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7 American POWs Freed in Iraq
Aired April 13, 2003 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seven Americans are alive. Seven people who were missing are now alive, and I am so pleased for their families and loved ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: An upbeat President Bush now that seven POWs in Iraq have been freed. The soldiers appear to be in good condition. The president says it won't be long before they're back in the arms of their family.
I'm Candy Crowley in Washington, along with Wolf Blitzer in Doha, Qatar -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Candy. The seven Americans are now apparently on their way to where I am right now here in Doha, Qatar. They went to a hospital in Kuwait City. They were received by medical personnel. Only three of them required any treatment. All of them now out of the hospital, apparently, on their way here to the Central Command, General Tommy Franks' headquarters for this war in the Gulf. Shoshana Johnson -- let's go through the names of all seven -- Shoshana Johnson, Patrick Miller, Joseph Hudson, Edgar Hernandez and James Riley all are from the 507th Maintenance Company that was ambushed near Nasiriyah on March 23. David Williams and Ronald Young are the Apache helicopter pilots. When their chopper went down in Iraq the next day, they were taken POW.
These were the first pictures we saw of the freed prisoners. U.S. Marines found them about 25 miles outside of Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit after, apparently, being tipped off by an Iraqi policeman. After putting the seven on an Army helicopter, the Marines rushed off to join the battle in Tikrit. CNN's Brent Sadler reports seeing empty military bases, destroyed tanks and practically vacant streets. But U.S. forces have engaged in what are being described as sporadic battles with Iraqi fighters.
Canadian reporter, Matthew Fisher, is embedded with the U.S. Marines in the area where the seven POWs were recovered. Here is his description of what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW FISHER, "NATIONAL POST OF CANADA": I was told by one of the Marines that it was a policeman who approached them and said, "If you have come for the prisoners of war" -- he believed they were there for the prisoners of war, that that's the reason that this company, this platoon of late armored reconnaissance vehicles, had come into the town of Samarra. That is not why they were there. It was completely unexpected, but of course, they took immediate advantage of their good fortune. They were given first aid, and primary medical care to the two wounded. But the others were described as skinny. But they had grown beards during their captivity. They were -- when they were released, of course, they were extremely happy. They went to a helicopter station, a temporary one that had been set up a few kilometers -- a few miles south of where they were taken -- or rescued. And then they were flown out on Army Medevac helicopters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Matthew Fisher is with the Canadian newspaper, "The National Post of Canada." The freed soldiers were flown to -- by helicopter to a coalition base not far from Baghdad. CNN's Bob Franken was there when they arrived. He saw what was going on. He's joining us now live -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, what was going on was that -- it can only be described as jubilation. The five who were the most healthy got off their helicopter, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 46, and they literally ran off the helicopter, pumping their fists in the air. They went running over to their vehicle, which was an ambulance. But they were clearly in such good health, that an ambulance wasn't really what they needed.
Meanwhile, the second helicopter brought two of the others who weren't quite as well off. They had received some injuries not really quite clear what those injuries were, but they were limping a little bit. One of them, Shoshana Johnson, had a limp and she clearly had a bandage on her ankle. But nevertheless, they were propelling under their own power. And they too went to their ambulances and then drove down the tarmac from their helicopter landing pad to the C-130 that was awaiting for them. And they drove past the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of Marines, probably a couple hundred, who had come with their Humvees to applaud them as they went by. You can imagine the jubilation at this base. And then, of course, they were flown to Kuwait City. And now, as you mentioned, they're on their way to Qatar.
Now, there is a slightly different version than the one we just heard that has been put out by the Marines -- actually two different versions. One, that there had been a firefight with these Iraqis before the prisoners of war were turned over. That's one version. The other one is that these Iraqis holding the prisoners north of Samarra, they had been moving them around -- that their officers deserted, and these particular lower ranking Iraqis wanted to surrender, and that they encountered on the Highway 1 the Marine armored -- light armored group, and they turned them over. One of the versions is correct, but for the families of the people and the prisoners themselves, the former prisoners of war, it doesn't really matter, because they've achieved their freedom, a freedom that they probably -- in all probability doubted that they might ever have -- Wolf. BLITZER: Bob, before they left that base, you got a pretty good look at them. They seemed to be OK, you pointed out. Did any of them say anything as far as, you know, to any of the other troops who were there?
FRANKEN: No, none whatsoever. I mean the period of time between their departure from the helicopter and going into the ambulances was literally a matter of seconds. One had the impression that they had been told, "Say nothing to anybody until we've had a chance to talk to you." We had, in fact, been instructed that the price that we would have to pay for having access to this event, was that we could not ask them questions, which was not a hard price to pay.
But no, they zipped in. The message was all over their face, though. It was just this huge smile, and the enthusiasm that they barely touched the ground as they ran. They were so happy.
BLITZER: And if our viewers were watching CNN earlier today when Bob was there, they will be able to testify, once again, Bob Franken was at the right place at the right time, did some good reporting in the process. Thanks, Bob, very much. We'll talk to you later.
In the meantime, let's go back to Candy Crowley in Washington -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. The mother of Apache helicopter pilot, Ronald Young, didn't need official word from the Army to know her son was OK. She recognized his smile in the grainy video images she saw. Our Susan Candiotti has been talking with the Young family in Lithia Springs, Georgia -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Candy. And now, of course, the family is absolutely delighted with the news that their son and the others will be flown to the home of Central Command in Doha, Qatar and then barring any unforeseen delays, will be sent on soon after that to Washington, D.C. Here is Ronald Young's mother, Kaye Young, getting that news just a short time ago, within the last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE YOUNG, MOTHER OF RONALD YOUNG JUNIOR: They'll go on to Qatar and then, within a day or two they'll fly to Washington D.C., and that two of us would be able to fly to Walter Reed and be able to see him. I volunteer. I don't think we have to guess who those two are going to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Of course, there are a lot of bundle of nerves -- or laughter then, but a bundle of nerves earlier in the day when the family was still trying to find out exactly what had happened to their son, Apache pilot, Ronald Young, and his fellow pilot, David Williams, and the others, as the news was slowly filtering in. But then, just a couple hours after that, as the news was coming in, they learned that a CNN crew had taken pictures, specifically photographer, Jerry Simonson (ph), of the soldiers as they were being released and rescued. And not long after that, even though the pictures were very, very fuzzy, they were certainly good enough for a mother and father, sisters and brothers to see that as being Ronald Young (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
K. YOUNG: I felt a sense of peace, and I always thought he would be home. I mean I never doubted that. In the back of my mind, I kept saying, you know, I can accept death, you know, we have to accept the Lord's will. But I just -- I always felt like he would be home. And I was hoping I wasn't being naive.
RONALD YOUNG SENIOR, FATHER OF RONALD YOUNG JUNIOR: And I really do love him. But I'd like for him to, you know, think about doing something a little different for a living.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: They are very -- they're being very good-natured about all of this, imagine after having been through what they have been through.
Of course, the Youngs are very grateful to the Marines who rescued them, and they're very anxious to see their son. Again recapping, that could be within the next few days in Washington, D.C. They still haven't had a phone call from them yet, Candy, but they're hoping that will come soon, too -- back to you.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Susan. I imagine a phone call isn't that far away. Thanks.
An emotional roller coaster, that's how the mother of released POW, James Riley, described the family's ordeal. CNN's Whitney Casey is with us now from the family's hometown in Pennsauken, New Jersey.
Whitney, this is a particularly poignant story.
WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very poignant, Candy, and it's hard when you watch them speak. And I just want to tell our viewers this, because this family has really been through so much. Their daughter, Mary, died just three days after their son -- they found out that their son was a POW. So it has been emotional roller coaster to say the least. And to say that they're humble, I think, would be really putting it very lightly.
