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War in Iraq: Government Building on Fire in Baghdad

Aired April 12, 2003 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's start with Baghdad. It saw its share of looting and shooting today and once again, at least one government building is burning.
CENTCOM, meanwhile, is crossing one name of its 55 most wanted list. Iraq's former top science adviser surrendered today to U.S. forces. And for about that, we turn now to CNN's Rula Amin who is in Baghdad -- Rula, hello.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn. We start with the latest. One Marine was killed today when two gunmen opened fire on a U.S. checkpoint here in Baghdad. The troops returned fire, killed one of the gunman and the other one fled away. Another (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for concern today for the Marines when they found about 100 hangers with 50 vests. They look like a photographer vest meant to be worn under clothes filled with explosives and buttons to detonate the explosives. This has caused alarm among the troops not only found these and this evidence that some people are still trying to inflict damage among the troops using suicide bombings technique, however because they were 100 hangars and only 50 vests there were. So there is concern that the other vests are already with people who want to use them.

At the same time today, Amir Al-Saadi, he is a British educated, well spoken Iraqi official, for the first time since the fall of Baghdad an Iraqi official turned himself in to the Marines today. Amir Al-Saadi was the presidential adviser. He has been coordinating Iraq dealings with the U.N. inspectors. He's been the main spokesman to defend Iraq and to defend that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He said today, as he turned himself in, he went there with a German camera -- a German camera crew and he told them before he turned himself in that he will keep his line, that Iraq does not possess and did not possess weapons of mass destruction.

Still, he is turning himself in. This is significant again, because this is the first time an Iraqi official that we know of have turned himself in since Baghdad has fallen. Saddam Hussein, his sons, all his ministers, have disappeared. We don't know their whereabouts yet -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And Rula, because the lieutenant general is the first on this list of the 25 out of CENTCOM that turned himself in, it'll be interesting to see how he is handled. Do we know what happened to him after he did give up?

AMIN: No, we still don't have any information. It was still interesting the way it happened, the fact that he contacted a German television crew. He did an interview with them, and then he went to the U.S. Marines and turned himself in. Again, it's still significant. Will there be others to follow him? Will he reveal more information about Iraq's weapons programs? Still, we don't know. At the same time, the fact that he says he still maintains his line that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction is interesting -- Daryn.

KAGAN: That it is indeed. Rula Amin in Baghdad, thank you very much. Judy, back to you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as we know and have been reporting, Daryn, looting has been a problem in all of the city's newly under coalition control. In Mosul, citizens are taking matters into their own hands. Forming neighborhood watch groups in an attempt to restore order. CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us now from Erbil. It's a town east of Mosul. Ben, you were in the city earlier today. What is the situation there now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The situation, Judy, is very unstable. I've been covering northern Iraq for quite sometime. We covered the fall of Kirkuk. It was a very festive atmosphere. The situation in Mosul is completely different. The loyalties are still very unclear. Many people still loyal to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. And really, you see vividly in a city like Mosul, how when a regime that's been in power for 35 years, when it collapses, it can be very messy indeed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Child looters make up with their prize, blankets and toilet paper from a Mosul hotel. The plunder had tapered off here. The population wondering, who is in control?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it? What is it? You still don't see anybody protecting the city. You can't see?

WEDEMAN: Residents of this predominantly Sunni Arab city have taken matters into their own hands, standing guard over homes and neighborhoods. A few key squares and intersections are patrolled by Kurdish fighters, and a very modest contingent of American troops. The Kurds, however, are the object of deep mistrust among Mosul's Arabs. Where the Americans see a vital partner in the war against Saddam, the Arabs see an ancient foe suddenly in a position to settle old scores. The few Americans in evident objects of curiosity and resentment. Since the Americans came, all they've done is drive through the street, says this man. They've done nothing to stop the looting. For some American troops, the task at hand appears daunting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Food. We're doing as much as we can as we can get it done. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WEDEMAN: Destroyed in a day of anarchy, however, was much of Mosul's civil structure. The new order to the extent that one even exists yet is hardly celebrated. There's scant evidence of euphoria here. Mosul's self-styled liberators have hardly settled in and they're already being seen as unwanted occupiers. Mosul's Arabs are bitter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very terrible situation here.

WEDEMAN: A few in Mosul still savor the novelty of unbridled anarchic freedom, the thrill of hacking away at yesterday's tyrant, but for others, peering through the heat and smoke of their battered city, Saddam doesn't look so bad. Brutal, though, he was, they say at least he kept the peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: And, Judy, I cannot stress enough how strongly people feel there. Every time we got out of the car we would talk to one person or two. It was all very civil, but within 10 minutes, there was as many as 20 to 30 people there. Many of them very angry. Many of them still obviously loyal to Saddam Hussein. So a very, very volatile situation in Mosul.

WOODRUFF: Ben, a question about -- two -- really, in two parts. One is, what do people think happened to the Iraqi army that was there? I mean, this was supposed to be one of their strongholds. And second of all, do people say anything to you of how they feel about the Iraqi army sort of -- I don't know if letting them down is the right word but they just disappeared without a fight?

WEDEMAN: Well, to answer the second part of that question, there's a lot of anger, a lot of bitterness against the Iraqi army but more than that against Saddam Hussein. Because they'll tell you, Saddam Hussein was talking as if he was going to fight, was talking as if he was going to resist the Americans. And they said all a sudden now, he's disappeared. The army has collapsed.

Now, what was behind the collapse of the army, it's really hard it say. I saw for myself, the ferocity of the American bombing. Not only the front line, but in Mosul. They hit everywhere. When you drive around that city, the areas that targets hit by the Americans were completely pulverized.

So it had just a devastating effect on the morale of the ordinary troops and the officer corps as well. We know a good sector of the officer corps came from Mosul; Mosul is the biggest city in Iraq with an Arab Sunni majority. But really what happened is it appears is that there was a feeling throughout the army of abandonment, of Saddam Hussein and all of his top ministers simply pulled out, disappeared, went underground and left them standing on their own, pulverized by American bombing, and they cracked. They simply gave up. We saw the 5th Army Corps of the Iraqi army offering to surrender and exactly what happened in Mosul -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Which makes one wonder how do the Iraqi people realize that's what happened? That the soldiers lost their morale when they saw their leader was nowhere around. So, all right. Ben Wedeman, thanks -- go ahead, Ben.

WEDEMAN: Well, basically, they felt abandoned. They felt betrayed and I think to broaden this a little bit, this is a feeling that's shared throughout a lot of the Arab world. In the beginning, the opening phases of the war, there was a lot of -- people's morale was boosted, sort of, by what appeared to be an Arab victory. Now, they're completely disappointed and disillusioned by yet another Arab defeat. And I think this will have long-term consequences, not only in the region, but to the United States as well -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And especially since Saddam said -- he has said he would fight to defend his own country, but we shall see. A lot of questions we don't know the answers to. Ben Wedeman reporting from just outside the city of Mosul. Thank you, Ben.

WOODRUFF: All right, we want to get a situation report now from CNN military analyst, retired General Don Shepperd, standing by with our own Miles O'Brien at the CNN Center in Atlanta -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We will go north to south in Iraq with Don Shepperd and begin in Kirkuk. An interesting perhaps very significant find there. And I can't tell you how many times we've been down these roads over these past 24 days and a possibility of chemical weapons find. Tell us what we know as we roll some pictures of this potential find.

GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Basically potential, an informer basically led American forces to rockets on the airfield at Kirkuk. It looks like rockets. It looks like the possibility. They've tested it and zero to six scale, six being the worst, it showed up as a one, which would be possible leakage from a nerve agent.

O'BRIEN: Let's take north Earthview of Kirkuk and specifically that airfield. I don't know if you recall, Don Shepperd, but when we went in on this before, there is a series of bunkers there and I don't know if the computer is going to cooperate. Oh, wait, there it goes. Zoom in on Kirkuk, that airfield is riddled with bunkers. They look like ammunition bunkers down here in the lower part of your screen. We will twist it around, give you a sense of it. But these areas right around on the lower part of your screen there are those bunkers and they could very well be exactly what we're talking about? We don't know that to be a fact, but if you were hiding weapons, you would do it right down in that area there. Let's point out a few of those places. How long does it take to find out, prove positive on these sorts of things?

