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Analysis With Fawaz Gerges
Aired April 10, 2003 - 14:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One of the next steps in this war is to install a new Iraqi leadership. How much influence, if any, will American policy and culture have on that new government?
We turn now to Fawaz Gerges for analysis. He's the author of "America and Political Islam: Clash of Cultures or Clash of Interests?" He's also the chairman of the international affairs and Middle Eastern studies program at Sarah Lawrence College.
Thanks very much, professor, for joining us. Once again, how difficult of a challenge is this for the U.S. and coalition forces?
FAWAZ GERGES, AUTHOR, "AMERICA AND POLITICAL ISLAM": Well, as you know, Wolf, today the suicide bombing and the assassination of Abdul Majid al Koei (ph) in Najaf, I think, should serve as what I call to dampen the sense of euphoria that has swept the United States in the last 24 hours.
Even though the military, the formal military campaign appears to be coming to an end, it seems the next struggle -- that is to secure the peace, to provide law and order, to begin the process of social and political reconstruction is likely to be costly for long and much riskier than expected.
BLITZER: Well, how -- how big of a threat are these suicide bombers? We saw this incident today in Baghdad, as you -- as you referred to. But is this -- are these going to be just isolated incidents or this call for jihad and the call for non-Iraqi Arabs, in effect, to join the struggle against the United States and the coalition, including suicide bombing attacks -- do you sense that's going to be on the upswing.
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, we don't know. We are just speculating at this particular stage.
For example, what are the resources that the Iraqi state and regime have in process? That is, will Iraq turn into a symbol of Muslim resistance against a prolonged military American presence, similar to that of Afghanistan for the Soviets? How many Arab young men are in Baghdad and Iraq willing to confront and resist American -- the American occupation?
And it all depends, Wolf, on the following steps: what the United States does in the next few days, next few weeks and next few months will go a long way either to convince Iraqis and Arabs that the United States is genuine about really helping Iraqis to rebuild their lives and reconstruct state and society or reinforce widely held perception of American imperialism.
The big question on the table is the following: what will the United States do in the next few weeks and next few months in order to begin the process of reconstruction, to help Iraqis to govern their countries and to begin the difficult and costly process of social and political reconstruction?
BLITZER: Well, what's the most important thing that the United States must do, as far as you're concerned, to achieve that goal in the next few days?
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, there are short-term initiatives and long-term initiatives.
The short-term initiatives are the following: U.S. forces must secure the peace and provide law and order. As your, you know, correspondents have made it very clear, it's not enough for American commanders to say that the United States does not serve as a policing force. After all, it was the United States that had destroyed the existing institution. American forces, under the Geneva convention, do not just have the moral responsibilities, but the legal responsibilities to provide law and order and stop the widespread looting and anarchy in Iraq. This is in the short-term: secure the peace, provide law and order, bring international humanitarian aid to help Iraqis -- at least convince Iraqis that the United States is trying to help them.
Long-term: empower Iraqi civil society, let the Iraqis find formulas to govern their country, double the United States efforts to really bring the Palestinians and the Israelis into the negotiating table, help the Palestinians find a ray of hope at the end of the tunnel. Stop the bloodshed, particularly Jewish and blood shedding of Palestinian and Jewish blood.
I think there are two steps, short-term and long-term. And the short-term, secure the peace, provide law and order, bring international aid organizations. And long term, of course, we know what needs to be done.
The question is, will the American foreign policy establishment rise up to the challenge in both the short term and the long term as well?
BLITZER: One final question, Professor Gerges. All of those steps, by my account, that you put forward, the Bush administration, the president of the United States, the secretary of state, the defense secretary, they say those are indeed the goals of the U.S.
The question is this: there is a process now that's about to begin. The retired U.S. Army General Jay Garner's got a grip of American government, non-government officials. They're coming into Iraq within the coming days to try to begin this transition. Is that going to work?
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, words are not enough. We need to witness deeds here. How do you convince Iraqis and Arabs and Muslims that there is stability in Iraq while, as you know, there's a widespread looting process, a state of anarchy. And here you have General Garner, who says he would like to leave Iraq in 90 days. On the one hand, you have Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense -- he says, The U.S. Army would stay in Iraq much longer than six months. You have -- you have Ahmad Chalabi, one of the leading Iraqi forces. He would like the American forces to stay for more than two years.
It seems to me -- this confusion tells me that the Bush administration has not invested as much time and effort in thinking about plans to run post-Hussein Iraq as it did on its military plans. Let's hope that America policymakers now try to empower Iraqi civil society, empower Iraqis to meet -- Iraqis inside the country. And, of course, along with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) opposition groups to meet, consult and find formulas to govern and run Iraq, not only in the next few weeks, but also in the longterm as well, Wolf.
BLITZER: Professor Fawaz Gerges of Sarah -- Sarah Lawrence College. Thanks so much for joining u,s as always.
GERGES: My pleasure, Wolf.