They've had a very euphoric day. They woke up this morning. They did not know any of the news. They turned on the radio, like they do every morning here and then they heard the news. But they went to church, because they have such a -- somewhat of a skeptical attitude about this, seeing as the atmosphere that they've been in, they said, "We're going to go to church. We're going to pray." Then, they came back, and there was an Army liaison here who told them that yes, indeed, their son was OK. The best news that they have had in a very long time after the death of their daughter, who was very close to both brother and other daughter here. But the family just recently gave a press conference about 20 minutes ago. And the father was asked if there was some concern that he had with the communication and just sort of the knowledge that he got while he was waiting during these three weeks. And let's take a listen to what he had to say about some concerns he had with the Red Cross.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATHOL RILEY, FATHER OF JAMES RILEY: There was no verification that either was still alive, they were being treated properly, where they were nor that they even existed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: Now, their son, James Riley, was 31. He has no kids. And just to give you a little sense of what their family says about their son, they're very dry here, a bit laconic, I will say, but they're really -- they're quite nice for having us all here. But they said -- just recently said, "He's stubborn, he's cheap and he's a workaholic." And they said the worst torture that they could possibly imagine would be this, all of this media coverage. So Candy, they're elated that he's back, and they're also elated that he's not here right now having to deal with all of this media because he would hate that -- Candy.
CROWLEY: I'm not sure if he can get out of it, Whitney, for too long, but certainly for now. Thanks, Whitney Casey.
Families and friends of the other released American POWs also are expressing joy and excitement since getting word of their loved ones' release.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEN KRUEGER, FRIEND OF JOHNSON FAMILY: I've overwhelmed with joy and happiness for the family, for Shoshana, knowing that her and the other POWs are coming home safe and sound.
JOEL HERNANDEZ, BROTHER OF EDGAR HERNANDEZ: Cool! Great! I'm happy. I'm happy. Come home. Come home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: President Bush, of course, was understandably delighted when he got the word that all seven of those POWs were safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: For all of those who have been praying for their safety, that they are safe. We still have missing in action in Iraq. We will continue to look for them. We pray that they, too, will be safe and free one of these days. But it's just a good way to start off the morning, to have been notified that seven of our fellow Americans are going to be home here pretty soon in the arms of their loved ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Five Americans are still listed as missing in action during this war in Iraq. And as these seven American POWs, now former POWs, begin their journey toward recovery, they'll certainly benefit from lessons learned during earlier experiences with American POWs. Let's get a little analysis of what they may be going through right now, what they can anticipate in the days, weeks, months ahead. Joining us now, retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, our CNN military analyst.
I know you've studied this issue at great length, General Shepperd. What can these former POWs now expect?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, Wolf, as we look back in history, unfortunately, the United States has had a lot of experience with POWs. First of all, the one that comes to mind most recently, in 1968, the Pueblo incident, Commander Buicker (ph) and the Pueblo. Eighty-three POWs seized, one of them died in captivity. They were kept for 11 months. They were tortured, things we've come to expect from the North Vietnamese, released. And it was a terrible -- you know, just a terrible experience.
After the Pueblo incident, the next was the Vietnam POWs. In the spring of 1973, 591 were released, but over 2,000 remain missing. Again, horrible stories of intended torture used for propaganda. It was not a great experience.
During the Gulf War, I believe the figures were 22 American POWs, some of them were mistreated, but they were kept for a very short period of time. I believe there are still eight listed as missing in action from the Gulf War, if current statistics are correct.
And then, of course, today, the really good news, seven POWs, all of them returned. On the other hand, we still have five, and I understand -- six -- and I understand it's been changed to five today, listed as missing in action.
So all of these have faced the same thing, terrible uncertainty from a peripheral standpoint, terrible feelings of their family who are watching and waiting. In the cases of some of these wars, terrible torture, incarceration for long periods of time, families not notified. But our recent experience has been very good. We've got them back. They appear healthy and they're OK -- Wolf.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, the whole notion that they were gone for, what, three weeks, a little bit more than three weeks, that three weeks that could turn into a lifetime if the situation is as bad as some former POWs during the first Gulf War suggested the Iraqis were engaged in. But we have -- they seem to be pretty good based on what we're seeing today.
SHEPPERD: Yes, these guys seem to be pretty good. We'll have to wait to here their story. But the stories of most POWs from the early Gulf War were the same. They were treated very badly at the beginning. If they were thought to have information that the Iraqis wanted, they were then tortured, as they got -- and mistreated as they got to Baghdad itself. Again, they were incarcerated for a short period of time not like the Vietnam scenario.
These people will just have to wait to tell. But quite frankly, most of these from the 507th would not be prisoners of high rank that had a lot of information about plans and equipment, that type of thing. The two helicopter pilots, of course, might have had information that the Iraqis were interested in, so we'll have to wait and see. But all of them tell the same story. Their immediate feels are -- are these people that have me going to kill me and also, what about my family? What is my family thinking? That seems to be similar experiences of all POWs in all wars -- Wolf.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, as usual, thanks very much for your expertise.
Let's send it back to Candy in Washington -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. A quick program reminder for our viewers -- CNN will have a special report on the former American prisoners of war tonight. Anderson Cooper will join Wolf for "RESCUE OF THE POWs." That will be at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
When we return, more on the return of the American POWs, and perspective on what they've endured. I'll speak with a former POW from the first Gulf War adjusting to life after the POW experience. And later, more reaction from the POW families here in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just so happy -- I just -- I knew it was going to happen, you know. They were going to find my brother, and all the other prisoners. And last night, man, I just -- I couldn't go to sleep. I got home from -- I was with my friend's, and I was like, man, I just -- I have this feeling, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: A scene of joy this morning at the Georgia home of former POW, Ronald Young Junior. CNN was present when the Army officially informed Young's family that the chief warrant officer had been found inside Iraq.
As we continue to monitor the recovery of those seven American POWs, I'm joined from Spoken, Washington, by Lieutenant Colonel Dale Storr. Store, then an Air Force captain, was held as a POW for 33 days during the first Gulf War after his A-10 warthog was shot down by Iraqi forces. He's now a commercial pilot and a member of the Washington Air National Guard.
Thank you so much for joining us. I wanted to ask you, right off the bat, the one thing we hear over and over again, that these families are told, is don't ask them about their experiences. Somehow that just sort of seems a little weird to me. Is that -- did that help you? Did people ask you, or did they just sort of wait for you to set the pace? LT. COL. DALE STORR, FORMER GULF WAR POW: Well, when I first got back, everybody was a little concerned. I think they kind of touched me, or they kind of treated me with kid gloves there a little bit. But luckily, I had a couple brothers who were also in the military, and they were able to ask me and talk to me about what I experienced and what I had endured. And it was easier for them to talk to me, easier for me to talk to them also. So yes, I think it does help to talk about it a little bit, but you know you have to be real careful about it.
CROWLEY: Lieutenant Colonel Storr, can you hear me?
STORR: I can hear you fine now, but...
CROWLEY: OK.
STORR: Yes, I can hear you fine.
CROWLEY: OK, all right, good. Another thing I wanted to ask was, what in your training -- I mean, you look as though you survived very well. I know it was tough for you. But what in your training prepared you for what you went through, if it did?
STORR: Yes, actually, as a member of the Air Force, we have an excellent survival school here at Fairchild Air Force Base. And it is -- the training I received there was in valuable to me while I was in prison. They prepared me for the -- they train you for escape and evasion, which I didn't get a chance to use. But the resistance training that I received, basically, how to handle interrogations, how to deal with being in prison, that pretty much saved my life while I was over there.
