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Looting in Baghdad, Mosul
Aired April 11, 2003 - 12:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As U.S. and coalition forces advance more and more into Iraqi cities, the pressure to bring about law and order increases. And, as we said, in Baghdad what's been described as a sense of lawlessness still clearly hangs over the entire city. U.S. forces are discovering more hidden dangers as well.
CNN's Walter Rodgers begins our coverage from the Iraqi capital this hour -- Walter.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf. A short while ago, the International Committee of the Red Cross issued a statement saying -- quote -- "we are profoundly alarmed at the chaos we are seeing in this city. There has been a total collapse of the hospital structure in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad."
We understand, according to an ICRC spokesman, that only one hospital is up and operating at this time because of looting. That one hospital is only operating because there are coalition tanks, U.S. Army and Marine tanks around the hospital protecting it. Otherwise, every other hospital in the city of Baghdad, according to an ICRC spokesman, refuses to open. Each of the hospitals has been looted. When I asked why, I was told that the looting is the result of the Iraqis figuring that with the government gone, they can take whatever they want from the government now.
What we have been told however, is that most doctors and nurses simply are too terrified to go to work at this point. The Iraqis have already looted their national museum. They have looted the national treasury, the national bank. There have been fires set in those buildings. There have been big black plumes of smoke burning all over town, fires set by the looters.
Earlier in the day, I talked to Colonel Steven Hummer, 7th U.S. Marine regimental unit here doing duty, asked him what the Marines could do about this? What he said was, We cannot shoot the looters, and we don't have enough Marines on the streets to put down the looting as it is. His best hope was meetings he had with Iraqi civic officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. STEVEN HUMMER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We can stop the looting, and that is by our sheer presence. Again, we don't have enough Marines right now to cover every building, every storefront. So we're trying to maintain certain areas. Hospitals, key infrastructure areas, certain government buildings, things like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RODGERS: Colonel Hummer did say that he thought perhaps some order must be restored in the city within the next 24 hours. He has called on Iraqi police, Iraqi firemen, sanitation workers, to report back to work. There have been meetings with U.S. military here, and the Iraqi civilian infrastructure, again, trying to restore some order. But that order is not here yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter, I take it as we look at this fire that's burning in, at least, part of the Iraqi capital, the result presumably of more looting. Today, having been Friday, in the Muslim world, the holy day, of course, the day of rest. That apparently didn't have much of an impact on the looting that's going on, the chaos developing in Baghdad.
RODGERS: Wolf, the ICRC spokesman, the International Committee of the Red Cross, told me the people of Baghdad now feel that anything that belonged to the government is theirs, and they have a perfect right to loot it. That is what we are seeing. Again, the ICRC said there is alarming chaos in the city, and the Red Cross is calling on the coalition forces to restore order.
Of course, you heard Colonel Hummer say that restoration of order is simply impossible. Remember, these U.S. soldiers and Marines who are here are combat trained. They are not police officers. They came here to fight their way in to topple the regime. It's a little difficult to figure out what to do next.
Again, I saw within the last three hours a man walk right past me brazenly with a hospital operating table on wheels. Just walk right past me, and there was another fellow pushing another piece of hospital equipment. Anything of value they're stealing and trying to sell -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And Walter, they're just simply going into the banks, the federal -- the national banks and stealing the money, the gold, the jewelry, the valuables as well?
RODGERS: And the national museum, Wolf. There are going to be some very fine Iraqi -- that is Babylonian antiques on the markets in Europe in the not too distant future because that's one of the priceless commodities that you get when civil order breaks down. We saw it in Afghanistan. National treasures of Iraq are soon going to be on the antique sales, antique counters in Europe -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter, finally, before I let you go, I'm getting a lot of e-mail from our viewers around the world wondering what it's like, the security for our correspondents, including yourself, on the streets of Baghdad. What's the situation on that front?
RODGERS: There are areas in Baghdad not far from where I'm standing which are free-fire zones. Baghdad remains extraordinarily dangerous once you get outside U.S. Marine or U.S. Army pockets of control. It was so serious, Wolf, that within the last hour and a half, we had to move our camera position off the street at a traffic circle because once the U.S. Marines pulled their tanks out of there to reduce their profile and increase their security position, we could no longer stand on the streets.
