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Suicide Bombings, Looting In Post-Saddam Iraq
Aired April 10, 2003 - 14:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, what do you make of all this?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we were just talking about that. There's a lot to assimilate right now -- lots of things going on -- and Don Shepperd is going to help us sort it out.
First of all, let's talk about this Mosul surrender. We don't know a lot about this 5th Corps. We're talking about regular Iraqi army conscripts -- not this Republican Guard, much less the Special Republican Guard.
What kind of a fighting force might that be?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, reportedly, it's four divisions -- three infantry divisions, one mechanized infantry division. That would be about 40,000 troops.
Also, there's talk about Republican Guard divisions -- or what's left of them -- assembling up here in this area. This would be a very, very important surrender -- that you don't have to show that psychological operations are working, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, so presumably what we're seeing then if, in fact, this surrender -- what Ken Robinson is reporting -- bears itself out, real implosion of the Iraqi forces to whatever extent they're left. Which really brings us back to Tikrit and the possibility -- this, of course, being the hometown of Saddam Hussein, his tribe, his cousins, everybody there -- lots of money spent there on his fortress compounds there with multiple palaces. Could that end up being a real focal point for the days ahead?
SHEPPERD: It could be. Reportedly, the Adnon Mechanized Infantry Division was the main force basically defending Tikrit and his ancestral home and all the palaces there.
It could be a retreat where he -- where Saddam's -- last stand would take place if the Adnon is still in existence and cannot be decimated by air power. It could be a real fight.
O'BRIEN: And Adnon, presumably, as a Republican Guard entity better equipped, better paid, and all that like, and so possibly a stronger fight may life in store there. But we don't know.
Let's get quickly back to that issue of the POWs, which is an issue that just -- it persists and it's very troubling.
What are your thoughts? Is it possible they might turn up as hostages in some way, shape, or form?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely. Those people are very valuable to whoever has them. They have all sorts of bargaining power with them. If they are protecting those people and can turn them over to U.S. forces that are all sorts of power. So we really hope that somebody has these forces and are moving them around out of reach of the U.S. forces now. We are trying to get intelligence to find out where they are to go get them.
O'BRIEN: All right. In a sense, their value as bargaining chips helps, doesn't it, in some sense?
SHEPPERD: Yes. To help keep them alive. Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: All right. Don Shepperd, thank you very much.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles. Thanks to General Shepperd as well.
The warnings about the dangers of a post-Saddam Baghdad are, apparently, coming true. A suicide bomber is seriously wounded. Four U.S. Marines -- and one Marine was killed -- in a separate, fierce firefight that wounded many others.
More looting also has broken out, and it appears little is being done to stop that. Among the targets blundered today, the home of Tariq Aziz -- one of Saddam Hussein's longtime deputies. The whereabouts of the country's former rulers -- still unknown.
CNN Christiane Amanpour standing by live now in Baghdad. To give us more on these late-breaking developments.
Christiane, it looks like a hectic situation, a bit chaotic there. Tell us what's going on.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we had been told that the main concern now from commanders and from the U.S. forces on the ground and particularly the Marines where we are, was the threat from so-called irregulars, so-called nonconventionals -- in other words, suicide bombers, those Fedayeen and others who may have slunk back into the civilian community and used that as cover to attack them.
And certainly tonight, there is confirmation that there was a suicide bombing not far from where we are now. We are here at the Palestine Hotel, which is pretty heavily fortified with the Marines present, tanks on the streets, and lots of troops inside and around.
But not so far away in Saddam's city, a few hours ago, there was this suicide attack. And what happened, we're told by a senior spokesman for the Marines, was that an individual -- a man -- had explosives strapped to his body, approached the Marine checkpoint, and then decimated those explosives. And so far, we're told, that four Marines were wounded. We don't have any more details than that. We do not know yet the extent of those injuries, and there have been conflicting reports about whether there were any fatalities. But we, at this point, are being told by the 1st Division Marine spokesman that there are, at this point, just wounded -- four Marines wounded.
He also said that there is a lot of threat in the area towards them, and they are going to have to be prepared for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. JOE PLENZER, U.S. MARINES: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy who's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has, we expected all the dirty tricks we've seen.
And we've received schools full of explosives. We've had women and children pushed out in front of gunmen. You know, they've basically done everything they could to incite and cause as much collateral damage.
And in fact, yesterday the Iraqis were shelling Saddam's city -- you know, try to kill Shias. You know, that was expected. So we take that in stride, and we accomplished our mission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So there he was talking about ammunition and weapons. At one point, he told us that in two schools today they found enough weapons and ammunition to fill -- quote -- "seven seven-ton military trucks."
And they have been exploding those pieces of ammunition and weapons to destroy them, and to get them out of the potential hands of anybody else. And we've heard quite a few explosions around the city as they've been exploding those pieces of ammunition that I was talking about.
In addition, there was a firefight between the Marines and -- we understand -- some militias who had been held up in a mosque here in Baghdad earlier today. We were told by some senior commanders that that is what had happened, and there were some casualties taken by the Marines in that instance as well.
