out there. And as Central Command was suggesting this morning, it's also important to remember that the war is not over in a geographic sense.

There are still Iraqi cities which are still under the regime's control. And in particular, Saddam's hometown of Tikrit is still not under coalition control. And certainly as long as all of those things are true, you've got to expect that there may be additional attacks like this.

BLITZER: Tikrit was always considered one of the most secure locations for Saddam Hussein, given the fact this his clan, the Tikriti clan has basically ruled Iraq for so many years. There's a lot of speculation, I don't know how serious it is, that Saddam Hussein himself and his two sons, had they survived the latest U.S. attempt to kill them, may have wound up, in fact, in Tikrit. What is your assessment?

POLLACK: Yes. I think that is the most -- obviously the most likely scenario, Wolf. The thing about Tikrit that makes it different from Baghdad is that in Baghdad what we saw was that most of the population of Baghdad was apathetic. They didn't particularly care for Saddam. Some of them welcomed U.S. forces; many of them seemed to welcome U.S. forces. Many others may not have necessarily liked the presence of U.S. forces, but they certainly weren't going to fight for Saddam.

In Tikrit, as best we understand it, it's a city of about 250,000 people, and they seem to actually genuinely like Saddam. Saddam is their favorite son, Saddam has done tremendous amounts for the people of Tikrit. So many of Saddam's inner circle come from Tikrit. So much of his Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard come from Tikrit.

They've all gotten all kinds of privileges and extra pay for it. And everyone's expectation is that, in Tikrit, what we may find is not only large numbers of Saddam loyalists, but an entire population that may be willing to actively support Saddam and his loyalists.

BLITZER: And earlier today, in the southern part of Iraq, in Najaf, two Shiite clerics were hacked to death by a crowd. Tell our viewers what happened. And as you do, give us some perspective what this might mean for the U.S. military inside Iraq.

POLLACK: Wolf, I want to honest with you, I do not have details about those attacks. I think it's premature to make any real statements. But the fact of the matter is this does speak to a larger issue inside Iraq, which is that Iraq is in many ways a traumatized society.

After 34 years of Saddam's role, during which Saddam played different groups against each other, we could see all kinds of retribution going on. Undoubtedly, there are going to be people both from inside Iraq and outside of Iraq who are going to come forward and try to stake a claim to rule in a new Iraqi government. And there are going to be people inside Iraq who are going to oppose that. And that opposition could express itself in the form of violence if coalition forces are not able to spread out across Iraq cities and ensure stability and order in all of those cities. BLITZER: One of those Shiite clerics was a Saddam loyalist. The other, though, was considered a moderate. Presumably they were getting together, according to widespread reports, Ken, to try to unite the Shiites in the face of the U.S. military victory there, the triumph in Najaf. But apparently some people in Najaf not happy with the Shiite cleric who was a Saddam loyalist, and taking their revenge, moving quickly on that front.

We're going to continue to monitor that development. Potentially significant, given the fact that the Shiites -- the Shia population of Iraq is still the majority in that country, especially in the south, especially in the eastern parts of Baghdad. The Sunni the minority, and we're getting back to that whole Tikriti clan; Saddam Hussein coming from Tikrit. It's obviously a hugely complicated situation.

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Aired April 10, 2003 - 12:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's dark now here in the Persian Gulf, dark in Baghdad. That's a more dangerous time, according to U.S. military officials. Especially given the chaos apparently in parts of the Iraqi capital unfolding right now.
Let's bring in CNN military analyst retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd.

General Shepperd, I want to also let our viewers know we're standing by for a White House briefing scheduled to begin in less than 15 minutes from now. A White House briefing with press secretary, Ari Fleischer, which we, of course, will carry live here on CNN.

But General Shepperd, this whole suicide bombing phenomenon, which has occurred elsewhere in Iraq during this three-week war, now apparently has touched the lives of four U.S. Marines injured in what our Walter Rodgers is reporting as a suicide bombing attack. There's not much you can do to prevent these kinds of suicide bombings. If someone wants to kill themselves, it's going to be pretty difficult in a city of some five million people to prevent that, although not necessarily completely impossible, General Shepperd.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. Wolf, it's the most difficult of scenarios. You simply can't shoot everyone that walks up to a checkpoint. You can force them to hold their robes open, their coats open, that type of thing, to make sure at a distance. But even if they get within -- you know, within a reasonable number of feet, a large explosion can do significant damage.

This is the Israel-Palestine. We see it in Afghanistan, all over the Middle East. And it is the single most difficult technique; asymmetric warfare at its worst, Wolf.

BLITZER: And it certainly complicates this opportunity that U.S. military has to win over the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people if you're afraid to even go near them physically. And certainly this kind of suicide bombing attempt is going to send another chill through the U.S. Marines and soldiers who are now on the streets of Baghdad.