CROWLEY: Now, one of the things that also caught my eye was this talk of survival, escape, resistance and evasion psychologists, who will talk to these POWs. Did you go through that? Was that helpful or are they -- is that sort of debriefing, or is that really to help you reorient yourself?
STORR: It's both. And yes, it was great. We spent a week at Andrews Air Force Base; the Air Force POWs did anyway. And during that week, I would spend two to three hours with a psychologist every day, talking about -- just about everything. And what he did for me was -- it was tremendous. He helped me resolve a lot of issues I had, helped me talk about the things I had gone through and how to deal with them. So, yes, there's some good people out there. And our former POWs that are coming home now, they're going to get some excellent, excellent treatment.
CROWLEY: From your point-of-view, what was the toughest thing in coming home, and getting on with life?
STORR: It wasn't -- there wasn't anything real tough. I'll tell you what, it's a lot easier to adapt to freedom than it is to adapt to prison. But, you know, the media attention is something that takes a little while to get used to. But fortunately, everybody who dealt with me, on the media side was very helpful, very friendly. So, you know, that's probably the most difficult thing. I didn't have a lot of psychological problems, or a lot of lingering physical problems. I did have Giardia (ph) that hung around for a while, but you know nothing really significant.
CROWLEY: You know that's interesting. I know Senator John McCain, who, as you know, was a POW in Vietnam, has told me before that when he walked out of there, he never had a nightmare. He never looked back. He went on. Did you have that same experience, or do you sometimes feel it coming back to you?
STORR: Boy, I tell you -- and I can speak, I think, for all of the POWs that were in the Gulf War, we had the utmost respect for those Vietnam prisoners of war. They were -- they proved very inspirational to all of us while we were over there. In fact, I had read several books before I was captured.
But, no, I still had some nightmares. I did. And they -- when I first got back, I had quite a few of them, almost every night. Then, obviously, over the years, they slowed down. They didn't come back as often. But ever since those guys were captured, a few weeks ago, I've had almost nightly occurrences of nightmares again. The dreams came right back, but hopefully they're gone now.
CROWLEY: Well, certainly we hope so, too. And may I say that you've adapted very well to the media. Thank you so much, Lieutenant Colonel David Storr, we appreciate it.
Wolf, we're going to throw it back to you in Qatar.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Candy.
Up next, a get-well president for Private First-Class Jessica Lynch. We'll tell you what she has to say as well, now that her friends and fellow POWs are free. Stay with us for more reaction and celebration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE RILEY, MOTHER OF SERGEANT JAMES RILEY: But I mean one of our children back. The other one, obviously, she's at peace now. So...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it hard to celebrate after such grief?
A. RILEY: Well, we can celebrate when he gets back here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The war in Iraq, family and colleagues celebrate the freedom of seven U.S. troops from Iraqi captivity. U.S. Marines focus on to Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Nic Robertson reports on Iraqi citizens' growing frustration over the chaos across their country. Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (NEWSBREAK)
CROWLEY: If anyone understands what the freed prisoners of war and their families are going through today it is private Jessica Lynch and her family. Doctors say Lynch remains in satisfactory condition at Walter Reid Army Medical Center here in Washington. In a statement Lynch and her family says their prayers have been answered now that the other prisoners have been found alive, including five that were captured with her.
BLITZER: CNN's Ed Lavandera is watching in Texas, where one of the five POWs lives, Shoshana Johnson, of the 507th Maintenance Company, five of the seven POWs from that 507th Maintenance Company. Ed Lavandera joining us live now from El Paso, where there's a very, very happy Johnson family reaction -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, it was two days ago that the Johnson family attended the memorial service for nine of the members that were killed in the action on the early morning hours of March 23rd ambush that resulted in Shoshana Johnson being taken prisoner of war as well as four other soldiers. So they attended that memorial service on Friday, an extremely sad occasion.
But at the same time, this morning, just the opposite. And, you know, we've talked a lot about the families that described the scene when a military official and the chaplain walked up to their door to deliver the saddest news that perhaps your loved one has been killed in action. But this morning, the military official that came to the door of the Johnson family brought the happiest news of all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good news, Lieutenant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is. Every time someone comes back alive. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Now, as soon as this word has been spreading so quickly among the family and friends of Shoshana Johnson, an old army buddy of Claw Johnson her father, who was a Gulf War Veteran, that gentleman is a truck driver, driving back from New Jersey to El Paso. As he was driving into town this morning, he heard the news and drove right over. I can't imagine just how excited this gentleman was. You can take a listen now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you! My joy is your joy!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: You can see how clearly excited the family and friends of Shoshana Johnson have been here all morning long. Three weeks ago, when we first interviewed the Johnson family here, her sister, Shoshana's sister described Shoshana as a fighter who's always been able to make it through the toughest times. And no doubt, they talked to her this morning, saying that this is a clear example of what she meant when she told me that three weeks ago -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed Lavandera reporting from El Paso. Very happy Johnson family. Understandably so, Shoshana Johnson one of the seven POWs freed.
Just ahead under fire in Tikrit, we'll go to Saddam Hussein's hometown to see what's happening there. Not only some fighting still going on in Tikrit, but a tour by our CNN crew ends with bullets flying. We'll share with you the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: The commander of the coalition task force says the battle for Tikrit is on. Tikrit is Saddam Hussein's hometown and the last major stronghold of Saddam loyalists. Leader John Kelly (ph) says U.S. Marines knocked out five Iraqi tanks and killed at least 15 Iraqis in a firefight in Tikrit. And U.S. Cobra helicopters are attacking Iraqi forces in the city.
CNN's Brent Sadler and his camera crew entered Tikrit this morning, driving through the heart of the city, past abandoned tanks and bombed military posts. Then as the crew was leaving the city it came under fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now this --- there was a gunshot. Back out of town, and getting out of here. We have some gunfire. I don't know if it's warning shots. But stay with us as we move our way following (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- we're getting out of Tikrit here. ---let's just recap as we go through here. That Tikrit, no coalition forces. Tikrit, no fighting, check points. OK, that's gunfire. OK, we've just come under attack, under attack. We're OK. We're OK. Under fire, that confirms our worst fears. If you're with us -- are you with us Anderson? OK, we've just run a checkpoint. We have come under automatic machine gunfire. We blew through the checkpoint, they tried to stop us. And our armed guard pulled his machine gun, his automatic machine gun and opened fire to get us through there. I think that's as far as we're going to push it today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: The rear windows were shot out in the Sadler Crew's Land Cruiser, and one received head wounds from flying glass.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Candy. Ryan Chilcote is reporting from the Southern outskirts of Baghdad. That four American soldiers were wounded in a firefight earlier today. It may have been an ambush in the Capital. In the South though there is still continued looting. Let's go to CNN's Christiane Amanpour. She's standing by in Baghdad with the latest -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it is still unstable. There are still gunmen around. And they are lurking in dark alleys and in the urban canyons here. So on a daily basis we get reports of Marines having to take cover or some in deed being wounded and some in deed being killed on this side of the Tigris River when they get into these ambushes or these drive-by attacks, or sometimes even walk-by attacks.
Today there was all manner of different activity on the street. In one occasion earlier this morning, there was a group of Saddam loyalists who, perhaps feeling quite brazen and quite able to express themselves, came out and started to shout against America, against President Bush, and saying to the U.S. Forces, should get out. They said they are Saddam loyalists. And really a bold stance. It was a small but noisy group. But how they dare come out in a town that is so full of U.S. Forces was quite amazing to those who were watching.
