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Kurds, U.S. Taking Northern Towns

Aired April 10, 2003 - 13:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Walter Rodgers tells us of four Marines seriously hurt late today in a suicide bombing near the Palestine Hotel. And from CENTCOM -- CENTCOM, word of a bloody clash earlier involving Marines near a fortified mosque. Rodgers says the Marines held up the U.S. Army's advance to the east today so they could finish -- quote -- "a mop-up work" after a frenetic 24 hours.
Walter Rodgers is joining us now live on the phone. He has got additional details -- Walter, tell us what is going on.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf. I talked to an eyewitness to the suicide bombing just before dusk here in downtown Baghdad. As you know, an Iraqi civilian approached a Marine post on the street -- and remember, there are Marines and U.S. Army soldiers throughout the city at various intersections and street corners. Appeared to be a normal Iraqi citizen. Walked up, and suddenly there was this explosion. The eyewitness with whom I spoke said it wasn't a particularly loud explosion. But of course, as I talked to one Marine officer, it doesn't take a lot of C-4 explosives and many nails to make it a savage and cutting attack on these four Marines. We are told they are seriously injured. That is the position of the Marine spokesman at this point. Four very seriously injured Marines, late afternoon suicide bombing in downtown Baghdad. I can tell you from having been here all day, U.S. Marines are extraordinarily vulnerable at these traffic circles and intersections in downtown Baghdad, as is the U.S. Army on the other side of the city -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What are they doing, basically, Walter? This is not a surprise. This is something the Marines, the soldiers, have come into Baghdad fully anticipating, fully bracing for. What else can they do to prevent these kinds of suicide bombing attacks?

RODGERS: Not very much. What they're doing at night -- and I'm at an intersection here, watching a Marine lighted up by the television lights. He's standing behind an M1A1 Abrams tank, and he's an easy target for a sniper because he's in full view of television lights.

These soldiers are extraordinarily vulnerable. What they do this time of the night, of course, is keep the Iraqi civilians away. But in the daytime, it's a much, much more difficult task. While the Marines guard intersections, the Iraqi citizens do have the run of the streets, and 99.9 percent of the Iraqi citizens have no malice towards the Marines or the U.S. soldiers. They merely want to use their streets as they normally would, except that when they come to a traffic circle or an intersection, they're shut down, and they are turned around and told you have to go back, you can't pass this intersection.

Nonetheless, the ability to walk up to a Marine and tell him that you'd like to go visit your mother on the other side of town or collect your car a few blocks away or go to your business, the Marine has to engage you in some sort of conversation, and that's what happens when they do -- a suicide bomber walks up and kills -- or injures, or maims in this case, very seriously injures, four Marines at dusk here -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Walter, you've spent many years covering the Middle East, you are our former Jerusalem bureau chief. Is this all representative or reminiscent of what you've covered in Israel, between the battles between the Israelis and the Palestinians?

RODGERS: Of course it is, Wolf. And it's the first thing you think of. I mean, I was hip deep in suicide bombings '96 and '97 in downtown Jerusalem, terribly gory, gruesome things. And what's happening is the U.S. soldiers on the streets of Baghdad are failing prey to these same sorts of savage attacks.

Now, one thing I need to add, Wolf, we don't know the perpetrator of this, whether this was an Iraqi with a grudge, or -- and he was trying to make a statement for Saddam Hussein. Remember, there had been messages on the Internet and stories out prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and those stories said that radical Islamist elements would try to exploit the American military operation. We don't know who this suicide bomber was, but it could have been an Iraqi who was a die-hard Saddam Hussein supporter, or it could have been an Islamist militant. And, remember, those are the ones who tend to perpetrate those attacks in Israel -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Walter Rodgers, on the scene for us now in Baghdad, reporting live. Walter, thanks very much. We'll be checking back with you.

We're standing by for a Pentagon briefing. Hopefully we'll get some more information about this suicide bombing attack.

Walter Rodgers reporting four U.S. Marines injured in this attack.