SHEPPERD: A long time, you have to search all over the ground. And this country is riddled with military airfields with these types of bunkers. It could take a lot of time to find weapons of mass destruction, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's move down and talk a little bit about Tikrit. We've been talking about Tikrit an awful lot. But it bears a lot of discussion right now. Because it remains the last place that is a big question mark.

SHEPPERD: Big question mark, don't know if there a battle or a fading way. But if there is a battle, this is the place. Lots of underground places for loyalists to hide and make a last stand fighting in the tunnels there. It could be a big battle and an underground battle or just a fade away.

O'BRIEN: Meanwhile in Al Kut, down in the south, we've heard from Art Harris today, a surprising reception there. This was thought to be perhaps a little stronghold.

SHEPPERD: Instead of shooting at the Marines, welcomed with flowers. Welcomed by the city elders, if you will, and the clerics to the town and no sign of foreign fighters. A big surprise. Miles.

O'BRIEN: What does that tell you?

SHEPPERD: It tells me that word is spreading throughout southern Iraq, which was kind of reversal of what we thought. We thought easy in southern Iraq and tough in Baghdad. It's been easy in Baghdad and tough in southern Iraq. So this is good news.

O'BRIEN: Once again, perhaps all of us who have been looking closely that the -- discounted the wariness of the Shiite population. Hawking back to 1991 when they were encouraged a revolving the quash by the Saddam Hussein Regime. That clearly a big impact of how this unfolded.

SHEPPERD: We did not back up our words, thinking that Saddam would fall, he didn't, they were crushed and they are very wary of us now. A long time to regain their trust.

O'BRIEN: All right, Major General Don Shepperd, retired, U.S. Air Force. Always a pleasure, thanks very much. And we will send it back to Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Miles, thank you very much. I want to tell you about a disturbing find at an Iraqi air base in Kirkuk now under coalition control. A warhead that U.S. military sources say does show traces of a nerve agent. More definitive tests are being done. Our Thomas Nybo is embedded with the 173rd Airborne in Kirkuk, he joins us now. Tom, what can you tell us?

THOMAS NYBO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am standing, actually standing just 100 yards of what the Army says could be a suspected chemical warhead. Basically it's been very busy in the search for a chemical weapons here. There have been a couple of developments. The first being that earlier today, there were tests done and they showed trace amounts of a nerve agent. Now, a short time ago, they brought in another group of testers and they conducted the same tests with different equipment, the same make and they actually showed no trace of the elements. And I spoke with some of the testers and he said, this really doesn't answer the question. They're waiting for the more sophisticated equipment to come in, with the better-trained experts. They can actually crack open this warhead and they can say with a certain degree of certainty what is actually inside. Earlier, I spoke with Major Rob Gowan, he is traveling with the 173rd and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. ROB GOWAN, 173RD AIRBORNE BRIGADE: Elements of the 173rd Airborne Brigade were clearing the airfield going from building to building, facility to facility and they came across a weapon they checked it appeared as though it had some markings that it indicated it was a --could be a chemical weapon. They came back later and checked it with some technical instruments and it did test positive for nerve agent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NYBO: Now, there was another interesting development in the search for chemical weapons. And it involves a man who the Army says actually was possibly a base commander here at the Kirkuk military airfield, who was imprisoned during the regime of Saddam Hussein. They say with the fall of Kirkuk this man was liberated from prison and showed up at the gate. One of the security gates here at the airfield and said he had some very specific information regarding chemical weapons. And I also spoke with Major Gowan, and he confirms the story of this man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOWAN: An Iraqi gentleman has come forth claiming to have specific knowledge about possible chemical weapons that may be stored here on this air base. It appears as though the air base was evacuated hastily a lot of indicators seem to say that the Iraqi forces that were here left very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NYBO: It was unbelievable when we showed up. The signs were everywhere that these guys did indeed, the Iraqi soldiers moved very quickly. We found uniforms and gas masks, torn off left by the road. Walked through military barracks and found food half-eaten on plate and regarding this Iraqi gentleman that Major Gowan was talking about, this specific information that he was talking about relating to possible chemical weapons, he said he knew of 120 missiles buried in about an 18-mile radius here and he said of those 120 missiles, 24 of them are actually armed with chemical warheads now this is a pretty big claim. The Army is taking a very cautious approach.

As I mentioned, they are waiting for the experts to come in and they've already sent out those search teams, trying to find these sites that this man mentioned exists with the buried chemical munitions but the question is far from answered here at the Kirkuk military airfield.

KAGAN: Yes, and Thomas, as they try to answer your questions, it talks trying to bring in more of the experts to the potential warheads rather than moving the weapons out to have them tested some place else?

NYBO: Yes, this one warhead has not moved all day as far as I know. I have viewed it about 10 hours earlier and I am standing, as I mentioned just a couple hundred yards from it, and we're basically sitting on more ammunition and weaponry than I could have ever imagined. I'm not a military guy, but even some of the soldiers I spoke with were just amazed. There are a number of bunkers, four underground bunkers, about each one about the size of a basketball court. Just packed with all kinds of weapons, a missile, barrels of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --- the writing was in Russian. They're not sure what's inside, but it is going to be a very long and painstaking process to basically answer this question with any certainty about what's really here.

KAGAN: It sounds like it, indeed. I am flashing back to some of our war school training, Thomas, and I am thinking maybe you shouldn't be standing so close, until we actually realized, the experts find out what it is that is on that base. Thomas Nybo reporting to us from Kirkuk. Appreciate that.

Rebuilding Iraq, now that Saddam is out of power, coming up from establishing a new government to controlling chaos, we will talk with an expert on post conflict reconstruction. And the Iraqi ambassador to the U.N. says good-bye to the U.S. details as Mohammed Aldouri returns to his homeland in disarray.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: The coalition has a full plate in Iraq, wiping out Iraqi resistance, establishing law and order, and once that's all done, rebuilding the country and helping the Iraqis create a new government. Well, joining me now to talk about the last part of that is Rick Barton of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He is the senior adviser in the International Security Program there. Mr. Barton, how long before we're going to see a symbolize of law and order restored in Iraq?

RICK BARTON, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I think it would happen fairly soon. I am not sure it will be law and are, but probably get us out of this Mad Max period that we're in right now. Looting can only go so far. The people obviously have a preference for a return to normalcy. And I suspect that even within a few day, certainly no more than a couple of weeks, in most of the country, there will be a desire to get back to school, to see regular police on the streets and to have some sense that the people can get back into their lives.

WOODRUFF: Yesterday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in effect said there is not a humanitarian crisis in Iraq right now. Do you agree with that?

BARTON: I suspect that's mostly true. I think there are still the potential in particular for Arabs to be chased out of Kirkuk and a few other places we have not heard much about. But generally, people are having -- will get their food. I think the water issue will be resolved. So public safety is the humanitarian and day-to-day issue right now.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you, I just saw a quote reading the news wires where someone, one of the troops in Baghdad involved in trying to put things back together, said, that getting this city up and running is like getting Los Angeles up and running. You are talking about five million more residents. What exactly is going to be involved in getting some of these cities moving again? BARTON: Well, we really haven't tested Iraq because 70 percent of the public lives in cities and cities are harder to deal with. So much diversity, there's so much real estate. There's just an awful lot of complications. So it's in a way, much harder to run. On the other hand, if we can really do a good job in five to ten of major cities of country, you will have captured the imagination of most of the people of Iraq.

So the real issues are that you have to get people back into the regular lives and the best way to do that is really to provide salaries. These people have not really been getting paid of living wage. If we can give them a living wage right away, there's a good chance that some of the people who have vacated their jobs, who are concerned about their own safety because even to be a teacher or a doctor in Iraq, you had to be a member of the party. So it's not as if you could chase away the 500 to 800,000 party members and expect to have a functioning country. So get them back into their normal routines, salaries is one way to do it. We generally hate doing that, but that's the best way to create a big of a magnetic effect.