It ended quietly. There was no violence. There has, as I say, been some continued looting. But also now some people trying to take matters into their own hands, and trying to clear up the situation, trying to get the garbage off the streets, trying to put back the electricity, trying to really clean up after all these days of looting. And we're told that there are going to be perhaps tomorrow the first attempt by the Marines to put some 150 or so local police out on to the streets to try to calm some of the disorder that we've seen here over the last several days. Now, on another front, some shops are beginning to open again, particularly, let's say, a bread shop. Bread is really a staple for people here. And things have been quite, quiet closed down, because of the looting and uncertainty. In the last 24 hours or so, small corner stores and as I say long bread lines forming outside those bakeries -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Christiane, in the city of nearly five million people or so, 150 police officers going out on patrol, is that going to make really significant amount of difference? Or is this simply a test, and a lot more police officers will be going back to work in the days that follow?
AMANPOUR: Well, I think that's exactly right. Certainly it's the ratio is not favorable for the police or for law and order. But it's a symbolic test. And also it's the beginning of trying to get something up and running. They've been trying to appeal to the entire sort of civil administrators as much as they can to come back and resume their work. So this is going to be perhaps a first test tomorrow. They tried today, it didn't quite work out. But as I say, they say to us, 150. We'll see what happens, certainly the people of this city are crying out for law and order to be restored.
BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad. Thanks, Christiane, very much. Candy, back to you in Washington.
CROWLEY: Up next, Wolf, the hunt for Saddam Hussein. We will have part of Wolf's interview with U.S. General Tommy Franks in the on going attempt to track down the Iraqi leader.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Commander of Operation Iraqi Freedom says the search for Saddam Hussein and his other top associates will continue irrespective of what happens on the battlefield. I spoke with General Franks earlier today for a special interview that aired here on CNN's LATE EDITION.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: He's either dead or he's running a lot.
BLITZER: What's your hunch right now?
FRANKS: My boss doesn't permit me to have hunches, Wolf. He'll simply be alive until I can confirm he's dead.
BLITZER: Are you looking for his DNA at that crater at the...
FRANKS: The people with the appropriate forensics are doing checks you would find appropriate in each of the places where we think we may have killed regime leadership.
BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein?
FRANKS: Oh, of course, of course.
BLITZER: You do?
FRANKS: Of course.
BLITZER: So you'll be able to confirm a positive confirmation if in fact he was in that building?
FRANKS: Well, unless remains were removed. I mean one wouldn't ever want to say for sure 100 percent, you know, you can do anything. But what you should know is that we have the forensic capability to chase these things down, and we'll chase them down, every one of them, all the way.
BLITZER: On the subject of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, General Franks said it's still early in this process. But he says the search will continue.
FRANKS: I have not found any that I have absolutely satisfied myself are weapons of mass destruction, you know, materials. But you're talking about 2,000, 3,000 perhaps distinct places in this country where we know we're going to go, and investigate each one of them. We may have on a given day somewhere between five or ten or 15 site exploitations ongoing to in a 24-hour period of time. In each one of these cases, we will take products, do testing and so forth, and in some cases that testing will take actually maybe as long as this war has been going on, up to this point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: You can see the full interview, by the way, with General Franks during the 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour, a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. That will air later today, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. When we return, we'll shift the focus to the humanitarian aspects of this war. An official with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees will join us from Amman, Jordan. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
PETER KESSLER, UHCR: ... but in the last few days, we've seen some 30,000 people flee, mainly Kurds living in Baghdad and Nasiriyah. And they're now in camps just along the border with Iran. They say they're hungry, they say they lack food. They say the hospital in Basra; the town where they're located is full of people. We've spoken to some of these Iraqis, and we have a team going in with our partners in the U.N. community tomorrow to check on them to find out what more can be done to help these people. And how they can be helped to get back to their homes. But indeed, the main reason they're fleeing is because of the lawlessness, because of their fears for the insecurity, and, of course, the chaos that has occurred in some cities in Iraq in recent days.
BLITZER: What about in the north? Are people beginning to return to their homes?
KESSLER: Well, there have been signs of returns to Solamina (ph). And also some signs of return to Kirkuk. A lot depends on the insecurity. During the first Gulf War, actually, in 1991, relatively few people fled their homes. Relatively few Iraqis. It wasn't actually until after the Gulf War that the Presidential Guards and the Iraqi army came back with revenge in the south and north, did some 1.8 million people flea. Really, the situation inside Iraq is very uncertain. People watch what's happening with the winds of change. They're very nervous about the armed groups on the ground. They're very nervous about the looters and the fact that the Baath party's cadres may have simply gone underground, and they are nervous about the kind of control these people can exert on the population.
So clearly, we're concerned with the population, and of course, their needs for security. And it's important that the U.S. led forces, the coalition forces provide a policing factor a police element on the ground.
BLITZER: Mr. Kessler, we're concerned as well. Thanks for your expertise. We'll be watching this very important humanitarian side of the story. Peter Kessler, he is a spokesman for the United Nations high commissioner for refugees. Back to Candy in Washington.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. Another reminder for our viewers that at 8:00 p.m. tonight, CNN will have a special, the rescue of the POWs. with Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper. Again, at 8:00 tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: As you know, CNN has some exclusive coverage of those seven American soldiers who have been released now as POWs, saved by Marines. And that exclusive coverage, of course, has come to us courtesy of Bob Franken. And we want to go to Bob now -- Bob.
FRANKEN: Candy, this is the Marine base where the POWs were taken after they had been liberated. This is about 65 miles south of Baghdad. They were taken back north of Samarra, between Samarra and Tikrit. In advancing military unit there are contradictory version of what happened. One of the versions, the unit got into a firefight with Iraqis. And the other one, the Iraqi superior officers had all deserted and they went out to surrender. There's even a third version that they used as an intermediary, a local policeman.
Whatever happened, the seven came back to this Marine Base and helicopters very quickly thereafter. And bounded from their helicopter. Particularly the first five were in very good health. Remarkably good health. Only one had his arm in a sling. They were dressed in a variety of outfits, even one wearing pajamas a prisoner might wear. And in the next helicopter two others, including Shoshana Johnson, both of them somewhat injured, both were walking with a limp.
Specialist Johnson had a bandage on her ankle. The other one had undetermined injuries. But neither of them looked that serious. In fact, they were taken to Kuwait and they were looked at and they were not deemed that serious. And the seven are now very free tonight. It was a really enthusiastic, happy scene here. The evident happiness of the POWs, and happy for really good reasons. But for the very proud Marines who showed up. There were over 100 who came in their Humvees along the tarmac. Between the helicopter pad and the C-130, where they were taken to Kuwait. And as the ex-POWs passed by, they got a round of applause from the Marines who came out to show them. It was a happy day for everyone -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Bob, we want to remind our viewers that the reason this now -- these pictures are now so clear, satellite quality, not that your television has gotten so much better; these are satellite quality pictures that we're getting. Bob, how far in advance did you know this? How far is it from where they were picked up to where you are?
FRANKEN: I'm not quite sure of the distance. I would guess it to be about 50 miles or something like that. And how far in advance did I know? I was told about an hour before they came, that something was up. As a matter of fact, in another matter, dealing with coverage of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --- we had come up here. When I was told about this, I asked the people to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- are they coming here? And they said, no, but you will not be able to talk to them. They made it clear later that they were very, very happy that they had done that for the families to watch on CNN as their loved ones got off the helicopter into the plane.
CROWLEY: OK, Bob we seem to be loosing your audio here. Just a little bit, once again these are exclusive pictures, now satellite quality coming in of the seven former U.S. POWs who have since left that Marine Base where Bob is. And moved on and I believe they are headed for Qatar tonight and at some point because they are solders they will move on to Walter Reid Hospital here in Washington. Bob, I'm wondering, do we still have Bob on the line? Bob is gone, OK. Somebody needs to tell me where we are headed from here. We are now headed I think back down to Atlanta to check the headlines. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 13, 2003 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seven Americans are alive. Seven people who were missing are now alive, and I am so pleased for their families and loved ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: An upbeat President Bush now that seven POWs in Iraq have been freed. The soldiers appear to be in good condition. The president says it won't be long before they're back in the arms of their family.