SHEPPERD: Indeed, it does. And that's exactly why it's being done by remaining Iraqi loyalists there and the regime loyalists. It's very, very difficult.

As a coalition, we've dropped leaflets warning citizens to stay away from U.S. forces. We have made loud speaker announcements. But they still, as you can see in the streets, approach them and mob them. And you can't simply shoot these people.

So you're going to have to find new techniques to essentially assure that they do not have explosives on them at a distance before they approach. And it's most difficult, Wolf.

BLITZER: And General, as we take a look at a live picture of Baghdad, it looks quiet. That could be deceptive somewhat. We've been hearing from various journalists who are now roaming around, working in Baghdad, that this is a potentially very dangerous time.

There's still a lot of people, a lot of former Iraqi soldiers, if you will, probably a lot of former Republican Guard soldiers and Saddam Fedayeen paramilitary troops who basically took off their uniforms but still have their AK-47s and their other weapons. So potentially it's a very, very dangerous period right now in the Iraqi capital, General.

SHEPPERD: It's extremely dangerous, Wolf. This city of five million people, think of Chicago and all the places that people could hide and hide weapons and then come out later, and that's exactly what's going on.

The coalition forces are not doing block by block clearance, at least at this point, but it's going to be a repeat in all the large cities and the ones up north, too. You've got Tikrit up north, 660 some odd thousand people; you've got Mosul up north, 1.7 million people. So we've been warned in the briefings from the Pentagon that there's still lots of fighting, and we're seeing lots of fighting going on in Baghdad and lots more coming up north, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, General. I want to bring in our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux. And just to recap for viewers who may just be tuning in, our Walter Rodgers now on the streets of Baghdad embedded with the U.S. military there, is reporting that just within the past few minutes there's been a suicide bombing in Baghdad. Four U.S. marines injured. We don't know the extent of those injuries.

Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, we're standing by for this press briefing coming up in the next few minutes. I assume there's been no formal White House reaction. But the president, only yesterday through his spokesman, the defense secretary, and others, were warning this war is by no means over yet, despite the collapse of that statue of Saddam Hussein in downtown Baghdad yesterday.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely, Wolf. This is the main concern of the administration, is that people will start to become complacent, they'll be comfortable.

They saw those celebrations in the street yesterday, and they'll think that the war is over. But White House aides making it very clear that people will get hurt, people will die. That this is far from over.

The Bush administration as well also dealing with really trying to manage the message from here. As you had mentioned before, just within the last 24 to 48 hours we've seen these statues of Saddam Hussein coming down. Really these icons, these symbols taking on a great deal of significance.

There was a U.S. soldier, as you know, who put an American flag on one of those statues and created quite a bit of concern for those in the Middle East who feel as if the United States is an occupier. Well, the Bush administration launching its own media campaign today. President Bush speaking directly with the Iraqi people, or rather to the Iraqi people, in a videotaped address that was aired in Baghdad making it very clear.

Also, the British prime minister, Tony Blair, the two of them videotaping those addresses at the Belfast conference. That was on Tuesday. The message being that the Saddam Hussein regimen is crumbling and that United States is there to free the Iraqi people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At this moment, the regimen of Saddam Hussein is being removed from power. And a long era of fear and cruelty is ending. American and coalition forces are now operating inside Baghdad, and we will not stop until Saddam's corrupt gang is gone. The government of Iraq and the future of your country will soon belong to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Now, Wolf, also we expect there will be these broadcasts, they'll ask for some five hours, five days a week. There will be broadcasts in Baghdad from the American and British forces. It will be kind of a nightly newscast, were described. That they'll have media messages as well as events, things of that nature, debates.

There's also going to be a newspaper that's going to be published. This is through the Pentagon and British forces that is going to be released sometime on Saturday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Suzanne, stand by. We're going to be getting back to you.

Just to remind our viewers, we're standing by for the White House press briefing. Ari Fleischer will be answering reporters questions in the next few minutes. We'll go there live once he begins.

General Don Shepperd, our military analyst, is also standing by. General Shepperd, just to recap for our viewers, our Walter Rodgers on the streets of Baghdad right now, reporting that four U.S. Marines seriously injured in the aftermath of a suicide bombing that occurred not far from the Palestine hotel in downtown Baghdad, the center of the city.

The Palestine Hotel now being famous, of course. That's where most of the foreign press corps, the international journalists are based. Clearly, it was audible from that site from where Walter Rodgers is, and he's quoting U.S. military officials as saying four U.S. Marines seriously injured. We don't know the extent of the injuries.

General Shepperd, you were saying before the Israelis certainly have had an enormous headache with suicide bombings over these many years. They have an excellent military. They've been unable to cope with it completely. I assume the U.S. military has tried to learn from some of the Israeli military experienced in dealing with this kind of military challenge; namely, suicide bombings?