WOODRUFF: But where is the money for those salaries going to come from and where is the money going to come from to rebuild these government ministries, other important buildings, schools and other places that have been torn down and when you hear about the looting, the bombing and the destruction, I mean, one just imagines it will take billions and billions of dollars?

BARTON: Well, it certainly will take billions. The great advantage that we have in Iraq is that, in fact, there is an economy in Iraq. And that there -- you do have the potential through the oil to actually be able to self-finance some. If we think it's going to come from the international community or from the United States, we're probably kidding ourselves.

WOODRUFF: But aren't there limits of how much can come from oil?

BARTON: There are certainly limits to how much can come from oil. But again, if you can provide the public safety, you will start to get increase remittances, you will get the opening of borders and the removing of sanctions will create stimulus's as well. There are areas where good things could happen. We can increase the production of oil. No guarantee because are there some big, big issues and this is a huge country with a lot of challenges. But it's possible if we get started quickly and we don't miss these next few weeks when the public is really looking for something.

WOODRUFF: Rick Barton is with the Center with Strategic and International Studies, giving us a clear-eyed look at just what lies ahead of the people of Iraq. Thank you very much, we appreciate it.

BARTON: My pleasure.

WOODRUFF: Some quick programming notes now be sure to tune into late addition tomorrow. General Tommy Franks of the U.S. Central Command will sit down with our Wolf Blitzer to talk about the war in Iraqi. That's Sunday at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. And catch Iraqi National Congress leader (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on CNN right after that. That is at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

KAGAN: Well, with the wave and an apology for sometimes being tough on reporters, Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations has said goodbye to New York. Mohammed Aldouri represented his country at the U.N. for the past two years, but acknowledging that his government no longer exists, he's headed for Damascus, Syria. Our Richard Roth has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The last time Iraqi's U.N. ambassador addressed the Security Council, the U.S. ambassador walked out in protest.

MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N. (through translator): What happened is that the Iraqi army up until now has not confronted the United States forces.

ROTH: But now, it's the Iraqi ambassador's time to leave, the United States.

ALDOURI: The game is over. I hope that peace will prevail, and that the Iraqi people at the end of the day will have a peaceful life.

ROTH: Mohammed Aldouri spent more years as a university professor than as a diplomat. In New York, he briefed people interested in his country, recently a group of Lehigh University students. But he never got comfortable in the media glare before and especially during the war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you weren't...

ALDOURI: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has happened with you? Please, why did you come here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we thought...

ALDOURI: Tomorrow, I will see you in the U.N.

ROTH: And at the U.N., all ambassadors carry out their instructions whether they agree with them or not.

JUAN GABRIEL VALDES, CHILEAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Well, I think that he had a very, very difficult task. He defended the positions of his country with courage, I would say.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: He's a decent man, and I hope he finds a decent life representing a decent government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aldouri is a dear friend of mine.

ROTH: Aldouri also drew support from opponents of the war a gift of paper cranes. But on the eve of Aldouri's departure, women representing the Daughters of the American Revolution passed by, wanting to let fly with something else. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I had eggs, I would like to throw eggs at him.

ROTH: U.N. diplomats don't toss eggs, just nods. Several months ago, the U.S. ambassador, John Negroponte, and the Iraqi ambassador almost locked eyes. And forget about Kuwait.

MOHAMMED ABULHASAN, KUWAITI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not one word?

ABULHASAN: Not one word, except a normal greeting of, "Hello, how are you?"

ROTH: That was as close as residents of New York's Upper East Side district got to know Aldouri, who kept a low profile, like many in the big city. It's a neighborhood you wouldn't expect the diplomatic post of an enemy government to turn up.

ALDOURI: I am very thankful for the people of New York, for their generosity. This is a very decent people. I was really -- without talking about the problem in Iraq, I was really happy to be here in New York, within the people of New York.

ROTH: Aldouri was worried most about the people of Iraq.

ALDOURI: When I see, what I've seen, what you see, my heart squeezes blood.

ROTH: Aldouri was in better spirits as he departed for the airport with a final message.

ALDOURI: I hope that the United States Army will leave Iraq soon, and we will have free election for a free government for a free future for Iraq and the people for Iraq. This is my message to you, to the people of the United States.

ROTH: The ambassador's prime concern now: his family in Iraq. One day he hopes to teach again back home.

Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Returning from battle, coming up, the latest as Jessica Lynch reporting on other wounded troops return to U.S. soil. We are live at Walter Reid Hospital straight ahead.

(NEWSBREAK)

KAGAN: Welcome back live to Kuwait City. Let's talk more about Private Jessica Lynch. Her family says she is in pain from her extensive injuries. And she will have a long rehabilitation at Walter Reid Medical Center in Washington. Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is there. She is waiting for Private Lynch's arrival. Elizabeth, hello. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Jessica Lynch will be joined by 49 other wounded. Who will be landing at Andrews Air Force Base and expected to be here at Walter Reid Army Medical Center later this evening. Actually her recovery process began while she was still in Germany. And that recovery process is both physical and psychological.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): It's a long list, the list of injuries Jessica Lynch sustained while in captivity in Iraq. She has fractures in her right arm, foot and ankle, and both legs and a fractured disk in her lumbar, or lower spine, according to the military, and she also suffered head lacerations. Lynch had several surgeries in Germany. Doctors put pins and bolts in her broken right arm and in both legs, and they repaired her fractured disc.

COL. DAVID RUBENSTEIN, LANDSTUHL MED. CENTER: Her physicians, her doctors anticipate that Private Lynch will continue to improve with time, although she will require extensive rehabilitative services.

COHEN: And the rehab won't just be physical. Even though she's reportedly in good spirits and is eating and sleeping well, psychologists say there's a mental process all POWs must go through with the help of counselors. It's called decompression in military lingo.

COL. BOB ROLAND, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: Oftentimes, there are jumbled memories, or confusing things going on in their mind. And it's important to have them process that information and reintegrate it in a way that helps them to recover. And I suspect that Jessica is going through that process right now.

COHEN: Part of that process means staying away from the spotlight, at least for a while. Psychologists say POWs need to make a slow transition back to the real world.

LT. COL. ELSPERTH RITCHIE, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT: When they come from that environment and they go to an environment that there are well wishers and stimuli and lights and sounds, that can just implode upon them. And they can actually become disoriented and confused.

COHEN: Where Jessica Lynch is in the decompression process is not known. What is known, however, is that Americans won't get to see much of their hero, as she starts her road to recovery, a road that won't be easy. But Private Lynch has already proven she knows how to do things that aren't easy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Rehabilitation specialists I have been speaking to say her recovery will talk a matter of months not just days or weeks -- Judy.

KAGAN: Actually, it's Daryn, Elizabeth, out here in Kuwait City. A couple of questions for you. Understandable that we won't be seeing Private Lynch for some time while she works on the recovery and also understandable the great celebration that comes with her return but I think that you heard you say there were 49 other members of the military who are on their way home. What about the nature of there -- of their injuries?

COHEN: It's a real span of injuries. Probably similar to the folks who were in the hospital now. Everything from relatively minor injuries to broken bones, to probably some more serious injuries, and they too, as folks who have just come back from a war, and also a process, of psychologists say also for them, make a relatively slow transition back into the real world.

KAGAN: I am sure, they, too, have about 49 families out there very happy to see their return today at Walter Reed Medical Center. Elizabeth, thank you very much. More now on Jessica Lynch, they prayed for her safe return and celebrated when she was rescued. It's unclear when Lynch will make it home to Palestine, West Virginia, but her hometown is getting ready. Joining me now from Mort County, West Virginia is Debbie Hennen; she's helping to raise money for the former POWs. Debbie, thanks for being with us.

DEBBIE HENNEN, LYNCH FUND-RAISER: Thank you.

KAGAN: First, can you tell us your feelings on this day?

HENNEN: Can you hear me?

KAGAN: I can hear you, can you hear me?

HENNEN: Yes.