BLITZER: Judy, a lot to think about in those brief few moments.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 10, 2003 - 14:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One of the next steps in this war is to install a new Iraqi leadership. How much influence, if any, will American policy and culture have on that new government?
We turn now to Fawaz Gerges for analysis. He's the author of "America and Political Islam: Clash of Cultures or Clash of Interests?" He's also the chairman of the international affairs and Middle Eastern studies program at Sarah Lawrence College.
Thanks very much, professor, for joining us. Once again, how difficult of a challenge is this for the U.S. and coalition forces?
FAWAZ GERGES, AUTHOR, "AMERICA AND POLITICAL ISLAM": Well, as you know, Wolf, today the suicide bombing and the assassination of Abdul Majid al Koei (ph) in Najaf, I think, should serve as what I call to dampen the sense of euphoria that has swept the United States in the last 24 hours.
Even though the military, the formal military campaign appears to be coming to an end, it seems the next struggle -- that is to secure the peace, to provide law and order, to begin the process of social and political reconstruction is likely to be costly for long and much riskier than expected.
BLITZER: Well, how -- how big of a threat are these suicide bombers? We saw this incident today in Baghdad, as you -- as you referred to. But is this -- are these going to be just isolated incidents or this call for jihad and the call for non-Iraqi Arabs, in effect, to join the struggle against the United States and the coalition, including suicide bombing attacks -- do you sense that's going to be on the upswing.
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, we don't know. We are just speculating at this particular stage.
For example, what are the resources that the Iraqi state and regime have in process? That is, will Iraq turn into a symbol of Muslim resistance against a prolonged military American presence, similar to that of Afghanistan for the Soviets? How many Arab young men are in Baghdad and Iraq willing to confront and resist American -- the American occupation?
And it all depends, Wolf, on the following steps: what the United States does in the next few days, next few weeks and next few months will go a long way either to convince Iraqis and Arabs that the United States is genuine about really helping Iraqis to rebuild their lives and reconstruct state and society or reinforce widely held perception of American imperialism.
The big question on the table is the following: what will the United States do in the next few weeks and next few months in order to begin the process of reconstruction, to help Iraqis to govern their countries and to begin the difficult and costly process of social and political reconstruction?
BLITZER: Well, what's the most important thing that the United States must do, as far as you're concerned, to achieve that goal in the next few days?
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, there are short-term initiatives and long-term initiatives.
The short-term initiatives are the following: U.S. forces must secure the peace and provide law and order. As your, you know, correspondents have made it very clear, it's not enough for American commanders to say that the United States does not serve as a policing force. After all, it was the United States that had destroyed the existing institution. American forces, under the Geneva convention, do not just have the moral responsibilities, but the legal responsibilities to provide law and order and stop the widespread looting and anarchy in Iraq. This is in the short-term: secure the peace, provide law and order, bring international humanitarian aid to help Iraqis -- at least convince Iraqis that the United States is trying to help them.
Long-term: empower Iraqi civil society, let the Iraqis find formulas to govern their country, double the United States efforts to really bring the Palestinians and the Israelis into the negotiating table, help the Palestinians find a ray of hope at the end of the tunnel. Stop the bloodshed, particularly Jewish and blood shedding of Palestinian and Jewish blood.
I think there are two steps, short-term and long-term. And the short-term, secure the peace, provide law and order, bring international aid organizations. And long term, of course, we know what needs to be done.
The question is, will the American foreign policy establishment rise up to the challenge in both the short term and the long term as well?
BLITZER: One final question, Professor Gerges. All of those steps, by my account, that you put forward, the Bush administration, the president of the United States, the secretary of state, the defense secretary, they say those are indeed the goals of the U.S.
The question is this: there is a process now that's about to begin. The retired U.S. Army General Jay Garner's got a grip of American government, non-government officials. They're coming into Iraq within the coming days to try to begin this transition. Is that going to work?
GERGES: Well, you know, Wolf, words are not enough. We need to witness deeds here. How do you convince Iraqis and Arabs and Muslims that there is stability in Iraq while, as you know, there's a widespread looting process, a state of anarchy. And here you have General Garner, who says he would like to leave Iraq in 90 days. On the one hand, you have Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense -- he says, The U.S. Army would stay in Iraq much longer than six months. You have -- you have Ahmad Chalabi, one of the leading Iraqi forces. He would like the American forces to stay for more than two years.
It seems to me -- this confusion tells me that the Bush administration has not invested as much time and effort in thinking about plans to run post-Hussein Iraq as it did on its military plans. Let's hope that America policymakers now try to empower Iraqi civil society, empower Iraqis to meet -- Iraqis inside the country. And, of course, along with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) opposition groups to meet, consult and find formulas to govern and run Iraq, not only in the next few weeks, but also in the longterm as well, Wolf.
BLITZER: Professor Fawaz Gerges of Sarah -- Sarah Lawrence College. Thanks so much for joining u,s as always.
GERGES: My pleasure, Wolf.
BLITZER: Judy, a lot to think about in those brief few moments.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