I'm Candy Crowley in Washington, along with Wolf Blitzer in Doha, Qatar -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Candy. The seven Americans are now apparently on their way to where I am right now here in Doha, Qatar. They went to a hospital in Kuwait City. They were received by medical personnel. Only three of them required any treatment. All of them now out of the hospital, apparently, on their way here to the Central Command, General Tommy Franks' headquarters for this war in the Gulf. Shoshana Johnson -- let's go through the names of all seven -- Shoshana Johnson, Patrick Miller, Joseph Hudson, Edgar Hernandez and James Riley all are from the 507th Maintenance Company that was ambushed near Nasiriyah on March 23. David Williams and Ronald Young are the Apache helicopter pilots. When their chopper went down in Iraq the next day, they were taken POW.
These were the first pictures we saw of the freed prisoners. U.S. Marines found them about 25 miles outside of Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit after, apparently, being tipped off by an Iraqi policeman. After putting the seven on an Army helicopter, the Marines rushed off to join the battle in Tikrit. CNN's Brent Sadler reports seeing empty military bases, destroyed tanks and practically vacant streets. But U.S. forces have engaged in what are being described as sporadic battles with Iraqi fighters.
Canadian reporter, Matthew Fisher, is embedded with the U.S. Marines in the area where the seven POWs were recovered. Here is his description of what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW FISHER, "NATIONAL POST OF CANADA": I was told by one of the Marines that it was a policeman who approached them and said, "If you have come for the prisoners of war" -- he believed they were there for the prisoners of war, that that's the reason that this company, this platoon of late armored reconnaissance vehicles, had come into the town of Samarra. That is not why they were there. It was completely unexpected, but of course, they took immediate advantage of their good fortune. They were given first aid, and primary medical care to the two wounded. But the others were described as skinny. But they had grown beards during their captivity. They were -- when they were released, of course, they were extremely happy. They went to a helicopter station, a temporary one that had been set up a few kilometers -- a few miles south of where they were taken -- or rescued. And then they were flown out on Army Medevac helicopters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Matthew Fisher is with the Canadian newspaper, "The National Post of Canada." The freed soldiers were flown to -- by helicopter to a coalition base not far from Baghdad. CNN's Bob Franken was there when they arrived. He saw what was going on. He's joining us now live -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, what was going on was that -- it can only be described as jubilation. The five who were the most healthy got off their helicopter, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 46, and they literally ran off the helicopter, pumping their fists in the air. They went running over to their vehicle, which was an ambulance. But they were clearly in such good health, that an ambulance wasn't really what they needed.
Meanwhile, the second helicopter brought two of the others who weren't quite as well off. They had received some injuries not really quite clear what those injuries were, but they were limping a little bit. One of them, Shoshana Johnson, had a limp and she clearly had a bandage on her ankle. But nevertheless, they were propelling under their own power. And they too went to their ambulances and then drove down the tarmac from their helicopter landing pad to the C-130 that was awaiting for them. And they drove past the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of Marines, probably a couple hundred, who had come with their Humvees to applaud them as they went by. You can imagine the jubilation at this base. And then, of course, they were flown to Kuwait City. And now, as you mentioned, they're on their way to Qatar.
Now, there is a slightly different version than the one we just heard that has been put out by the Marines -- actually two different versions. One, that there had been a firefight with these Iraqis before the prisoners of war were turned over. That's one version. The other one is that these Iraqis holding the prisoners north of Samarra, they had been moving them around -- that their officers deserted, and these particular lower ranking Iraqis wanted to surrender, and that they encountered on the Highway 1 the Marine armored -- light armored group, and they turned them over. One of the versions is correct, but for the families of the people and the prisoners themselves, the former prisoners of war, it doesn't really matter, because they've achieved their freedom, a freedom that they probably -- in all probability doubted that they might ever have -- Wolf. BLITZER: Bob, before they left that base, you got a pretty good look at them. They seemed to be OK, you pointed out. Did any of them say anything as far as, you know, to any of the other troops who were there?
FRANKEN: No, none whatsoever. I mean the period of time between their departure from the helicopter and going into the ambulances was literally a matter of seconds. One had the impression that they had been told, "Say nothing to anybody until we've had a chance to talk to you." We had, in fact, been instructed that the price that we would have to pay for having access to this event, was that we could not ask them questions, which was not a hard price to pay.
But no, they zipped in. The message was all over their face, though. It was just this huge smile, and the enthusiasm that they barely touched the ground as they ran. They were so happy.
BLITZER: And if our viewers were watching CNN earlier today when Bob was there, they will be able to testify, once again, Bob Franken was at the right place at the right time, did some good reporting in the process. Thanks, Bob, very much. We'll talk to you later.
In the meantime, let's go back to Candy Crowley in Washington -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. The mother of Apache helicopter pilot, Ronald Young, didn't need official word from the Army to know her son was OK. She recognized his smile in the grainy video images she saw. Our Susan Candiotti has been talking with the Young family in Lithia Springs, Georgia -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Candy. And now, of course, the family is absolutely delighted with the news that their son and the others will be flown to the home of Central Command in Doha, Qatar and then barring any unforeseen delays, will be sent on soon after that to Washington, D.C. Here is Ronald Young's mother, Kaye Young, getting that news just a short time ago, within the last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE YOUNG, MOTHER OF RONALD YOUNG JUNIOR: They'll go on to Qatar and then, within a day or two they'll fly to Washington D.C., and that two of us would be able to fly to Walter Reed and be able to see him. I volunteer. I don't think we have to guess who those two are going to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Of course, there are a lot of bundle of nerves -- or laughter then, but a bundle of nerves earlier in the day when the family was still trying to find out exactly what had happened to their son, Apache pilot, Ronald Young, and his fellow pilot, David Williams, and the others, as the news was slowly filtering in. But then, just a couple hours after that, as the news was coming in, they learned that a CNN crew had taken pictures, specifically photographer, Jerry Simonson (ph), of the soldiers as they were being released and rescued. And not long after that, even though the pictures were very, very fuzzy, they were certainly good enough for a mother and father, sisters and brothers to see that as being Ronald Young (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
K. YOUNG: I felt a sense of peace, and I always thought he would be home. I mean I never doubted that. In the back of my mind, I kept saying, you know, I can accept death, you know, we have to accept the Lord's will. But I just -- I always felt like he would be home. And I was hoping I wasn't being naive.
RONALD YOUNG SENIOR, FATHER OF RONALD YOUNG JUNIOR: And I really do love him. But I'd like for him to, you know, think about doing something a little different for a living.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: They are very -- they're being very good-natured about all of this, imagine after having been through what they have been through.
Of course, the Youngs are very grateful to the Marines who rescued them, and they're very anxious to see their son. Again recapping, that could be within the next few days in Washington, D.C. They still haven't had a phone call from them yet, Candy, but they're hoping that will come soon, too -- back to you.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Susan. I imagine a phone call isn't that far away. Thanks.
An emotional roller coaster, that's how the mother of released POW, James Riley, described the family's ordeal. CNN's Whitney Casey is with us now from the family's hometown in Pennsauken, New Jersey.
Whitney, this is a particularly poignant story.
WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very poignant, Candy, and it's hard when you watch them speak. And I just want to tell our viewers this, because this family has really been through so much. Their daughter, Mary, died just three days after their son -- they found out that their son was a POW. So it has been emotional roller coaster to say the least. And to say that they're humble, I think, would be really putting it very lightly.