We're just excited that she's going to be back in the States. It just takes -- excuse me, a real weight off of our shoulders and our hearts knowing she's coming back home.

KAGAN: Absolutely, and as well taken care of. I understand you and some other folks are part of taking care at least on the financial side. What's the nature of that the fund-raising and where's that money suppose to go.

HENNEN: That money is going to the Jessica Lynch Fund for her and her family to use of how they see fit.

KAGAN: And any idea I understand that Jessica had talked in the past of being a schoolteacher and having other dreams. Do you hope she puts it towards her education or are you simply she's a hometown hero and you want to see her do well?

HENNEN: Yes, whatever she wants to do with it. If she wants to use it to pay for her books for school, that's great. I she wants to use it for pizza on Saturday night, that's great too. Whatever she wants.

KAGAN: Whatever she wants, she can have coming her way. Of course the focus today in Washington, D.C. where Jessica and her family making their way for West Virginia. But tell us about the mood in the hometown today.

HENNEN: The mood in the hometown is very uplifted, very happy, very excited. You know, she's halfway home when she's in D.C., so we're just looking forward to the day when she makes it all the way home.

KAGAN: Just real quickly, can you tell us how much you have risen so far?

HENNEN: No.

KAGAN: No?

HENNEN: I'm not really sure what the number is.

KAGAN: No because you -- OK. Very good. Well, we will let you go to continue the celebration on what is a happy and uplifting day for the folks back in West Virginia.

HENNEN: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: Thank you for joining us, appreciate that.

HENNEN: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, coming up something that you won't want to miss tonight on CNN our special on the dramatic rescue of Private Jessica Lynch. That is going to take place at 8:30 Eastern time, and 5:30 Pacific time -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Daryn. You can see just how happy Jessica Lynch's hometown is. A palace fit for a dictator. Coming up, our Nic Robertson gives us a look at Saddam Hussein's main palace and what was not found there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Pictures of the war. Well, the mystery, some would say mystique, surrounding Iraq's many presidential palaces was an early causality of this war, and now most of them lie stripped and exposed. CNN's Nic Robertson is back in Baghdad and walking through rooms and halls that he was never permitted to see before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Walking through Saddam Hussein's largest Baghdad palace complex, it's clear who's in control, the U.S. 3rd Infantry, seemingly unfazed under the unseeing gaze of the palace's former owner.

Inside side this, the vast Republican palace, U.S. soldiers now show off it charms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may or may not have noticed all the floors in here are made of marble. It's extraordinary.

ROBERTSON: And, occasionally, sleeping soldiers catching rest in who knows who's former room.

Mostly, though, the floors here are empty, like the rooms, covered in dust and devoid of any furniture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the whole place is opulent. I'm guessing all of his palaces are just like this. But, as I said, there really wasn't much to find here.

ROBERTSON: Perhaps the only real hint of any recent presidential habitation, the rotting food in the kitchen and the discarded plastic hygiene glove.

(on camera): The clear-out here has been so detailed and so thorough, even down to this -- look -- the hinges with the doors taken away. It really begs the question was Saddam Hussein expecting to come back, ever planning to come back. Did he think he was going to lose? Is he planning to set up home somewhere else?

(voice-over): Whatever Hussein's plan for his palace, it seems the coalition also had theirs. Spared from the attack, it is now an operations base for the infantry.

Nearby, in the sprawling city center palace complex, other regime institutions fared less favorably.

Above the door of the ministerial meeting chambers, an ornate lamp dangles dangerously in the breeze.

Inside, U.S. troops pick their way through the debris.

(on camera): If ever the people of Iraq needed a more poignant symbol that the old leadership is gone, it can be found here in the rubble of these rooms. Pieces of chandelier scattered on the floor. The rooms that once held meetings with President Saddam Hussein, Tariq Aziz, Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan all now gone.

(voice-over): For now, though, it seems the only interest many Iraqis would have in these buildings would be to loot them, and perhaps in that Saddam Hussein knew his people best, clearing his house before they could.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Makes you wonder what former occupants are thinking if they are still around when they see these pictures. Well, how is the war in Iraq changing world opinion? Coming up, reaction to the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime from the Arab world and beyond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOHAMMED KAMEL, CAIRO UNIVERSITY: ... the sudden collapse of the regime has disappointed people, has angered people.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): All that anti-U.S. sentiment could reshape world politics. This weekend, Russian President Putin is hosting German Chancellor Schroeder and French President Chirac at their own summit.

PRES. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): The result of the military action is well known and regrettable.

SCHNEIDER: A little more than 50 years ago, Western Europe joined with the United States to form an anti-Soviet alliance. Could Europe and Russia now be coming together in an anti-American alliance? Many Europeans see the U.S. as a rogue superpower, and themselves as the only check on U.S. arrogance and recklessness. A Europe defined by anti-Americanism would be able to form an instant alliance with the Arab world. The British are alarmed over...

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The concept of a world in which there are rival poles of power. The U.S. and its allies in one corner, France, Germany, Russia and its allies in the other.

SCHNEIDER: Tony Blair is trying to prevent it. He's pressuring President Bush to do the one thing that would undercut the new wave of anti-Americanism: Push vigorously for a new peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. Bush seems to be responding.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America's committed and I am personally committed to implementing our road map toward peace.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): There's also pressure from some quarters for the U.S. to go after other bad guys, like Syria and Iran. Polling shows that Americans are not eager for another war. They are eager for the U.S. to broker a new peace deal. Americans want to see Bush the war president, become Bush the peace president. Wouldn't that confound the world?

Bill Schneider, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And it remains to be seen what is going to come out of this war when it comes to international diplomacy. Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Judy, I will tell you one thing that is already coming out of this war on a very personal note for a lot of people amid the chaos in Baghdad, there are people searching and digging for relatives who disappeared during the regime of Saddam Hussein, victims, they say, of Saddam's secret police placed in underground prisons.

Our Jason Bellini caught up with some of those very desperate people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All afternoon, it went like this -- someone announced heard a voice, a call for help. This one coming from down in the well at what was the Iraqi intelligence headquarters. A mob rushes over to hear it for themselves. So loud, so excited, so unsilenceable the crowd that no one can really tell if there's anyone down there. Someone spots a hole in the ground, and throngs begin digging furiously.

(on camera): You know for sure that there are people down there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, maybe thousands.

BELLINI: That's your son in here, you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BELLINI (voice-over): The consensus of the crowd, a vast subterranean Prison exists here, still holding countless Iraqis abducted over decades by Saddam Hussein's secret police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone talk anything about Saddam Hussein, anything, they get him and his brothers, his sisters, his father, his mother and get it in the jail.

BELLINI: Lieutenant Colonel Sanderson (ph) of the U.S. Army indulges what he suspects is but an urban legend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will make us feel better about it, because we may have people over here also. From the first Gulf War and we just want to make sure we have covered every avenue. We have entered patrols all over this place, looking around, making sure that we can -- just make sure that we have a strong gut check before we leave here that we have not in any way, shape or form overlook anything.

We'll put a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) charge that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to find out if there is another level below building. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BELLINI: The charge reveals only dirt. One man shows photographs he claims he found inside the building before the U.S. Army arrived. He holds up keys, and announces he knows where to find the doors that they unlock. The Army allows a small group of men to form a search party. Wading into a flooded basement, the men look over walls and behind doors, but ultimately find no locks to even try the keys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody says they know where the prison is.

BELLINI: More and more people come forward, trying to convince the U.S. soldiers to continue their search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is your brother?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BELLINI: One man holds up a document he says he discovered here. The arrest record of his brother from 10 years prior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people desperately want to find lost loved ones, I mean, it's a big deal now. I won't say that, but you know, these people are glad to have their freedom back and they are looking for all of those people who lost their freedom.

BELLINI: In their searching, we sense a sad unwillingness to recognize the obvious -- the echoes they hear are really their own voices, and the darkness they peer into a vast existential nothingness.