Now, of course, the looting continues as well in this city as it has in other major cities that have been liberated. There is a big security vacuum, and there is no presence to police. And the Marines admit that they are stretched, that they are fighting still a war, and that they do not have the ability to perform police functions -- nor do the Army, which is on the other side of Baghdad.
So today, looters went to the house of Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister -- or rather, former deputy prime minister -- because many people in the west will know him as the English-speaking face of the Saddam regime. In any event, went to his house, took what they could. It's pretty much stripped bare now. But even beyond, now, government property and the property of officials in the previous regime, the looting is spreading to private property, to embassies, to a UNICEF compound. There's been some buildings set on fire.
And more worryingly -- certainly for officials here and the humanitarian concerns -- the hospitals are being looted. There have been quite considerable civilian casualties, we are told. Hospitals have been full of casualties, and a lot of the medicine and equipment has been looted in the last few days. And so people are very, very concerned about that, Wolf.
BLITZER: And so what are they doing about that, if anything -- the U.S. military? I know they got their hands full just trying to keep a semblance of security on the streets of Baghdad.
But has anyone, as far as you can tell, Christiane -- and I know you've only been there for a relatively brief amount of time, but based on what you've heard -- are the U.S. Marines or soldiers doing something to try to aggressively stop the looting?
AMANPOUR: Not really. Not aggressively stop it. And, as I say, they're stretched. They don't have that ability, or at least they say they don't have the ability, to police. And you can see, definitely, that there is quite a lot of concern amongst them, and they know that they can't really do that job at the moment. Or, they're not doing it.
And one of the people we were talking to today, the Marine spokesman, said, "Look, it's a situation" -- he called it a "flock" -- "where it's the end of one and the beginning of another regime" -- you know -- "who's in control," and the full establishment of control of the U.S. military has yet to take place.
So the opportunistic looting that's going on is quite widespread. And even in the short time that we've been here on our drive into the city, certainly, we saw an enormous amount of looting going on and the booty, if you like, of what had been stolen, being taken to people's houses in the outskirts of the city and the suburbs of the city. So it's very, very widespread.
One Iraqi here mentioned that he thought, perhaps, one way to try to do something about it would be to get the U.S. to get some radio frequencies up and running -- those that the Iraqis generally listen to -- and broadcast appeals and instructions and those kinds of things to try to at least establish some semblance of civil order.
BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour with the latest in Baghdad, where it seems to be a pretty chaotic situation, still, despite the joyous celebration we saw yesterday with the apparent removal of any last semblance of the Iraqi government in the capital of Iraq.
Christiane, thanks very much.
Let's send it back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 10, 2003 - 14:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, what do you make of all this?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we were just talking about that. There's a lot to assimilate right now -- lots of things going on -- and Don Shepperd is going to help us sort it out.
First of all, let's talk about this Mosul surrender. We don't know a lot about this 5th Corps. We're talking about regular Iraqi army conscripts -- not this Republican Guard, much less the Special Republican Guard.
What kind of a fighting force might that be?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, reportedly, it's four divisions -- three infantry divisions, one mechanized infantry division. That would be about 40,000 troops.
Also, there's talk about Republican Guard divisions -- or what's left of them -- assembling up here in this area. This would be a very, very important surrender -- that you don't have to show that psychological operations are working, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, so presumably what we're seeing then if, in fact, this surrender -- what Ken Robinson is reporting -- bears itself out, real implosion of the Iraqi forces to whatever extent they're left. Which really brings us back to Tikrit and the possibility -- this, of course, being the hometown of Saddam Hussein, his tribe, his cousins, everybody there -- lots of money spent there on his fortress compounds there with multiple palaces. Could that end up being a real focal point for the days ahead?
SHEPPERD: It could be. Reportedly, the Adnon Mechanized Infantry Division was the main force basically defending Tikrit and his ancestral home and all the palaces there.
It could be a retreat where he -- where Saddam's -- last stand would take place if the Adnon is still in existence and cannot be decimated by air power. It could be a real fight.
O'BRIEN: And Adnon, presumably, as a Republican Guard entity better equipped, better paid, and all that like, and so possibly a stronger fight may life in store there. But we don't know.
Let's get quickly back to that issue of the POWs, which is an issue that just -- it persists and it's very troubling.
What are your thoughts? Is it possible they might turn up as hostages in some way, shape, or form?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely. Those people are very valuable to whoever has them. They have all sorts of bargaining power with them. If they are protecting those people and can turn them over to U.S. forces that are all sorts of power. So we really hope that somebody has these forces and are moving them around out of reach of the U.S. forces now. We are trying to get intelligence to find out where they are to go get them.
O'BRIEN: All right. In a sense, their value as bargaining chips helps, doesn't it, in some sense?
SHEPPERD: Yes. To help keep them alive. Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: All right. Don Shepperd, thank you very much.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Miles. Thanks to General Shepperd as well.
The warnings about the dangers of a post-Saddam Baghdad are, apparently, coming true. A suicide bomber is seriously wounded. Four U.S. Marines -- and one Marine was killed -- in a separate, fierce firefight that wounded many others.