So we've literally pulled back to a hotel rooftop because it isn't safe to stand on the streets. We were quite concerned of, perhaps, a suicide bombing or someone riding by and shooting us -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Walter Rodgers, our man on the scene, as usual, reporting live from Baghdad. Walter, be careful over there, tell all of our colleagues to be careful, as well, please.
Meanwhile, Iraqi troops gave up the fight in Mosul today. With that, Saddam Hussein's tribal home, Tikrit, is the last urban area that remains an all-out war zone. CNN's Jane Arraf is in Mosul. She is joining me now live. Jane, what's the latest from there?
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we've actually left Mosul just before sundown, which seemed like a wise thing to do. And as we were leaving, we saw groups of peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, leaving as well.
Now, the Iraqi forces have pulled out. Indeed, so suddenly, it seems that they have left nothing there in their place. In more than seven hours in that city, we didn't see a single U.S. soldier, and we drove around the city looking for them. We saw only a handful of Kurdish soldiers. And everyone we spoke to said, Where are the American soldiers?
Now, we know there were small groups of Special Forces in there along with the peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, but generally they were leaving people alone, they were nowhere to be seen. And there was from early morning an absolute frenzy of looting. Now, we've heard about looting in other cities across Iraq, and there wasn't much difference in this except for the scale.
Now, Mosul is one of the biggest cities in Iraq, and it has a lot of government buildings. Almost every one of those buildings was either set on fire, or still had people streaming into it hour after hour carrying away anything they could find. Food, building materials, parts of the buildings themselves. Even the presidential palace wasn't immune. People broke in and essentially tore down anything they could.
One of the most amazing scenes, the Iraqi Central Bank in the middle of Mosul, where some of the money no longer used was set on fire, while people tried to stream inside the building to carry out armloads of Iraqi dinars. Not worth very much to us, but they said they have nothing. They said the government has left them with nothing. Saddam Hussein had ruined their lives, some of them, and the least they deserved was whatever money they could carry off -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jane Arraf. She is in the northern part of Iraq where the looting continues there as well. We'll continue to check back with you, Jane. Thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 11, 2003 - 12:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As U.S. and coalition forces advance more and more into Iraqi cities, the pressure to bring about law and order increases. And, as we said, in Baghdad what's been described as a sense of lawlessness still clearly hangs over the entire city. U.S. forces are discovering more hidden dangers as well.
CNN's Walter Rodgers begins our coverage from the Iraqi capital this hour -- Walter.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf. A short while ago, the International Committee of the Red Cross issued a statement saying -- quote -- "we are profoundly alarmed at the chaos we are seeing in this city. There has been a total collapse of the hospital structure in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad."
We understand, according to an ICRC spokesman, that only one hospital is up and operating at this time because of looting. That one hospital is only operating because there are coalition tanks, U.S. Army and Marine tanks around the hospital protecting it. Otherwise, every other hospital in the city of Baghdad, according to an ICRC spokesman, refuses to open. Each of the hospitals has been looted. When I asked why, I was told that the looting is the result of the Iraqis figuring that with the government gone, they can take whatever they want from the government now.
What we have been told however, is that most doctors and nurses simply are too terrified to go to work at this point. The Iraqis have already looted their national museum. They have looted the national treasury, the national bank. There have been fires set in those buildings. There have been big black plumes of smoke burning all over town, fires set by the looters.
Earlier in the day, I talked to Colonel Steven Hummer, 7th U.S. Marine regimental unit here doing duty, asked him what the Marines could do about this? What he said was, We cannot shoot the looters, and we don't have enough Marines on the streets to put down the looting as it is. His best hope was meetings he had with Iraqi civic officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. STEVEN HUMMER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We can stop the looting, and that is by our sheer presence. Again, we don't have enough Marines right now to cover every building, every storefront. So we're trying to maintain certain areas. Hospitals, key infrastructure areas, certain government buildings, things like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RODGERS: Colonel Hummer did say that he thought perhaps some order must be restored in the city within the next 24 hours. He has called on Iraqi police, Iraqi firemen, sanitation workers, to report back to work. There have been meetings with U.S. military here, and the Iraqi civilian infrastructure, again, trying to restore some order. But that order is not here yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter, I take it as we look at this fire that's burning in, at least, part of the Iraqi capital, the result presumably of more looting. Today, having been Friday, in the Muslim world, the holy day, of course, the day of rest. That apparently didn't have much of an impact on the looting that's going on, the chaos developing in Baghdad.