Jason Bellini, CNN, Baghdad, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan live in Kuwait City. Our coverage continues live from here. Also from Washington, D.C., with Judy Woodruff and Leon Harris in Atlanta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 12, 2003 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's start with Baghdad. It saw its share of looting and shooting today and once again, at least one government building is burning.
CENTCOM, meanwhile, is crossing one name of its 55 most wanted list. Iraq's former top science adviser surrendered today to U.S. forces. And for about that, we turn now to CNN's Rula Amin who is in Baghdad -- Rula, hello.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn. We start with the latest. One Marine was killed today when two gunmen opened fire on a U.S. checkpoint here in Baghdad. The troops returned fire, killed one of the gunman and the other one fled away. Another (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for concern today for the Marines when they found about 100 hangers with 50 vests. They look like a photographer vest meant to be worn under clothes filled with explosives and buttons to detonate the explosives. This has caused alarm among the troops not only found these and this evidence that some people are still trying to inflict damage among the troops using suicide bombings technique, however because they were 100 hangars and only 50 vests there were. So there is concern that the other vests are already with people who want to use them.

At the same time today, Amir Al-Saadi, he is a British educated, well spoken Iraqi official, for the first time since the fall of Baghdad an Iraqi official turned himself in to the Marines today. Amir Al-Saadi was the presidential adviser. He has been coordinating Iraq dealings with the U.N. inspectors. He's been the main spokesman to defend Iraq and to defend that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He said today, as he turned himself in, he went there with a German camera -- a German camera crew and he told them before he turned himself in that he will keep his line, that Iraq does not possess and did not possess weapons of mass destruction.

Still, he is turning himself in. This is significant again, because this is the first time an Iraqi official that we know of have turned himself in since Baghdad has fallen. Saddam Hussein, his sons, all his ministers, have disappeared. We don't know their whereabouts yet -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And Rula, because the lieutenant general is the first on this list of the 25 out of CENTCOM that turned himself in, it'll be interesting to see how he is handled. Do we know what happened to him after he did give up?

AMIN: No, we still don't have any information. It was still interesting the way it happened, the fact that he contacted a German television crew. He did an interview with them, and then he went to the U.S. Marines and turned himself in. Again, it's still significant. Will there be others to follow him? Will he reveal more information about Iraq's weapons programs? Still, we don't know. At the same time, the fact that he says he still maintains his line that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction is interesting -- Daryn.

KAGAN: That it is indeed. Rula Amin in Baghdad, thank you very much. Judy, back to you.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as we know and have been reporting, Daryn, looting has been a problem in all of the city's newly under coalition control. In Mosul, citizens are taking matters into their own hands. Forming neighborhood watch groups in an attempt to restore order. CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us now from Erbil. It's a town east of Mosul. Ben, you were in the city earlier today. What is the situation there now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The situation, Judy, is very unstable. I've been covering northern Iraq for quite sometime. We covered the fall of Kirkuk. It was a very festive atmosphere. The situation in Mosul is completely different. The loyalties are still very unclear. Many people still loyal to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. And really, you see vividly in a city like Mosul, how when a regime that's been in power for 35 years, when it collapses, it can be very messy indeed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Child looters make up with their prize, blankets and toilet paper from a Mosul hotel. The plunder had tapered off here. The population wondering, who is in control?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it? What is it? You still don't see anybody protecting the city. You can't see?

WEDEMAN: Residents of this predominantly Sunni Arab city have taken matters into their own hands, standing guard over homes and neighborhoods. A few key squares and intersections are patrolled by Kurdish fighters, and a very modest contingent of American troops. The Kurds, however, are the object of deep mistrust among Mosul's Arabs. Where the Americans see a vital partner in the war against Saddam, the Arabs see an ancient foe suddenly in a position to settle old scores. The few Americans in evident objects of curiosity and resentment. Since the Americans came, all they've done is drive through the street, says this man. They've done nothing to stop the looting. For some American troops, the task at hand appears daunting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Food. We're doing as much as we can as we can get it done. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WEDEMAN: Destroyed in a day of anarchy, however, was much of Mosul's civil structure. The new order to the extent that one even exists yet is hardly celebrated. There's scant evidence of euphoria here. Mosul's self-styled liberators have hardly settled in and they're already being seen as unwanted occupiers. Mosul's Arabs are bitter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very terrible situation here.

WEDEMAN: A few in Mosul still savor the novelty of unbridled anarchic freedom, the thrill of hacking away at yesterday's tyrant, but for others, peering through the heat and smoke of their battered city, Saddam doesn't look so bad. Brutal, though, he was, they say at least he kept the peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: And, Judy, I cannot stress enough how strongly people feel there. Every time we got out of the car we would talk to one person or two. It was all very civil, but within 10 minutes, there was as many as 20 to 30 people there. Many of them very angry. Many of them still obviously loyal to Saddam Hussein. So a very, very volatile situation in Mosul.

WOODRUFF: Ben, a question about -- two -- really, in two parts. One is, what do people think happened to the Iraqi army that was there? I mean, this was supposed to be one of their strongholds. And second of all, do people say anything to you of how they feel about the Iraqi army sort of -- I don't know if letting them down is the right word but they just disappeared without a fight?

WEDEMAN: Well, to answer the second part of that question, there's a lot of anger, a lot of bitterness against the Iraqi army but more than that against Saddam Hussein. Because they'll tell you, Saddam Hussein was talking as if he was going to fight, was talking as if he was going to resist the Americans. And they said all a sudden now, he's disappeared. The army has collapsed.

Now, what was behind the collapse of the army, it's really hard it say. I saw for myself, the ferocity of the American bombing. Not only the front line, but in Mosul. They hit everywhere. When you drive around that city, the areas that targets hit by the Americans were completely pulverized.

So it had just a devastating effect on the morale of the ordinary troops and the officer corps as well. We know a good sector of the officer corps came from Mosul; Mosul is the biggest city in Iraq with an Arab Sunni majority. But really what happened is it appears is that there was a feeling throughout the army of abandonment, of Saddam Hussein and all of his top ministers simply pulled out, disappeared, went underground and left them standing on their own, pulverized by American bombing, and they cracked. They simply gave up. We saw the 5th Army Corps of the Iraqi army offering to surrender and exactly what happened in Mosul -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Which makes one wonder how do the Iraqi people realize that's what happened? That the soldiers lost their morale when they saw their leader was nowhere around. So, all right. Ben Wedeman, thanks -- go ahead, Ben.

WEDEMAN: Well, basically, they felt abandoned. They felt betrayed and I think to broaden this a little bit, this is a feeling that's shared throughout a lot of the Arab world. In the beginning, the opening phases of the war, there was a lot of -- people's morale was boosted, sort of, by what appeared to be an Arab victory. Now, they're completely disappointed and disillusioned by yet another Arab defeat. And I think this will have long-term consequences, not only in the region, but to the United States as well -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And especially since Saddam said -- he has said he would fight to defend his own country, but we shall see. A lot of questions we don't know the answers to. Ben Wedeman reporting from just outside the city of Mosul. Thank you, Ben.

WOODRUFF: All right, we want to get a situation report now from CNN military analyst, retired General Don Shepperd, standing by with our own Miles O'Brien at the CNN Center in Atlanta -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We will go north to south in Iraq with Don Shepperd and begin in Kirkuk. An interesting perhaps very significant find there. And I can't tell you how many times we've been down these roads over these past 24 days and a possibility of chemical weapons find. Tell us what we know as we roll some pictures of this potential find.

GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Basically potential, an informer basically led American forces to rockets on the airfield at Kirkuk. It looks like rockets. It looks like the possibility. They've tested it and zero to six scale, six being the worst, it showed up as a one, which would be possible leakage from a nerve agent.

O'BRIEN: Let's take north Earthview of Kirkuk and specifically that airfield. I don't know if you recall, Don Shepperd, but when we went in on this before, there is a series of bunkers there and I don't know if the computer is going to cooperate. Oh, wait, there it goes. Zoom in on Kirkuk, that airfield is riddled with bunkers. They look like ammunition bunkers down here in the lower part of your screen. We will twist it around, give you a sense of it. But these areas right around on the lower part of your screen there are those bunkers and they could very well be exactly what we're talking about? We don't know that to be a fact, but if you were hiding weapons, you would do it right down in that area there. Let's point out a few of those places. How long does it take to find out, prove positive on these sorts of things?