They've had a very euphoric day. They woke up this morning. They did not know any of the news. They turned on the radio, like they do every morning here and then they heard the news. But they went to church, because they have such a -- somewhat of a skeptical attitude about this, seeing as the atmosphere that they've been in, they said, "We're going to go to church. We're going to pray." Then, they came back, and there was an Army liaison here who told them that yes, indeed, their son was OK. The best news that they have had in a very long time after the death of their daughter, who was very close to both brother and other daughter here. But the family just recently gave a press conference about 20 minutes ago. And the father was asked if there was some concern that he had with the communication and just sort of the knowledge that he got while he was waiting during these three weeks. And let's take a listen to what he had to say about some concerns he had with the Red Cross.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATHOL RILEY, FATHER OF JAMES RILEY: There was no verification that either was still alive, they were being treated properly, where they were nor that they even existed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: Now, their son, James Riley, was 31. He has no kids. And just to give you a little sense of what their family says about their son, they're very dry here, a bit laconic, I will say, but they're really -- they're quite nice for having us all here. But they said -- just recently said, "He's stubborn, he's cheap and he's a workaholic." And they said the worst torture that they could possibly imagine would be this, all of this media coverage. So Candy, they're elated that he's back, and they're also elated that he's not here right now having to deal with all of this media because he would hate that -- Candy.
CROWLEY: I'm not sure if he can get out of it, Whitney, for too long, but certainly for now. Thanks, Whitney Casey.
Families and friends of the other released American POWs also are expressing joy and excitement since getting word of their loved ones' release.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEN KRUEGER, FRIEND OF JOHNSON FAMILY: I've overwhelmed with joy and happiness for the family, for Shoshana, knowing that her and the other POWs are coming home safe and sound.
JOEL HERNANDEZ, BROTHER OF EDGAR HERNANDEZ: Cool! Great! I'm happy. I'm happy. Come home. Come home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: President Bush, of course, was understandably delighted when he got the word that all seven of those POWs were safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: For all of those who have been praying for their safety, that they are safe. We still have missing in action in Iraq. We will continue to look for them. We pray that they, too, will be safe and free one of these days. But it's just a good way to start off the morning, to have been notified that seven of our fellow Americans are going to be home here pretty soon in the arms of their loved ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Five Americans are still listed as missing in action during this war in Iraq. And as these seven American POWs, now former POWs, begin their journey toward recovery, they'll certainly benefit from lessons learned during earlier experiences with American POWs. Let's get a little analysis of what they may be going through right now, what they can anticipate in the days, weeks, months ahead. Joining us now, retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, our CNN military analyst.
I know you've studied this issue at great length, General Shepperd. What can these former POWs now expect?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, Wolf, as we look back in history, unfortunately, the United States has had a lot of experience with POWs. First of all, the one that comes to mind most recently, in 1968, the Pueblo incident, Commander Buicker (ph) and the Pueblo. Eighty-three POWs seized, one of them died in captivity. They were kept for 11 months. They were tortured, things we've come to expect from the North Vietnamese, released. And it was a terrible -- you know, just a terrible experience.
After the Pueblo incident, the next was the Vietnam POWs. In the spring of 1973, 591 were released, but over 2,000 remain missing. Again, horrible stories of intended torture used for propaganda. It was not a great experience.
During the Gulf War, I believe the figures were 22 American POWs, some of them were mistreated, but they were kept for a very short period of time. I believe there are still eight listed as missing in action from the Gulf War, if current statistics are correct.
And then, of course, today, the really good news, seven POWs, all of them returned. On the other hand, we still have five, and I understand -- six -- and I understand it's been changed to five today, listed as missing in action.
So all of these have faced the same thing, terrible uncertainty from a peripheral standpoint, terrible feelings of their family who are watching and waiting. In the cases of some of these wars, terrible torture, incarceration for long periods of time, families not notified. But our recent experience has been very good. We've got them back. They appear healthy and they're OK -- Wolf.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, the whole notion that they were gone for, what, three weeks, a little bit more than three weeks, that three weeks that could turn into a lifetime if the situation is as bad as some former POWs during the first Gulf War suggested the Iraqis were engaged in. But we have -- they seem to be pretty good based on what we're seeing today.
SHEPPERD: Yes, these guys seem to be pretty good. We'll have to wait to here their story. But the stories of most POWs from the early Gulf War were the same. They were treated very badly at the beginning. If they were thought to have information that the Iraqis wanted, they were then tortured, as they got -- and mistreated as they got to Baghdad itself. Again, they were incarcerated for a short period of time not like the Vietnam scenario.
These people will just have to wait to tell. But quite frankly, most of these from the 507th would not be prisoners of high rank that had a lot of information about plans and equipment, that type of thing. The two helicopter pilots, of course, might have had information that the Iraqis were interested in, so we'll have to wait and see. But all of them tell the same story. Their immediate feels are -- are these people that have me going to kill me and also, what about my family? What is my family thinking? That seems to be similar experiences of all POWs in all wars -- Wolf.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, as usual, thanks very much for your expertise.
Let's send it back to Candy in Washington -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. A quick program reminder for our viewers -- CNN will have a special report on the former American prisoners of war tonight. Anderson Cooper will join Wolf for "RESCUE OF THE POWs." That will be at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
When we return, more on the return of the American POWs, and perspective on what they've endured. I'll speak with a former POW from the first Gulf War adjusting to life after the POW experience. And later, more reaction from the POW families here in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just so happy -- I just -- I knew it was going to happen, you know. They were going to find my brother, and all the other prisoners. And last night, man, I just -- I couldn't go to sleep. I got home from -- I was with my friend's, and I was like, man, I just -- I have this feeling, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: A scene of joy this morning at the Georgia home of former POW, Ronald Young Junior. CNN was present when the Army officially informed Young's family that the chief warrant officer had been found inside Iraq.
As we continue to monitor the recovery of those seven American POWs, I'm joined from Spoken, Washington, by Lieutenant Colonel Dale Storr. Store, then an Air Force captain, was held as a POW for 33 days during the first Gulf War after his A-10 warthog was shot down by Iraqi forces. He's now a commercial pilot and a member of the Washington Air National Guard.
Thank you so much for joining us. I wanted to ask you, right off the bat, the one thing we hear over and over again, that these families are told, is don't ask them about their experiences. Somehow that just sort of seems a little weird to me. Is that -- did that help you? Did people ask you, or did they just sort of wait for you to set the pace? LT. COL. DALE STORR, FORMER GULF WAR POW: Well, when I first got back, everybody was a little concerned. I think they kind of touched me, or they kind of treated me with kid gloves there a little bit. But luckily, I had a couple brothers who were also in the military, and they were able to ask me and talk to me about what I experienced and what I had endured. And it was easier for them to talk to me, easier for me to talk to them also. So yes, I think it does help to talk about it a little bit, but you know you have to be real careful about it.
CROWLEY: Lieutenant Colonel Storr, can you hear me?
STORR: I can hear you fine now, but...
CROWLEY: OK.
STORR: Yes, I can hear you fine.
CROWLEY: OK, all right, good. Another thing I wanted to ask was, what in your training -- I mean, you look as though you survived very well. I know it was tough for you. But what in your training prepared you for what you went through, if it did?
STORR: Yes, actually, as a member of the Air Force, we have an excellent survival school here at Fairchild Air Force Base. And it is -- the training I received there was in valuable to me while I was in prison. They prepared me for the -- they train you for escape and evasion, which I didn't get a chance to use. But the resistance training that I received, basically, how to handle interrogations, how to deal with being in prison, that pretty much saved my life while I was over there.