The Pentagon briefing coming up in about 35 minutes or so from now, 1:45 p.m. Eastern. CNN, of course, will have live coverage. Now back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Wolf. We're hearing less -- as we hear more about the ground fighting in Baghdad, we hear less about the air war over the capital city. But coalition bombing from the air in northern Iraq has, if anything, stepped up, over the last 24 hours. Also in the north, more activity on the part of the Kurdish guerrillas known as the Peshmerga. For the very latest from the north, we want to check in now with our Brent Sadler. He is in the town of Kalar (ph) -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Judy. Twenty-four hours ago, the skies over northern Iraq were filled with the sounds of heavy explosions and high-flying B-52 bombers. This evening, at sunset, I saw another of the B-52s, really more on a reconnaissance mission, possibly looking over the Tikrit area, a possible last bastion, stronghold of Saddam Hussein himself or even his loyalists.

What we have seen today, in the wake of those very heavy air strikes, the heaviest I've seen in the many weeks I've been here in northern Iraq, was a collapse of huge areas of Saddam Hussein's army in the north of Iraq, huge territorial areas opened up to the Iraqi Kurds, those Peshmerga guerrillas, concerns by the Turks about Peshmerga moves into the oil capital of Kirkuk, concerns about advances the Kurds have made there. But generally speaking, this has been a day of celebration and joy for many, many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds throughout these northern areas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): American Special Forces speed into newly liberated towns of northern Iraq, catching sight along the way of Iraqi friends, not foes, on a road to freedom. This is the Kurdish town of Khanaqin, some 80 miles north of Baghdad, overrun by Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, under the command of a new face in town, Jalal Talibani, one of the top Kurdish leaders.

Khanaqin was the first of the big northern towns to fall, thanks, they say here, to President George W. Bush. Remnants of the doomed regime fled the previous night. No one knows where they escaped to. And for now, at least, they don't seem to care.

(on camera): Scenes of jubilation are being repeated in towns and villages throughout northern Iraq. Once the capital Baghdad fell, the gravitational pull was simply too great. Saddam Hussein's power in the north crushed, his countless images machine-gunned into oblivion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We liberated today by the power of the American soldier, and the Peshmerga, the self-sacrificers, to liberate Khanaqin.

SADLER (voice-over): It's a day to remember and record, with a parade of the conventional -- and the unconventional on a historic day. For decades, they lived under the brutal whims of a tyrant. It will take time to adjust.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I am -- I am dreaming.

SADLER: But dreams could turn to nightmares, if law and order is not re-established soon. A wooden coffin holds the body of an Iraqi Arab, killed -- it's claimed here -- in a revenge attack by Iraqi Kurds. Old rivalries die hard, in a country that's reeling from the tremors of change, and the uncertainty that rings, even on this much celebrated day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Now, what I've been seeing in these areas and other parts is a very small presence of American Special Force troops taking up positions in some of the municipal buildings that were controlled by Saddam Hussein's loyalists. A Humvee parked up outside the building in Khanaqin earlier today, and soldiers really taking up positions, but not really knowing quite what to do. There were many Iraqis coming up to them, particularly Iraqi Arabs, complaining about that shooting. And you know, Judy, the soldiers do not have a political role to play here, of course, and they're really caught in the middle of this, and going back to what Walter Rodgers was saying about the exposure, the vulnerability of American troops on the ground here, Yes, they are very thinly spread and very much in between the crowds, in the crowds, in the centers of these people, coming here as liberators, but at the same time also many Iraqis wanting them to adjudicate on disputes that are going on on all sorts of levels. Also, one further point to make, as we moved about the areas today, I did see Iraqi soldiers, unarmed, really hanging around abandoned Iraqi military barracks, really looking confused and shocked about the changes that were going on. So you really have a real mixture of various elements of people who melted away from Iraq's loyalist Baathist party, some who perhaps have hung on, really not quite sure who's who, even amid those scenes of joy and celebration here -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So Brent, is it your sense that the Americans are more in charge, or the Kurdish fighters are more in charge in that area?

SADLER: Well, it's the people with the guns who are in charge, Judy, as is always the case in these sort of really anarchtic (ph) conditions very soon after the collapse of a regime that has been here for decades. I mean, what you are seeing are troops filling a vacuum. There aren't that many of them that can be counted in hundreds, really, right across the northern areas. There's no significant troop presence in these newly liberated areas, nor is there any significant troop presence south of these liberated areas between here and Baghdad. And that really is a substantial problem. And as far as the Kurds are concerned, they said before the conflict created the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime that the Kurds, if they took places like Kirkuk, if they moved in, they would pretty quickly hand over to U.S. administration. But you know, many Iraqis are asking, where is that administration? How long is it going to take to get into place, and what might happen in the meantime?

Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right. Brent Sadler reporting -- fresh reporting for us from northern Iraq.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired April 10, 2003 - 13:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Walter Rodgers tells us of four Marines seriously hurt late today in a suicide bombing near the Palestine Hotel. And from CENTCOM -- CENTCOM, word of a bloody clash earlier involving Marines near a fortified mosque. Rodgers says the Marines held up the U.S. Army's advance to the east today so they could finish -- quote -- "a mop-up work" after a frenetic 24 hours.
Walter Rodgers is joining us now live on the phone. He has got additional details -- Walter, tell us what is going on.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf. I talked to an eyewitness to the suicide bombing just before dusk here in downtown Baghdad. As you know, an Iraqi civilian approached a Marine post on the street -- and remember, there are Marines and U.S. Army soldiers throughout the city at various intersections and street corners. Appeared to be a normal Iraqi citizen. Walked up, and suddenly there was this explosion. The eyewitness with whom I spoke said it wasn't a particularly loud explosion. But of course, as I talked to one Marine officer, it doesn't take a lot of C-4 explosives and many nails to make it a savage and cutting attack on these four Marines. We are told they are seriously injured. That is the position of the Marine spokesman at this point. Four very seriously injured Marines, late afternoon suicide bombing in downtown Baghdad. I can tell you from having been here all day, U.S. Marines are extraordinarily vulnerable at these traffic circles and intersections in downtown Baghdad, as is the U.S. Army on the other side of the city -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What are they doing, basically, Walter? This is not a surprise. This is something the Marines, the soldiers, have come into Baghdad fully anticipating, fully bracing for. What else can they do to prevent these kinds of suicide bombing attacks?

RODGERS: Not very much. What they're doing at night -- and I'm at an intersection here, watching a Marine lighted up by the television lights. He's standing behind an M1A1 Abrams tank, and he's an easy target for a sniper because he's in full view of television lights.

These soldiers are extraordinarily vulnerable. What they do this time of the night, of course, is keep the Iraqi civilians away. But in the daytime, it's a much, much more difficult task. While the Marines guard intersections, the Iraqi citizens do have the run of the streets, and 99.9 percent of the Iraqi citizens have no malice towards the Marines or the U.S. soldiers. They merely want to use their streets as they normally would, except that when they come to a traffic circle or an intersection, they're shut down, and they are turned around and told you have to go back, you can't pass this intersection.

Nonetheless, the ability to walk up to a Marine and tell him that you'd like to go visit your mother on the other side of town or collect your car a few blocks away or go to your business, the Marine has to engage you in some sort of conversation, and that's what happens when they do -- a suicide bomber walks up and kills -- or injures, or maims in this case, very seriously injures, four Marines at dusk here -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Walter, you've spent many years covering the Middle East, you are our former Jerusalem bureau chief. Is this all representative or reminiscent of what you've covered in Israel, between the battles between the Israelis and the Palestinians?

RODGERS: Of course it is, Wolf. And it's the first thing you think of. I mean, I was hip deep in suicide bombings '96 and '97 in downtown Jerusalem, terribly gory, gruesome things. And what's happening is the U.S. soldiers on the streets of Baghdad are failing prey to these same sorts of savage attacks.

Now, one thing I need to add, Wolf, we don't know the perpetrator of this, whether this was an Iraqi with a grudge, or -- and he was trying to make a statement for Saddam Hussein. Remember, there had been messages on the Internet and stories out prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and those stories said that radical Islamist elements would try to exploit the American military operation. We don't know who this suicide bomber was, but it could have been an Iraqi who was a die-hard Saddam Hussein supporter, or it could have been an Islamist militant. And, remember, those are the ones who tend to perpetrate those attacks in Israel -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Walter Rodgers, on the scene for us now in Baghdad, reporting live. Walter, thanks very much. We'll be checking back with you.

We're standing by for a Pentagon briefing. Hopefully we'll get some more information about this suicide bombing attack.

Walter Rodgers reporting four U.S. Marines injured in this attack.

The Pentagon briefing coming up in about 35 minutes or so from now, 1:45 p.m. Eastern. CNN, of course, will have live coverage. Now back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thank you, Wolf. We're hearing less -- as we hear more about the ground fighting in Baghdad, we hear less about the air war over the capital city. But coalition bombing from the air in northern Iraq has, if anything, stepped up, over the last 24 hours. Also in the north, more activity on the part of the Kurdish guerrillas known as the Peshmerga. For the very latest from the north, we want to check in now with our Brent Sadler. He is in the town of Kalar (ph) -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Judy. Twenty-four hours ago, the skies over northern Iraq were filled with the sounds of heavy explosions and high-flying B-52 bombers. This evening, at sunset, I saw another of the B-52s, really more on a reconnaissance mission, possibly looking over the Tikrit area, a possible last bastion, stronghold of Saddam Hussein himself or even his loyalists.