SHEPPERD: A long time, you have to search all over the ground. And this country is riddled with military airfields with these types of bunkers. It could take a lot of time to find weapons of mass destruction, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's move down and talk a little bit about Tikrit. We've been talking about Tikrit an awful lot. But it bears a lot of discussion right now. Because it remains the last place that is a big question mark.

SHEPPERD: Big question mark, don't know if there a battle or a fading way. But if there is a battle, this is the place. Lots of underground places for loyalists to hide and make a last stand fighting in the tunnels there. It could be a big battle and an underground battle or just a fade away.

O'BRIEN: Meanwhile in Al Kut, down in the south, we've heard from Art Harris today, a surprising reception there. This was thought to be perhaps a little stronghold.

SHEPPERD: Instead of shooting at the Marines, welcomed with flowers. Welcomed by the city elders, if you will, and the clerics to the town and no sign of foreign fighters. A big surprise. Miles.

O'BRIEN: What does that tell you?

SHEPPERD: It tells me that word is spreading throughout southern Iraq, which was kind of reversal of what we thought. We thought easy in southern Iraq and tough in Baghdad. It's been easy in Baghdad and tough in southern Iraq. So this is good news.

O'BRIEN: Once again, perhaps all of us who have been looking closely that the -- discounted the wariness of the Shiite population. Hawking back to 1991 when they were encouraged a revolving the quash by the Saddam Hussein Regime. That clearly a big impact of how this unfolded.

SHEPPERD: We did not back up our words, thinking that Saddam would fall, he didn't, they were crushed and they are very wary of us now. A long time to regain their trust.

O'BRIEN: All right, Major General Don Shepperd, retired, U.S. Air Force. Always a pleasure, thanks very much. And we will send it back to Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Miles, thank you very much. I want to tell you about a disturbing find at an Iraqi air base in Kirkuk now under coalition control. A warhead that U.S. military sources say does show traces of a nerve agent. More definitive tests are being done. Our Thomas Nybo is embedded with the 173rd Airborne in Kirkuk, he joins us now. Tom, what can you tell us?

THOMAS NYBO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am standing, actually standing just 100 yards of what the Army says could be a suspected chemical warhead. Basically it's been very busy in the search for a chemical weapons here. There have been a couple of developments. The first being that earlier today, there were tests done and they showed trace amounts of a nerve agent. Now, a short time ago, they brought in another group of testers and they conducted the same tests with different equipment, the same make and they actually showed no trace of the elements. And I spoke with some of the testers and he said, this really doesn't answer the question. They're waiting for the more sophisticated equipment to come in, with the better-trained experts. They can actually crack open this warhead and they can say with a certain degree of certainty what is actually inside. Earlier, I spoke with Major Rob Gowan, he is traveling with the 173rd and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. ROB GOWAN, 173RD AIRBORNE BRIGADE: Elements of the 173rd Airborne Brigade were clearing the airfield going from building to building, facility to facility and they came across a weapon they checked it appeared as though it had some markings that it indicated it was a --could be a chemical weapon. They came back later and checked it with some technical instruments and it did test positive for nerve agent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NYBO: Now, there was another interesting development in the search for chemical weapons. And it involves a man who the Army says actually was possibly a base commander here at the Kirkuk military airfield, who was imprisoned during the regime of Saddam Hussein. They say with the fall of Kirkuk this man was liberated from prison and showed up at the gate. One of the security gates here at the airfield and said he had some very specific information regarding chemical weapons. And I also spoke with Major Gowan, and he confirms the story of this man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOWAN: An Iraqi gentleman has come forth claiming to have specific knowledge about possible chemical weapons that may be stored here on this air base. It appears as though the air base was evacuated hastily a lot of indicators seem to say that the Iraqi forces that were here left very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NYBO: It was unbelievable when we showed up. The signs were everywhere that these guys did indeed, the Iraqi soldiers moved very quickly. We found uniforms and gas masks, torn off left by the road. Walked through military barracks and found food half-eaten on plate and regarding this Iraqi gentleman that Major Gowan was talking about, this specific information that he was talking about relating to possible chemical weapons, he said he knew of 120 missiles buried in about an 18-mile radius here and he said of those 120 missiles, 24 of them are actually armed with chemical warheads now this is a pretty big claim. The Army is taking a very cautious approach.

As I mentioned, they are waiting for the experts to come in and they've already sent out those search teams, trying to find these sites that this man mentioned exists with the buried chemical munitions but the question is far from answered here at the Kirkuk military airfield.

KAGAN: Yes, and Thomas, as they try to answer your questions, it talks trying to bring in more of the experts to the potential warheads rather than moving the weapons out to have them tested some place else?

NYBO: Yes, this one warhead has not moved all day as far as I know. I have viewed it about 10 hours earlier and I am standing, as I mentioned just a couple hundred yards from it, and we're basically sitting on more ammunition and weaponry than I could have ever imagined. I'm not a military guy, but even some of the soldiers I spoke with were just amazed. There are a number of bunkers, four underground bunkers, about each one about the size of a basketball court. Just packed with all kinds of weapons, a missile, barrels of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --- the writing was in Russian. They're not sure what's inside, but it is going to be a very long and painstaking process to basically answer this question with any certainty about what's really here.

KAGAN: It sounds like it, indeed. I am flashing back to some of our war school training, Thomas, and I am thinking maybe you shouldn't be standing so close, until we actually realized, the experts find out what it is that is on that base. Thomas Nybo reporting to us from Kirkuk. Appreciate that.

Rebuilding Iraq, now that Saddam is out of power, coming up from establishing a new government to controlling chaos, we will talk with an expert on post conflict reconstruction. And the Iraqi ambassador to the U.N. says good-bye to the U.S. details as Mohammed Aldouri returns to his homeland in disarray.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: The coalition has a full plate in Iraq, wiping out Iraqi resistance, establishing law and order, and once that's all done, rebuilding the country and helping the Iraqis create a new government. Well, joining me now to talk about the last part of that is Rick Barton of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He is the senior adviser in the International Security Program there. Mr. Barton, how long before we're going to see a symbolize of law and order restored in Iraq?

RICK BARTON, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I think it would happen fairly soon. I am not sure it will be law and are, but probably get us out of this Mad Max period that we're in right now. Looting can only go so far. The people obviously have a preference for a return to normalcy. And I suspect that even within a few day, certainly no more than a couple of weeks, in most of the country, there will be a desire to get back to school, to see regular police on the streets and to have some sense that the people can get back into their lives.

WOODRUFF: Yesterday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in effect said there is not a humanitarian crisis in Iraq right now. Do you agree with that?

BARTON: I suspect that's mostly true. I think there are still the potential in particular for Arabs to be chased out of Kirkuk and a few other places we have not heard much about. But generally, people are having -- will get their food. I think the water issue will be resolved. So public safety is the humanitarian and day-to-day issue right now.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you, I just saw a quote reading the news wires where someone, one of the troops in Baghdad involved in trying to put things back together, said, that getting this city up and running is like getting Los Angeles up and running. You are talking about five million more residents. What exactly is going to be involved in getting some of these cities moving again? BARTON: Well, we really haven't tested Iraq because 70 percent of the public lives in cities and cities are harder to deal with. So much diversity, there's so much real estate. There's just an awful lot of complications. So it's in a way, much harder to run. On the other hand, if we can really do a good job in five to ten of major cities of country, you will have captured the imagination of most of the people of Iraq.

So the real issues are that you have to get people back into the regular lives and the best way to do that is really to provide salaries. These people have not really been getting paid of living wage. If we can give them a living wage right away, there's a good chance that some of the people who have vacated their jobs, who are concerned about their own safety because even to be a teacher or a doctor in Iraq, you had to be a member of the party. So it's not as if you could chase away the 500 to 800,000 party members and expect to have a functioning country. So get them back into their normal routines, salaries is one way to do it. We generally hate doing that, but that's the best way to create a big of a magnetic effect.