CROWLEY: Now, one of the things that also caught my eye was this talk of survival, escape, resistance and evasion psychologists, who will talk to these POWs. Did you go through that? Was that helpful or are they -- is that sort of debriefing, or is that really to help you reorient yourself?
STORR: It's both. And yes, it was great. We spent a week at Andrews Air Force Base; the Air Force POWs did anyway. And during that week, I would spend two to three hours with a psychologist every day, talking about -- just about everything. And what he did for me was -- it was tremendous. He helped me resolve a lot of issues I had, helped me talk about the things I had gone through and how to deal with them. So, yes, there's some good people out there. And our former POWs that are coming home now, they're going to get some excellent, excellent treatment.
CROWLEY: From your point-of-view, what was the toughest thing in coming home, and getting on with life?
STORR: It wasn't -- there wasn't anything real tough. I'll tell you what, it's a lot easier to adapt to freedom than it is to adapt to prison. But, you know, the media attention is something that takes a little while to get used to. But fortunately, everybody who dealt with me, on the media side was very helpful, very friendly. So, you know, that's probably the most difficult thing. I didn't have a lot of psychological problems, or a lot of lingering physical problems. I did have Giardia (ph) that hung around for a while, but you know nothing really significant.
CROWLEY: You know that's interesting. I know Senator John McCain, who, as you know, was a POW in Vietnam, has told me before that when he walked out of there, he never had a nightmare. He never looked back. He went on. Did you have that same experience, or do you sometimes feel it coming back to you?
STORR: Boy, I tell you -- and I can speak, I think, for all of the POWs that were in the Gulf War, we had the utmost respect for those Vietnam prisoners of war. They were -- they proved very inspirational to all of us while we were over there. In fact, I had read several books before I was captured.
But, no, I still had some nightmares. I did. And they -- when I first got back, I had quite a few of them, almost every night. Then, obviously, over the years, they slowed down. They didn't come back as often. But ever since those guys were captured, a few weeks ago, I've had almost nightly occurrences of nightmares again. The dreams came right back, but hopefully they're gone now.
CROWLEY: Well, certainly we hope so, too. And may I say that you've adapted very well to the media. Thank you so much, Lieutenant Colonel David Storr, we appreciate it.
Wolf, we're going to throw it back to you in Qatar.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Candy.
Up next, a get-well president for Private First-Class Jessica Lynch. We'll tell you what she has to say as well, now that her friends and fellow POWs are free. Stay with us for more reaction and celebration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE RILEY, MOTHER OF SERGEANT JAMES RILEY: But I mean one of our children back. The other one, obviously, she's at peace now. So...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it hard to celebrate after such grief?
A. RILEY: Well, we can celebrate when he gets back here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The war in Iraq, family and colleagues celebrate the freedom of seven U.S. troops from Iraqi captivity. U.S. Marines focus on to Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Nic Robertson reports on Iraqi citizens' growing frustration over the chaos across their country. Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (NEWSBREAK)
CROWLEY: If anyone understands what the freed prisoners of war and their families are going through today it is private Jessica Lynch and her family. Doctors say Lynch remains in satisfactory condition at Walter Reid Army Medical Center here in Washington. In a statement Lynch and her family says their prayers have been answered now that the other prisoners have been found alive, including five that were captured with her.
BLITZER: CNN's Ed Lavandera is watching in Texas, where one of the five POWs lives, Shoshana Johnson, of the 507th Maintenance Company, five of the seven POWs from that 507th Maintenance Company. Ed Lavandera joining us live now from El Paso, where there's a very, very happy Johnson family reaction -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, it was two days ago that the Johnson family attended the memorial service for nine of the members that were killed in the action on the early morning hours of March 23rd ambush that resulted in Shoshana Johnson being taken prisoner of war as well as four other soldiers. So they attended that memorial service on Friday, an extremely sad occasion.
But at the same time, this morning, just the opposite. And, you know, we've talked a lot about the families that described the scene when a military official and the chaplain walked up to their door to deliver the saddest news that perhaps your loved one has been killed in action. But this morning, the military official that came to the door of the Johnson family brought the happiest news of all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good news, Lieutenant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is. Every time someone comes back alive. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Now, as soon as this word has been spreading so quickly among the family and friends of Shoshana Johnson, an old army buddy of Claw Johnson her father, who was a Gulf War Veteran, that gentleman is a truck driver, driving back from New Jersey to El Paso. As he was driving into town this morning, he heard the news and drove right over. I can't imagine just how excited this gentleman was. You can take a listen now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you! My joy is your joy!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: You can see how clearly excited the family and friends of Shoshana Johnson have been here all morning long. Three weeks ago, when we first interviewed the Johnson family here, her sister, Shoshana's sister described Shoshana as a fighter who's always been able to make it through the toughest times. And no doubt, they talked to her this morning, saying that this is a clear example of what she meant when she told me that three weeks ago -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed Lavandera reporting from El Paso. Very happy Johnson family. Understandably so, Shoshana Johnson one of the seven POWs freed.
Just ahead under fire in Tikrit, we'll go to Saddam Hussein's hometown to see what's happening there. Not only some fighting still going on in Tikrit, but a tour by our CNN crew ends with bullets flying. We'll share with you the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: The commander of the coalition task force says the battle for Tikrit is on. Tikrit is Saddam Hussein's hometown and the last major stronghold of Saddam loyalists. Leader John Kelly (ph) says U.S. Marines knocked out five Iraqi tanks and killed at least 15 Iraqis in a firefight in Tikrit. And U.S. Cobra helicopters are attacking Iraqi forces in the city.
CNN's Brent Sadler and his camera crew entered Tikrit this morning, driving through the heart of the city, past abandoned tanks and bombed military posts. Then as the crew was leaving the city it came under fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now this --- there was a gunshot. Back out of town, and getting out of here. We have some gunfire. I don't know if it's warning shots. But stay with us as we move our way following (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- we're getting out of Tikrit here. ---let's just recap as we go through here. That Tikrit, no coalition forces. Tikrit, no fighting, check points. OK, that's gunfire. OK, we've just come under attack, under attack. We're OK. We're OK. Under fire, that confirms our worst fears. If you're with us -- are you with us Anderson? OK, we've just run a checkpoint. We have come under automatic machine gunfire. We blew through the checkpoint, they tried to stop us. And our armed guard pulled his machine gun, his automatic machine gun and opened fire to get us through there. I think that's as far as we're going to push it today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: The rear windows were shot out in the Sadler Crew's Land Cruiser, and one received head wounds from flying glass.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Candy. Ryan Chilcote is reporting from the Southern outskirts of Baghdad. That four American soldiers were wounded in a firefight earlier today. It may have been an ambush in the Capital. In the South though there is still continued looting. Let's go to CNN's Christiane Amanpour. She's standing by in Baghdad with the latest -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it is still unstable. There are still gunmen around. And they are lurking in dark alleys and in the urban canyons here. So on a daily basis we get reports of Marines having to take cover or some in deed being wounded and some in deed being killed on this side of the Tigris River when they get into these ambushes or these drive-by attacks, or sometimes even walk-by attacks.
Today there was all manner of different activity on the street. In one occasion earlier this morning, there was a group of Saddam loyalists who, perhaps feeling quite brazen and quite able to express themselves, came out and started to shout against America, against President Bush, and saying to the U.S. Forces, should get out. They said they are Saddam loyalists. And really a bold stance. It was a small but noisy group. But how they dare come out in a town that is so full of U.S. Forces was quite amazing to those who were watching.