SHEPPERD: Indeed they have, Wolf. But it's a different situation in Israel, where Israel has more residents than Palestinians and there are checkpoints to which people can come before they get into the populated areas. In the case of Baghdad, we have a very small number of forces now. Even though they look numerous, they're not a large number of forces in a city of five million essentially surrounded by people who could be full of suicide bombers.

This is a very, very difficult tactic. When you get people that are willing to commit suicide and blow themselves up in your presence, it is the most serious and most difficult threat to overcome, and there's no magic bullet to do it.

You spread security very carefully and very slowly. You disarm the population, and you produce confidence. And it takes time, Wolf. We're just at the very early stages.

BLITZER: All right. General, stand by a second. Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent, is joining us now.

Barbara, there's been one suicide bombing in the southern part of Iraq earlier in this war; there's been another one in the northern part of Iraq, killed a journalist, as well as some Kurds. Now in the center of Baghdad, Walter Rodgers, our embedded reporter, on the streets of Baghdad reporting four U.S. Marines seriously injured.

Going into this war there certainly was a great fear among the Central Command and other U.S. military officials that suicide bombings could become an enormous challenge. So far, three, as far as I can count, but it's probably still early in the game -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this had been one of the things that the U.S. military had been extremely concerned about. And even since yesterday, the scenes of euphoria and celebration in Baghdad, there had been constant warnings from the U.S. military that there could still be plenty of trouble ahead.

Even this morning, earlier today at the briefing at Central Command, they addressed the point that Baghdad is still a very dangerous place. Here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baghdad's still an ugly place. There are many parts of the city that are either not secured by U.S. forces, or are sort of unsecured at all, and there are other places in the city where we believe there's still pockets of remaining small elements of Republican Guard, Special Republican Guard and paramilitary forces. And that's really the objective of our operations in Baghdad now, is to go to those locations and return some stability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: That's really the problem for the military now, Wolf, is how to bring stability to the city, how to become somewhat of a security force without becoming too much of an overwhelming occupation force for the citizens of Baghdad -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara, there's going to be a Pentagon briefing later today. First of all, what time is that briefing and who are going to be the briefers?

STARR: It will be at 1:45 Eastern Time here in the United States. And today, in the regular routine rotation, we expect the Pentagon spokeswoman, Victoria Clark, and Brigadier General Stanley McChrystal of the Joint Staff to provide an operations update.

And we expect them to address the question also of what's been happening in northern Iraq, around the city of Kirkuk, where the Kurdish population has now apparently taken over most of the city. Very few U.S. military ground forces in northern Iraq. The situation there also moving rapidly ahead, and still plenty of Iraqi forces, including Republican Guard, for them to deal with in northern Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Barbara, please stand by. We're going to continue to cover this story.

Four U.S. Marines seriously injured, according to our Walter Rodgers, on the streets of Baghdad following a suicide bombing. Leon Harris is standing by in the CNN newsroom. He's got more -- Leon.

HARRIS: Yes, Wolf. That breaking story from Baghdad now pretty much underlining the words that we've gotten from the Pentagon, from CENTCOM in recent days about Baghdad still being a very dangerous place and there's still much to be done there.

We'll be going back to our Walt Rodgers in just a moment. But first we want to remind folks that we're waiting for the White House press briefing to begin. It should be getting underway any moment now. And when that does happen, we'll go there live.

In the meantime let's go back live to Baghdad. Walt Rodgers still standing by there in the dark there in Baghdad. Walt, give us the very latest on what you've been hearing there about this suicide bombing.

RODGERS: Hello, Leon. Well, the area we are in is a Marine checkpoint, so you can imagine the soldiers over my should are more than a little anxious. The hotel over there has locked out all reporters; so nervous is the hotel about a suicide bomb attack.

What happened, as I say, about 20 or 25 minutes ago, dusk here in Baghdad, U.S. Marines were on a checkpoint, and an Iraqi civilian walked up to them, simply detonated his explosives, killed himself, obviously, seriously injured four U.S. Marines. Now as for these suicide attacks, there have been actually many more than I think I've heard being discussed.

We heard a military briefing here with the various commanders in the U.S. Army, and they were warned against the Iraqis using ambulances and fire engines, emergency vehicles, as a kind of way to force their way in close to U.S. military convoys and blow themselves up. But I need to tell you, that every U.S. Marine standing guard in this city of Baghdad, every U.S. Army soldier, 3rd Infantry Division, is extraordinarily vulnerable to this.

And at night you can keep the civilian populous far enough back; you just don't let them anywhere near you. But in the daytime, the civilian populous believes it has the right to roam its own streets, and they come up to the Marine positions.