What we have seen today, in the wake of those very heavy air strikes, the heaviest I've seen in the many weeks I've been here in northern Iraq, was a collapse of huge areas of Saddam Hussein's army in the north of Iraq, huge territorial areas opened up to the Iraqi Kurds, those Peshmerga guerrillas, concerns by the Turks about Peshmerga moves into the oil capital of Kirkuk, concerns about advances the Kurds have made there. But generally speaking, this has been a day of celebration and joy for many, many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds throughout these northern areas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): American Special Forces speed into newly liberated towns of northern Iraq, catching sight along the way of Iraqi friends, not foes, on a road to freedom. This is the Kurdish town of Khanaqin, some 80 miles north of Baghdad, overrun by Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, under the command of a new face in town, Jalal Talibani, one of the top Kurdish leaders.

Khanaqin was the first of the big northern towns to fall, thanks, they say here, to President George W. Bush. Remnants of the doomed regime fled the previous night. No one knows where they escaped to. And for now, at least, they don't seem to care.

(on camera): Scenes of jubilation are being repeated in towns and villages throughout northern Iraq. Once the capital Baghdad fell, the gravitational pull was simply too great. Saddam Hussein's power in the north crushed, his countless images machine-gunned into oblivion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We liberated today by the power of the American soldier, and the Peshmerga, the self-sacrificers, to liberate Khanaqin.

SADLER (voice-over): It's a day to remember and record, with a parade of the conventional -- and the unconventional on a historic day. For decades, they lived under the brutal whims of a tyrant. It will take time to adjust.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I am -- I am dreaming.

SADLER: But dreams could turn to nightmares, if law and order is not re-established soon. A wooden coffin holds the body of an Iraqi Arab, killed -- it's claimed here -- in a revenge attack by Iraqi Kurds. Old rivalries die hard, in a country that's reeling from the tremors of change, and the uncertainty that rings, even on this much celebrated day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Now, what I've been seeing in these areas and other parts is a very small presence of American Special Force troops taking up positions in some of the municipal buildings that were controlled by Saddam Hussein's loyalists. A Humvee parked up outside the building in Khanaqin earlier today, and soldiers really taking up positions, but not really knowing quite what to do. There were many Iraqis coming up to them, particularly Iraqi Arabs, complaining about that shooting. And you know, Judy, the soldiers do not have a political role to play here, of course, and they're really caught in the middle of this, and going back to what Walter Rodgers was saying about the exposure, the vulnerability of American troops on the ground here, Yes, they are very thinly spread and very much in between the crowds, in the crowds, in the centers of these people, coming here as liberators, but at the same time also many Iraqis wanting them to adjudicate on disputes that are going on on all sorts of levels. Also, one further point to make, as we moved about the areas today, I did see Iraqi soldiers, unarmed, really hanging around abandoned Iraqi military barracks, really looking confused and shocked about the changes that were going on. So you really have a real mixture of various elements of people who melted away from Iraq's loyalist Baathist party, some who perhaps have hung on, really not quite sure who's who, even amid those scenes of joy and celebration here -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So Brent, is it your sense that the Americans are more in charge, or the Kurdish fighters are more in charge in that area?

SADLER: Well, it's the people with the guns who are in charge, Judy, as is always the case in these sort of really anarchtic (ph) conditions very soon after the collapse of a regime that has been here for decades. I mean, what you are seeing are troops filling a vacuum. There aren't that many of them that can be counted in hundreds, really, right across the northern areas. There's no significant troop presence in these newly liberated areas, nor is there any significant troop presence south of these liberated areas between here and Baghdad. And that really is a substantial problem. And as far as the Kurds are concerned, they said before the conflict created the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime that the Kurds, if they took places like Kirkuk, if they moved in, they would pretty quickly hand over to U.S. administration. But you know, many Iraqis are asking, where is that administration? How long is it going to take to get into place, and what might happen in the meantime?

Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right. Brent Sadler reporting -- fresh reporting for us from northern Iraq.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com