WOODRUFF: But where is the money for those salaries going to come from and where is the money going to come from to rebuild these government ministries, other important buildings, schools and other places that have been torn down and when you hear about the looting, the bombing and the destruction, I mean, one just imagines it will take billions and billions of dollars?

BARTON: Well, it certainly will take billions. The great advantage that we have in Iraq is that, in fact, there is an economy in Iraq. And that there -- you do have the potential through the oil to actually be able to self-finance some. If we think it's going to come from the international community or from the United States, we're probably kidding ourselves.

WOODRUFF: But aren't there limits of how much can come from oil?

BARTON: There are certainly limits to how much can come from oil. But again, if you can provide the public safety, you will start to get increase remittances, you will get the opening of borders and the removing of sanctions will create stimulus's as well. There are areas where good things could happen. We can increase the production of oil. No guarantee because are there some big, big issues and this is a huge country with a lot of challenges. But it's possible if we get started quickly and we don't miss these next few weeks when the public is really looking for something.

WOODRUFF: Rick Barton is with the Center with Strategic and International Studies, giving us a clear-eyed look at just what lies ahead of the people of Iraq. Thank you very much, we appreciate it.

BARTON: My pleasure.

WOODRUFF: Some quick programming notes now be sure to tune into late addition tomorrow. General Tommy Franks of the U.S. Central Command will sit down with our Wolf Blitzer to talk about the war in Iraqi. That's Sunday at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. And catch Iraqi National Congress leader (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on CNN right after that. That is at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

KAGAN: Well, with the wave and an apology for sometimes being tough on reporters, Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations has said goodbye to New York. Mohammed Aldouri represented his country at the U.N. for the past two years, but acknowledging that his government no longer exists, he's headed for Damascus, Syria. Our Richard Roth has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The last time Iraqi's U.N. ambassador addressed the Security Council, the U.S. ambassador walked out in protest.

MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N. (through translator): What happened is that the Iraqi army up until now has not confronted the United States forces.

ROTH: But now, it's the Iraqi ambassador's time to leave, the United States.

ALDOURI: The game is over. I hope that peace will prevail, and that the Iraqi people at the end of the day will have a peaceful life.

ROTH: Mohammed Aldouri spent more years as a university professor than as a diplomat. In New York, he briefed people interested in his country, recently a group of Lehigh University students. But he never got comfortable in the media glare before and especially during the war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you weren't...

ALDOURI: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has happened with you? Please, why did you come here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we thought...

ALDOURI: Tomorrow, I will see you in the U.N.

ROTH: And at the U.N., all ambassadors carry out their instructions whether they agree with them or not.

JUAN GABRIEL VALDES, CHILEAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Well, I think that he had a very, very difficult task. He defended the positions of his country with courage, I would say.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: He's a decent man, and I hope he finds a decent life representing a decent government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aldouri is a dear friend of mine.

ROTH: Aldouri also drew support from opponents of the war a gift of paper cranes. But on the eve of Aldouri's departure, women representing the Daughters of the American Revolution passed by, wanting to let fly with something else. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I had eggs, I would like to throw eggs at him.

ROTH: U.N. diplomats don't toss eggs, just nods. Several months ago, the U.S. ambassador, John Negroponte, and the Iraqi ambassador almost locked eyes. And forget about Kuwait.

MOHAMMED ABULHASAN, KUWAITI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not one word?

ABULHASAN: Not one word, except a normal greeting of, "Hello, how are you?"

ROTH: That was as close as residents of New York's Upper East Side district got to know Aldouri, who kept a low profile, like many in the big city. It's a neighborhood you wouldn't expect the diplomatic post of an enemy government to turn up.

ALDOURI: I am very thankful for the people of New York, for their generosity. This is a very decent people. I was really -- without talking about the problem in Iraq, I was really happy to be here in New York, within the people of New York.

ROTH: Aldouri was worried most about the people of Iraq.

ALDOURI: When I see, what I've seen, what you see, my heart squeezes blood.

ROTH: Aldouri was in better spirits as he departed for the airport with a final message.

ALDOURI: I hope that the United States Army will leave Iraq soon, and we will have free election for a free government for a free future for Iraq and the people for Iraq. This is my message to you, to the people of the United States.

ROTH: The ambassador's prime concern now: his family in Iraq. One day he hopes to teach again back home.

Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Returning from battle, coming up, the latest as Jessica Lynch reporting on other wounded troops return to U.S. soil. We are live at Walter Reid Hospital straight ahead.

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KAGAN: Welcome back live to Kuwait City. Let's talk more about Private Jessica Lynch. Her family says she is in pain from her extensive injuries. And she will have a long rehabilitation at Walter Reid Medical Center in Washington. Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is there. She is waiting for Private Lynch's arrival. Elizabeth, hello. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Jessica Lynch will be joined by 49 other wounded. Who will be landing at Andrews Air Force Base and expected to be here at Walter Reid Army Medical Center later this evening. Actually her recovery process began while she was still in Germany. And that recovery process is both physical and psychological.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): It's a long list, the list of injuries Jessica Lynch sustained while in captivity in Iraq. She has fractures in her right arm, foot and ankle, and both legs and a fractured disk in her lumbar, or lower spine, according to the military, and she also suffered head lacerations. Lynch had several surgeries in Germany. Doctors put pins and bolts in her broken right arm and in both legs, and they repaired her fractured disc.

COL. DAVID RUBENSTEIN, LANDSTUHL MED. CENTER: Her physicians, her doctors anticipate that Private Lynch will continue to improve with time, although she will require extensive rehabilitative services.

COHEN: And the rehab won't just be physical. Even though she's reportedly in good spirits and is eating and sleeping well, psychologists say there's a mental process all POWs must go through with the help of counselors. It's called decompression in military lingo.

COL. BOB ROLAND, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: Oftentimes, there are jumbled memories, or confusing things going on in their mind. And it's important to have them process that information and reintegrate it in a way that helps them to recover. And I suspect that Jessica is going through that process right now.

COHEN: Part of that process means staying away from the spotlight, at least for a while. Psychologists say POWs need to make a slow transition back to the real world.

LT. COL. ELSPERTH RITCHIE, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT: When they come from that environment and they go to an environment that there are well wishers and stimuli and lights and sounds, that can just implode upon them. And they can actually become disoriented and confused.

COHEN: Where Jessica Lynch is in the decompression process is not known. What is known, however, is that Americans won't get to see much of their hero, as she starts her road to recovery, a road that won't be easy. But Private Lynch has already proven she knows how to do things that aren't easy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Rehabilitation specialists I have been speaking to say her recovery will talk a matter of months not just days or weeks -- Judy.

KAGAN: Actually, it's Daryn, Elizabeth, out here in Kuwait City. A couple of questions for you. Understandable that we won't be seeing Private Lynch for some time while she works on the recovery and also understandable the great celebration that comes with her return but I think that you heard you say there were 49 other members of the military who are on their way home. What about the nature of there -- of their injuries?

COHEN: It's a real span of injuries. Probably similar to the folks who were in the hospital now. Everything from relatively minor injuries to broken bones, to probably some more serious injuries, and they too, as folks who have just come back from a war, and also a process, of psychologists say also for them, make a relatively slow transition back into the real world.

KAGAN: I am sure, they, too, have about 49 families out there very happy to see their return today at Walter Reed Medical Center. Elizabeth, thank you very much. More now on Jessica Lynch, they prayed for her safe return and celebrated when she was rescued. It's unclear when Lynch will make it home to Palestine, West Virginia, but her hometown is getting ready. Joining me now from Mort County, West Virginia is Debbie Hennen; she's helping to raise money for the former POWs. Debbie, thanks for being with us.

DEBBIE HENNEN, LYNCH FUND-RAISER: Thank you.

KAGAN: First, can you tell us your feelings on this day?

HENNEN: Can you hear me?

KAGAN: I can hear you, can you hear me?

HENNEN: Yes.