I've watched them all day seek permission to pass. The Marines have to have this social intercourse with them. They at least have to talk to them and tell them no, don't come any closer. Go away.

And was perfectly obvious, one suicide bomber slipped through, and the threat is very, very widespread here. Cars -- we're at a checkpoint, and all day long it's occurred to me, listen, some guy could walk up -- and there have been people walking up -- it's occurred to me we could get very badly blown up here as well -- Leon.

HARRIS: Well we're certainly hoping that's not going to be the case. Walt, we want you to be very careful. You, and whoever else is traveling with you. Please be very careful. We want to hear back from you later after you get some more information about this story.

In the meantime, let's go back to Wolf Blitzer, standing by in Kuwait City -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I can only echo what you're saying, Leon. I want all of our reporters obviously in Baghdad and around Iraq to be very, very careful. It's still a very dangerous time, despite the celebrations we all saw on television in Baghdad, elsewhere yesterday in Baghdad, and other cities in Iraq. Sill very, very dangerous.

Remember we're standing by for the White House briefing, expected to begin very, very soon. In the meantime, let's bring in our CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He's joining us from Washington.

Ken, a suicide bombing attempt -- not an attempt, an actual suicide bombing in Baghdad, not far from the Palestine Hotel. Four U.S. Marines seriously injured. We don't know the extent of those injuries. Is this something the U.S. military now in Iraq should be anticipating a lot more of in the days and weeks to come?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well certainly they've got to be anticipating more such attacks. And I think you're already seeing Walt Rodgers talking about the fact that they are taking ever-greater precautions to deal with it.

We have to remember there are still pockets of resistance out there, there are still Saddam's loyalists out there. And as Central Command was suggesting this morning, it's also important to remember that the war is not over in a geographic sense.

There are still Iraqi cities which are still under the regime's control. And in particular, Saddam's hometown of Tikrit is still not under coalition control. And certainly as long as all of those things are true, you've got to expect that there may be additional attacks like this.

BLITZER: Tikrit was always considered one of the most secure locations for Saddam Hussein, given the fact this his clan, the Tikriti clan has basically ruled Iraq for so many years. There's a lot of speculation, I don't know how serious it is, that Saddam Hussein himself and his two sons, had they survived the latest U.S. attempt to kill them, may have wound up, in fact, in Tikrit. What is your assessment?

POLLACK: Yes. I think that is the most -- obviously the most likely scenario, Wolf. The thing about Tikrit that makes it different from Baghdad is that in Baghdad what we saw was that most of the population of Baghdad was apathetic. They didn't particularly care for Saddam. Some of them welcomed U.S. forces; many of them seemed to welcome U.S. forces. Many others may not have necessarily liked the presence of U.S. forces, but they certainly weren't going to fight for Saddam.

In Tikrit, as best we understand it, it's a city of about 250,000 people, and they seem to actually genuinely like Saddam. Saddam is their favorite son, Saddam has done tremendous amounts for the people of Tikrit. So many of Saddam's inner circle come from Tikrit. So much of his Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard come from Tikrit.

They've all gotten all kinds of privileges and extra pay for it. And everyone's expectation is that, in Tikrit, what we may find is not only large numbers of Saddam loyalists, but an entire population that may be willing to actively support Saddam and his loyalists.

BLITZER: And earlier today, in the southern part of Iraq, in Najaf, two Shiite clerics were hacked to death by a crowd. Tell our viewers what happened. And as you do, give us some perspective what this might mean for the U.S. military inside Iraq.

POLLACK: Wolf, I want to honest with you, I do not have details about those attacks. I think it's premature to make any real statements. But the fact of the matter is this does speak to a larger issue inside Iraq, which is that Iraq is in many ways a traumatized society.

After 34 years of Saddam's role, during which Saddam played different groups against each other, we could see all kinds of retribution going on. Undoubtedly, there are going to be people both from inside Iraq and outside of Iraq who are going to come forward and try to stake a claim to rule in a new Iraqi government. And there are going to be people inside Iraq who are going to oppose that. And that opposition could express itself in the form of violence if coalition forces are not able to spread out across Iraq cities and ensure stability and order in all of those cities. BLITZER: One of those Shiite clerics was a Saddam loyalist. The other, though, was considered a moderate. Presumably they were getting together, according to widespread reports, Ken, to try to unite the Shiites in the face of the U.S. military victory there, the triumph in Najaf. But apparently some people in Najaf not happy with the Shiite cleric who was a Saddam loyalist, and taking their revenge, moving quickly on that front.

We're going to continue to monitor that development. Potentially significant, given the fact that the Shiites -- the Shia population of Iraq is still the majority in that country, especially in the south, especially in the eastern parts of Baghdad. The Sunni the minority, and we're getting back to that whole Tikriti clan; Saddam Hussein coming from Tikrit. It's obviously a hugely complicated situation.

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