More looting also has broken out, and it appears little is being done to stop that. Among the targets blundered today, the home of Tariq Aziz -- one of Saddam Hussein's longtime deputies. The whereabouts of the country's former rulers -- still unknown.
CNN Christiane Amanpour standing by live now in Baghdad. To give us more on these late-breaking developments.
Christiane, it looks like a hectic situation, a bit chaotic there. Tell us what's going on.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we had been told that the main concern now from commanders and from the U.S. forces on the ground and particularly the Marines where we are, was the threat from so-called irregulars, so-called nonconventionals -- in other words, suicide bombers, those Fedayeen and others who may have slunk back into the civilian community and used that as cover to attack them.
And certainly tonight, there is confirmation that there was a suicide bombing not far from where we are now. We are here at the Palestine Hotel, which is pretty heavily fortified with the Marines present, tanks on the streets, and lots of troops inside and around.
But not so far away in Saddam's city, a few hours ago, there was this suicide attack. And what happened, we're told by a senior spokesman for the Marines, was that an individual -- a man -- had explosives strapped to his body, approached the Marine checkpoint, and then decimated those explosives. And so far, we're told, that four Marines were wounded. We don't have any more details than that. We do not know yet the extent of those injuries, and there have been conflicting reports about whether there were any fatalities. But we, at this point, are being told by the 1st Division Marine spokesman that there are, at this point, just wounded -- four Marines wounded.
He also said that there is a lot of threat in the area towards them, and they are going to have to be prepared for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. JOE PLENZER, U.S. MARINES: We came into this fight knowing that when you're dealing with a guy who's been systematically raping and torturing his own people for as long as he has, we expected all the dirty tricks we've seen.
And we've received schools full of explosives. We've had women and children pushed out in front of gunmen. You know, they've basically done everything they could to incite and cause as much collateral damage.
And in fact, yesterday the Iraqis were shelling Saddam's city -- you know, try to kill Shias. You know, that was expected. So we take that in stride, and we accomplished our mission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So there he was talking about ammunition and weapons. At one point, he told us that in two schools today they found enough weapons and ammunition to fill -- quote -- "seven seven-ton military trucks."
And they have been exploding those pieces of ammunition and weapons to destroy them, and to get them out of the potential hands of anybody else. And we've heard quite a few explosions around the city as they've been exploding those pieces of ammunition that I was talking about.
In addition, there was a firefight between the Marines and -- we understand -- some militias who had been held up in a mosque here in Baghdad earlier today. We were told by some senior commanders that that is what had happened, and there were some casualties taken by the Marines in that instance as well.
Now, of course, the looting continues as well in this city as it has in other major cities that have been liberated. There is a big security vacuum, and there is no presence to police. And the Marines admit that they are stretched, that they are fighting still a war, and that they do not have the ability to perform police functions -- nor do the Army, which is on the other side of Baghdad.
So today, looters went to the house of Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister -- or rather, former deputy prime minister -- because many people in the west will know him as the English-speaking face of the Saddam regime. In any event, went to his house, took what they could. It's pretty much stripped bare now. But even beyond, now, government property and the property of officials in the previous regime, the looting is spreading to private property, to embassies, to a UNICEF compound. There's been some buildings set on fire.
And more worryingly -- certainly for officials here and the humanitarian concerns -- the hospitals are being looted. There have been quite considerable civilian casualties, we are told. Hospitals have been full of casualties, and a lot of the medicine and equipment has been looted in the last few days. And so people are very, very concerned about that, Wolf.
BLITZER: And so what are they doing about that, if anything -- the U.S. military? I know they got their hands full just trying to keep a semblance of security on the streets of Baghdad.
But has anyone, as far as you can tell, Christiane -- and I know you've only been there for a relatively brief amount of time, but based on what you've heard -- are the U.S. Marines or soldiers doing something to try to aggressively stop the looting?
AMANPOUR: Not really. Not aggressively stop it. And, as I say, they're stretched. They don't have that ability, or at least they say they don't have the ability, to police. And you can see, definitely, that there is quite a lot of concern amongst them, and they know that they can't really do that job at the moment. Or, they're not doing it.
And one of the people we were talking to today, the Marine spokesman, said, "Look, it's a situation" -- he called it a "flock" -- "where it's the end of one and the beginning of another regime" -- you know -- "who's in control," and the full establishment of control of the U.S. military has yet to take place.
So the opportunistic looting that's going on is quite widespread. And even in the short time that we've been here on our drive into the city, certainly, we saw an enormous amount of looting going on and the booty, if you like, of what had been stolen, being taken to people's houses in the outskirts of the city and the suburbs of the city. So it's very, very widespread.
One Iraqi here mentioned that he thought, perhaps, one way to try to do something about it would be to get the U.S. to get some radio frequencies up and running -- those that the Iraqis generally listen to -- and broadcast appeals and instructions and those kinds of things to try to at least establish some semblance of civil order.
BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour with the latest in Baghdad, where it seems to be a pretty chaotic situation, still, despite the joyous celebration we saw yesterday with the apparent removal of any last semblance of the Iraqi government in the capital of Iraq.
Christiane, thanks very much.
Let's send it back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