We're just excited that she's going to be back in the States. It just takes -- excuse me, a real weight off of our shoulders and our hearts knowing she's coming back home.

KAGAN: Absolutely, and as well taken care of. I understand you and some other folks are part of taking care at least on the financial side. What's the nature of that the fund-raising and where's that money suppose to go.

HENNEN: That money is going to the Jessica Lynch Fund for her and her family to use of how they see fit.

KAGAN: And any idea I understand that Jessica had talked in the past of being a schoolteacher and having other dreams. Do you hope she puts it towards her education or are you simply she's a hometown hero and you want to see her do well?

HENNEN: Yes, whatever she wants to do with it. If she wants to use it to pay for her books for school, that's great. I she wants to use it for pizza on Saturday night, that's great too. Whatever she wants.

KAGAN: Whatever she wants, she can have coming her way. Of course the focus today in Washington, D.C. where Jessica and her family making their way for West Virginia. But tell us about the mood in the hometown today.

HENNEN: The mood in the hometown is very uplifted, very happy, very excited. You know, she's halfway home when she's in D.C., so we're just looking forward to the day when she makes it all the way home.

KAGAN: Just real quickly, can you tell us how much you have risen so far?

HENNEN: No.

KAGAN: No?

HENNEN: I'm not really sure what the number is.

KAGAN: No because you -- OK. Very good. Well, we will let you go to continue the celebration on what is a happy and uplifting day for the folks back in West Virginia.

HENNEN: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: Thank you for joining us, appreciate that.

HENNEN: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, coming up something that you won't want to miss tonight on CNN our special on the dramatic rescue of Private Jessica Lynch. That is going to take place at 8:30 Eastern time, and 5:30 Pacific time -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Daryn. You can see just how happy Jessica Lynch's hometown is. A palace fit for a dictator. Coming up, our Nic Robertson gives us a look at Saddam Hussein's main palace and what was not found there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Pictures of the war. Well, the mystery, some would say mystique, surrounding Iraq's many presidential palaces was an early causality of this war, and now most of them lie stripped and exposed. CNN's Nic Robertson is back in Baghdad and walking through rooms and halls that he was never permitted to see before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Walking through Saddam Hussein's largest Baghdad palace complex, it's clear who's in control, the U.S. 3rd Infantry, seemingly unfazed under the unseeing gaze of the palace's former owner.

Inside side this, the vast Republican palace, U.S. soldiers now show off it charms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may or may not have noticed all the floors in here are made of marble. It's extraordinary.

ROBERTSON: And, occasionally, sleeping soldiers catching rest in who knows who's former room.

Mostly, though, the floors here are empty, like the rooms, covered in dust and devoid of any furniture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the whole place is opulent. I'm guessing all of his palaces are just like this. But, as I said, there really wasn't much to find here.

ROBERTSON: Perhaps the only real hint of any recent presidential habitation, the rotting food in the kitchen and the discarded plastic hygiene glove.

(on camera): The clear-out here has been so detailed and so thorough, even down to this -- look -- the hinges with the doors taken away. It really begs the question was Saddam Hussein expecting to come back, ever planning to come back. Did he think he was going to lose? Is he planning to set up home somewhere else?

(voice-over): Whatever Hussein's plan for his palace, it seems the coalition also had theirs. Spared from the attack, it is now an operations base for the infantry.

Nearby, in the sprawling city center palace complex, other regime institutions fared less favorably.

Above the door of the ministerial meeting chambers, an ornate lamp dangles dangerously in the breeze.

Inside, U.S. troops pick their way through the debris.

(on camera): If ever the people of Iraq needed a more poignant symbol that the old leadership is gone, it can be found here in the rubble of these rooms. Pieces of chandelier scattered on the floor. The rooms that once held meetings with President Saddam Hussein, Tariq Aziz, Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan all now gone.

(voice-over): For now, though, it seems the only interest many Iraqis would have in these buildings would be to loot them, and perhaps in that Saddam Hussein knew his people best, clearing his house before they could.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Makes you wonder what former occupants are thinking if they are still around when they see these pictures. Well, how is the war in Iraq changing world opinion? Coming up, reaction to the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime from the Arab world and beyond.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOHAMMED KAMEL, CAIRO UNIVERSITY: ... the sudden collapse of the regime has disappointed people, has angered people.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): All that anti-U.S. sentiment could reshape world politics. This weekend, Russian President Putin is hosting German Chancellor Schroeder and French President Chirac at their own summit.

PRES. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): The result of the military action is well known and regrettable.

SCHNEIDER: A little more than 50 years ago, Western Europe joined with the United States to form an anti-Soviet alliance. Could Europe and Russia now be coming together in an anti-American alliance? Many Europeans see the U.S. as a rogue superpower, and themselves as the only check on U.S. arrogance and recklessness. A Europe defined by anti-Americanism would be able to form an instant alliance with the Arab world. The British are alarmed over...

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The concept of a world in which there are rival poles of power. The U.S. and its allies in one corner, France, Germany, Russia and its allies in the other.

SCHNEIDER: Tony Blair is trying to prevent it. He's pressuring President Bush to do the one thing that would undercut the new wave of anti-Americanism: Push vigorously for a new peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. Bush seems to be responding.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America's committed and I am personally committed to implementing our road map toward peace.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): There's also pressure from some quarters for the U.S. to go after other bad guys, like Syria and Iran. Polling shows that Americans are not eager for another war. They are eager for the U.S. to broker a new peace deal. Americans want to see Bush the war president, become Bush the peace president. Wouldn't that confound the world?

Bill Schneider, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And it remains to be seen what is going to come out of this war when it comes to international diplomacy. Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Judy, I will tell you one thing that is already coming out of this war on a very personal note for a lot of people amid the chaos in Baghdad, there are people searching and digging for relatives who disappeared during the regime of Saddam Hussein, victims, they say, of Saddam's secret police placed in underground prisons.

Our Jason Bellini caught up with some of those very desperate people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All afternoon, it went like this -- someone announced heard a voice, a call for help. This one coming from down in the well at what was the Iraqi intelligence headquarters. A mob rushes over to hear it for themselves. So loud, so excited, so unsilenceable the crowd that no one can really tell if there's anyone down there. Someone spots a hole in the ground, and throngs begin digging furiously.

(on camera): You know for sure that there are people down there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, maybe thousands.

BELLINI: That's your son in here, you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BELLINI (voice-over): The consensus of the crowd, a vast subterranean Prison exists here, still holding countless Iraqis abducted over decades by Saddam Hussein's secret police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone talk anything about Saddam Hussein, anything, they get him and his brothers, his sisters, his father, his mother and get it in the jail.

BELLINI: Lieutenant Colonel Sanderson (ph) of the U.S. Army indulges what he suspects is but an urban legend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will make us feel better about it, because we may have people over here also. From the first Gulf War and we just want to make sure we have covered every avenue. We have entered patrols all over this place, looking around, making sure that we can -- just make sure that we have a strong gut check before we leave here that we have not in any way, shape or form overlook anything.

We'll put a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) charge that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to find out if there is another level below building. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BELLINI: The charge reveals only dirt. One man shows photographs he claims he found inside the building before the U.S. Army arrived. He holds up keys, and announces he knows where to find the doors that they unlock. The Army allows a small group of men to form a search party. Wading into a flooded basement, the men look over walls and behind doors, but ultimately find no locks to even try the keys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody says they know where the prison is.

BELLINI: More and more people come forward, trying to convince the U.S. soldiers to continue their search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is your brother?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BELLINI: One man holds up a document he says he discovered here. The arrest record of his brother from 10 years prior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people desperately want to find lost loved ones, I mean, it's a big deal now. I won't say that, but you know, these people are glad to have their freedom back and they are looking for all of those people who lost their freedom.

BELLINI: In their searching, we sense a sad unwillingness to recognize the obvious -- the echoes they hear are really their own voices, and the darkness they peer into a vast existential nothingness.

Jason Bellini, CNN, Baghdad, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan live in Kuwait City. Our coverage continues live from here. Also from Washington, D.C., with Judy Woodruff and Leon Harris in Atlanta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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