RODGERS: Wolf, the ICRC spokesman, the International Committee of the Red Cross, told me the people of Baghdad now feel that anything that belonged to the government is theirs, and they have a perfect right to loot it. That is what we are seeing. Again, the ICRC said there is alarming chaos in the city, and the Red Cross is calling on the coalition forces to restore order.
Of course, you heard Colonel Hummer say that restoration of order is simply impossible. Remember, these U.S. soldiers and Marines who are here are combat trained. They are not police officers. They came here to fight their way in to topple the regime. It's a little difficult to figure out what to do next.
Again, I saw within the last three hours a man walk right past me brazenly with a hospital operating table on wheels. Just walk right past me, and there was another fellow pushing another piece of hospital equipment. Anything of value they're stealing and trying to sell -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And Walter, they're just simply going into the banks, the federal -- the national banks and stealing the money, the gold, the jewelry, the valuables as well?
RODGERS: And the national museum, Wolf. There are going to be some very fine Iraqi -- that is Babylonian antiques on the markets in Europe in the not too distant future because that's one of the priceless commodities that you get when civil order breaks down. We saw it in Afghanistan. National treasures of Iraq are soon going to be on the antique sales, antique counters in Europe -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter, finally, before I let you go, I'm getting a lot of e-mail from our viewers around the world wondering what it's like, the security for our correspondents, including yourself, on the streets of Baghdad. What's the situation on that front?
RODGERS: There are areas in Baghdad not far from where I'm standing which are free-fire zones. Baghdad remains extraordinarily dangerous once you get outside U.S. Marine or U.S. Army pockets of control. It was so serious, Wolf, that within the last hour and a half, we had to move our camera position off the street at a traffic circle because once the U.S. Marines pulled their tanks out of there to reduce their profile and increase their security position, we could no longer stand on the streets.
So we've literally pulled back to a hotel rooftop because it isn't safe to stand on the streets. We were quite concerned of, perhaps, a suicide bombing or someone riding by and shooting us -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Walter Rodgers, our man on the scene, as usual, reporting live from Baghdad. Walter, be careful over there, tell all of our colleagues to be careful, as well, please.
Meanwhile, Iraqi troops gave up the fight in Mosul today. With that, Saddam Hussein's tribal home, Tikrit, is the last urban area that remains an all-out war zone. CNN's Jane Arraf is in Mosul. She is joining me now live. Jane, what's the latest from there?
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we've actually left Mosul just before sundown, which seemed like a wise thing to do. And as we were leaving, we saw groups of peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, leaving as well.
Now, the Iraqi forces have pulled out. Indeed, so suddenly, it seems that they have left nothing there in their place. In more than seven hours in that city, we didn't see a single U.S. soldier, and we drove around the city looking for them. We saw only a handful of Kurdish soldiers. And everyone we spoke to said, Where are the American soldiers?
Now, we know there were small groups of Special Forces in there along with the peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, but generally they were leaving people alone, they were nowhere to be seen. And there was from early morning an absolute frenzy of looting. Now, we've heard about looting in other cities across Iraq, and there wasn't much difference in this except for the scale.
Now, Mosul is one of the biggest cities in Iraq, and it has a lot of government buildings. Almost every one of those buildings was either set on fire, or still had people streaming into it hour after hour carrying away anything they could find. Food, building materials, parts of the buildings themselves. Even the presidential palace wasn't immune. People broke in and essentially tore down anything they could.
One of the most amazing scenes, the Iraqi Central Bank in the middle of Mosul, where some of the money no longer used was set on fire, while people tried to stream inside the building to carry out armloads of Iraqi dinars. Not worth very much to us, but they said they have nothing. They said the government has left them with nothing. Saddam Hussein had ruined their lives, some of them, and the least they deserved was whatever money they could carry off -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jane Arraf. She is in the northern part of Iraq where the looting continues there as well. We'll continue to check back with you, Jane. Thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