It ended quietly. There was no violence. There has, as I say, been some continued looting. But also now some people trying to take matters into their own hands, and trying to clear up the situation, trying to get the garbage off the streets, trying to put back the electricity, trying to really clean up after all these days of looting. And we're told that there are going to be perhaps tomorrow the first attempt by the Marines to put some 150 or so local police out on to the streets to try to calm some of the disorder that we've seen here over the last several days. Now, on another front, some shops are beginning to open again, particularly, let's say, a bread shop. Bread is really a staple for people here. And things have been quite, quiet closed down, because of the looting and uncertainty. In the last 24 hours or so, small corner stores and as I say long bread lines forming outside those bakeries -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Christiane, in the city of nearly five million people or so, 150 police officers going out on patrol, is that going to make really significant amount of difference? Or is this simply a test, and a lot more police officers will be going back to work in the days that follow?
AMANPOUR: Well, I think that's exactly right. Certainly it's the ratio is not favorable for the police or for law and order. But it's a symbolic test. And also it's the beginning of trying to get something up and running. They've been trying to appeal to the entire sort of civil administrators as much as they can to come back and resume their work. So this is going to be perhaps a first test tomorrow. They tried today, it didn't quite work out. But as I say, they say to us, 150. We'll see what happens, certainly the people of this city are crying out for law and order to be restored.
BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad. Thanks, Christiane, very much. Candy, back to you in Washington.
CROWLEY: Up next, Wolf, the hunt for Saddam Hussein. We will have part of Wolf's interview with U.S. General Tommy Franks in the on going attempt to track down the Iraqi leader.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Commander of Operation Iraqi Freedom says the search for Saddam Hussein and his other top associates will continue irrespective of what happens on the battlefield. I spoke with General Franks earlier today for a special interview that aired here on CNN's LATE EDITION.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: He's either dead or he's running a lot.
BLITZER: What's your hunch right now?
FRANKS: My boss doesn't permit me to have hunches, Wolf. He'll simply be alive until I can confirm he's dead.
BLITZER: Are you looking for his DNA at that crater at the...
FRANKS: The people with the appropriate forensics are doing checks you would find appropriate in each of the places where we think we may have killed regime leadership.
BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein?
FRANKS: Oh, of course, of course.
BLITZER: You do?
FRANKS: Of course.
BLITZER: So you'll be able to confirm a positive confirmation if in fact he was in that building?
FRANKS: Well, unless remains were removed. I mean one wouldn't ever want to say for sure 100 percent, you know, you can do anything. But what you should know is that we have the forensic capability to chase these things down, and we'll chase them down, every one of them, all the way.
BLITZER: On the subject of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, General Franks said it's still early in this process. But he says the search will continue.
FRANKS: I have not found any that I have absolutely satisfied myself are weapons of mass destruction, you know, materials. But you're talking about 2,000, 3,000 perhaps distinct places in this country where we know we're going to go, and investigate each one of them. We may have on a given day somewhere between five or ten or 15 site exploitations ongoing to in a 24-hour period of time. In each one of these cases, we will take products, do testing and so forth, and in some cases that testing will take actually maybe as long as this war has been going on, up to this point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: You can see the full interview, by the way, with General Franks during the 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour, a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. That will air later today, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. When we return, we'll shift the focus to the humanitarian aspects of this war. An official with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees will join us from Amman, Jordan. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
PETER KESSLER, UHCR: ... but in the last few days, we've seen some 30,000 people flee, mainly Kurds living in Baghdad and Nasiriyah. And they're now in camps just along the border with Iran. They say they're hungry, they say they lack food. They say the hospital in Basra; the town where they're located is full of people. We've spoken to some of these Iraqis, and we have a team going in with our partners in the U.N. community tomorrow to check on them to find out what more can be done to help these people. And how they can be helped to get back to their homes. But indeed, the main reason they're fleeing is because of the lawlessness, because of their fears for the insecurity, and, of course, the chaos that has occurred in some cities in Iraq in recent days.
BLITZER: What about in the north? Are people beginning to return to their homes?
KESSLER: Well, there have been signs of returns to Solamina (ph). And also some signs of return to Kirkuk. A lot depends on the insecurity. During the first Gulf War, actually, in 1991, relatively few people fled their homes. Relatively few Iraqis. It wasn't actually until after the Gulf War that the Presidential Guards and the Iraqi army came back with revenge in the south and north, did some 1.8 million people flea. Really, the situation inside Iraq is very uncertain. People watch what's happening with the winds of change. They're very nervous about the armed groups on the ground. They're very nervous about the looters and the fact that the Baath party's cadres may have simply gone underground, and they are nervous about the kind of control these people can exert on the population.
So clearly, we're concerned with the population, and of course, their needs for security. And it's important that the U.S. led forces, the coalition forces provide a policing factor a police element on the ground.
BLITZER: Mr. Kessler, we're concerned as well. Thanks for your expertise. We'll be watching this very important humanitarian side of the story. Peter Kessler, he is a spokesman for the United Nations high commissioner for refugees. Back to Candy in Washington.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Wolf. Another reminder for our viewers that at 8:00 p.m. tonight, CNN will have a special, the rescue of the POWs. with Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper. Again, at 8:00 tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: As you know, CNN has some exclusive coverage of those seven American soldiers who have been released now as POWs, saved by Marines. And that exclusive coverage, of course, has come to us courtesy of Bob Franken. And we want to go to Bob now -- Bob.
FRANKEN: Candy, this is the Marine base where the POWs were taken after they had been liberated. This is about 65 miles south of Baghdad. They were taken back north of Samarra, between Samarra and Tikrit. In advancing military unit there are contradictory version of what happened. One of the versions, the unit got into a firefight with Iraqis. And the other one, the Iraqi superior officers had all deserted and they went out to surrender. There's even a third version that they used as an intermediary, a local policeman.
Whatever happened, the seven came back to this Marine Base and helicopters very quickly thereafter. And bounded from their helicopter. Particularly the first five were in very good health. Remarkably good health. Only one had his arm in a sling. They were dressed in a variety of outfits, even one wearing pajamas a prisoner might wear. And in the next helicopter two others, including Shoshana Johnson, both of them somewhat injured, both were walking with a limp.
Specialist Johnson had a bandage on her ankle. The other one had undetermined injuries. But neither of them looked that serious. In fact, they were taken to Kuwait and they were looked at and they were not deemed that serious. And the seven are now very free tonight. It was a really enthusiastic, happy scene here. The evident happiness of the POWs, and happy for really good reasons. But for the very proud Marines who showed up. There were over 100 who came in their Humvees along the tarmac. Between the helicopter pad and the C-130, where they were taken to Kuwait. And as the ex-POWs passed by, they got a round of applause from the Marines who came out to show them. It was a happy day for everyone -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Bob, we want to remind our viewers that the reason this now -- these pictures are now so clear, satellite quality, not that your television has gotten so much better; these are satellite quality pictures that we're getting. Bob, how far in advance did you know this? How far is it from where they were picked up to where you are?
FRANKEN: I'm not quite sure of the distance. I would guess it to be about 50 miles or something like that. And how far in advance did I know? I was told about an hour before they came, that something was up. As a matter of fact, in another matter, dealing with coverage of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --- we had come up here. When I was told about this, I asked the people to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- are they coming here? And they said, no, but you will not be able to talk to them. They made it clear later that they were very, very happy that they had done that for the families to watch on CNN as their loved ones got off the helicopter into the plane.
CROWLEY: OK, Bob we seem to be loosing your audio here. Just a little bit, once again these are exclusive pictures, now satellite quality coming in of the seven former U.S. POWs who have since left that Marine Base where Bob is. And moved on and I believe they are headed for Qatar tonight and at some point because they are solders they will move on to Walter Reid Hospital here in Washington. Bob, I'm wondering, do we still have Bob on the line? Bob is gone, OK. Somebody needs to tell me where we are headed from here. We are now headed I think back down to Atlanta to check the headlines. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
