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Experts Examining New Saddam Tapes
Aired April 18, 2003 - 15:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: U.S. officials are examining the latest Saddam tapes with skeptical eyes, going through it with a fine toothed comb and our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is plugged in with his sources trying to figure out what they're finding out.
What do we know? What do we know for sure is not true about these tapes, David?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the working assumption of U.S. officials who are examining the tapes is that it probably is Saddam Hussein. If you look, in fact, one of the reasons is that not only do you see Saddam Hussein, but you see his son, Qusay, and it's unlikely there would be two body doubles out there.
So they're going to the working assumption this is Saddam Hussein, but the big question, the big question all day has been, when was this videotape made?
Now, you heard Jim Clancy saying that people in the neighborhood said they didn't see Saddam Hussein in that neighborhood on April 9. They did see him in March, earlier, when the war started.
Look at this other tape that was put out and said to have been on April 4. Said to have been taped on April 4. This was another walkabout, allegedly, by Saddam Hussein in a Baghdad neighborhood, the Al Mansour district. And on this one, U.S. officials have had time to look at it. And they say based on certain things on the videotape, in the background and so on, they don't believe this was made on April 4. They think it was made in the first week of March.
Now they won't be specific about what it is in the background and so on, that they base that judgment on. You also may notice that some of the individuals there are wearing clothing that would be a bit warm for early April, when it really starts to get hot.
So again, it looks as if, to U.S. officials, as if at least this tape was put out under false pretenses and may have been recorded earlier when Saddam was still in control of Baghdad and that could be true of the other tape, the one that came out today, as well.
Now, as we know, there's one other piece of evidence that came out today, and that's an audiotape of a speech of Saddam Hussein. Let's hear a quick portion here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): the lasting picture of this -- on our souls will not be accomplished by the invaders, except if, if the souls of the believers and the patients suffer some doubts that will shake their patience, and their ability to fight and engage in Jihad.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ENSOR: So some rather religious language there from the old dictator of Iraq, who never used to be religious but acquired religion at some point along the way.
But the thing is, there's nothing in the tape that suggests -- that allows the listener to know that he had certain information when it was made. So U.S. officials say that audiotape, even if they do identify the voice as being Saddam's and they expect to in the next day or so, really doesn't help them very much.
O'BRIEN: David, reminds me of that expression, there are no atheists in fox holes. Who knows, maybe he got some religion.
But let me ask you this question about the doubles. I know that Qusay is known to have doubles, as well. Why are they saying, just because there's a Qusay look-alike and a Saddam look-alike in one tape, that they would exclude them as being two doubles together?
ENSOR: They're not excluding it, Miles, it just seems unlikely to them.
Saddam did use doubles occasionally in the past. They don't have definite evidence he's done it recently. And in the trying circumstances in which the regime was finding itself by the time these tapes were presumably made, which is thought to be early March, it's just assumed that that probably was Saddam, that they probably didn't have their act together enough for it to be anyone else.
And they were trying to show people that he was alive. And you know, some of them would known him well enough to know the difference. The voice, for example. He doesn't speak on the tape, but those around him might have been able to identify whether it was him or not. The whole goal was to show the loyalists, he's alive still.
So the assumption is -- the working assumption is that that really is Saddam. And the question is, when?
O'BRIEN: David Ensor in Washington, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 18, 2003 - 15:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: U.S. officials are examining the latest Saddam tapes with skeptical eyes, going through it with a fine toothed comb and our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is plugged in with his sources trying to figure out what they're finding out.
What do we know? What do we know for sure is not true about these tapes, David?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the working assumption of U.S. officials who are examining the tapes is that it probably is Saddam Hussein. If you look, in fact, one of the reasons is that not only do you see Saddam Hussein, but you see his son, Qusay, and it's unlikely there would be two body doubles out there.
So they're going to the working assumption this is Saddam Hussein, but the big question, the big question all day has been, when was this videotape made?
Now, you heard Jim Clancy saying that people in the neighborhood said they didn't see Saddam Hussein in that neighborhood on April 9. They did see him in March, earlier, when the war started.
Look at this other tape that was put out and said to have been on April 4. Said to have been taped on April 4. This was another walkabout, allegedly, by Saddam Hussein in a Baghdad neighborhood, the Al Mansour district. And on this one, U.S. officials have had time to look at it. And they say based on certain things on the videotape, in the background and so on, they don't believe this was made on April 4. They think it was made in the first week of March.
Now they won't be specific about what it is in the background and so on, that they base that judgment on. You also may notice that some of the individuals there are wearing clothing that would be a bit warm for early April, when it really starts to get hot.
So again, it looks as if, to U.S. officials, as if at least this tape was put out under false pretenses and may have been recorded earlier when Saddam was still in control of Baghdad and that could be true of the other tape, the one that came out today, as well.
Now, as we know, there's one other piece of evidence that came out today, and that's an audiotape of a speech of Saddam Hussein. Let's hear a quick portion here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): the lasting picture of this -- on our souls will not be accomplished by the invaders, except if, if the souls of the believers and the patients suffer some doubts that will shake their patience, and their ability to fight and engage in Jihad.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ENSOR: So some rather religious language there from the old dictator of Iraq, who never used to be religious but acquired religion at some point along the way.
But the thing is, there's nothing in the tape that suggests -- that allows the listener to know that he had certain information when it was made. So U.S. officials say that audiotape, even if they do identify the voice as being Saddam's and they expect to in the next day or so, really doesn't help them very much.
O'BRIEN: David, reminds me of that expression, there are no atheists in fox holes. Who knows, maybe he got some religion.
But let me ask you this question about the doubles. I know that Qusay is known to have doubles, as well. Why are they saying, just because there's a Qusay look-alike and a Saddam look-alike in one tape, that they would exclude them as being two doubles together?
ENSOR: They're not excluding it, Miles, it just seems unlikely to them.
Saddam did use doubles occasionally in the past. They don't have definite evidence he's done it recently. And in the trying circumstances in which the regime was finding itself by the time these tapes were presumably made, which is thought to be early March, it's just assumed that that probably was Saddam, that they probably didn't have their act together enough for it to be anyone else.
And they were trying to show people that he was alive. And you know, some of them would known him well enough to know the difference. The voice, for example. He doesn't speak on the tape, but those around him might have been able to identify whether it was him or not. The whole goal was to show the loyalists, he's alive still.
So the assumption is -- the working assumption is that that really is Saddam. And the question is, when?
O'BRIEN: David Ensor in Washington, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
