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Government Shakeup
Aired May 12, 2003 - 13:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It might be called the Baghdad shuffle. The new man in charge of Iraq's reconstruction arrived in Baghdad today. Former U.S. diplomat Paul Bremer will replace retired Army Lieutenant General Jay Garner, and former U.S. ambassador Barbara Bodine is being reassigned. She had been the U.S. coordinator for central Iraq.
Our John Vause joins us live from Baghdad.
John, why so many changes?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, to put it simply, Kyra, because in the three weeks that he's been here, retired U.S. General Garner has really got very little to show for it. Baghdad is still without power. Many homes in many areas don't have electricity. Water is scarce at times.
And also in many ways the security situation here, in the capital especially, is beginning to get worse. There are gunshots every night. There are revenge killings. A U.S. soldier was shot dead in broad daylight just a few days ago.
And elsewhere in the country, convoys leaving Baghdad heading to Jordan are being attacked by roaming gangs on the highway. There's been a great deal of criticism, that Jay Garner simply didn't get out from behind the razor wire, out from those presidential palaces, and meet with local Iraqis to listen to their concern. And so he's now heading off.
And as you mentioned, Barbara Bodine, she's also heading back to the United States. We spoke to the U.S. officials here. They said she left last night, going to a senior State Department position.
But certainly she was the woman who was in charge of rebuilding Baghdad. She was the mayor of Baghdad, if you like. And really, there's been no local government here, no sign of it, and a very desperate situation. Garbage isn't being collected. So in many ways, they're paying the price for what is seen as a little progress over too great a time -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, John, let's talk about Ayatollah Al Hakeem (ph) a big day today, making his way back into Iraq, embraced by thousands of people. What's the talk about him where you are?
VAUSE: Yes, very interesting. He spent 23 years in exile in Iran. He had a triumphant welcome in Basra over the weekend. He's touring the south and central parts of Iraq. He arrived at his birth place, the holy city of Najaf. By all accounts, hundreds of thousands of people are there to greet him.
Now he is leader of the revolutionary council -- sorry, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution of Iraq. Now this is a group, which according to Washington, has very, very close ties to Iran. And this is the dominant Shia group.
Now it looks as though the Ayatollah will step down as leader of that group, establish himself as the spiritual leader of the Shias, which will give him even more power, because spiritual guidance is, by far, a much more powerful position than any government position that he could hold. And his younger brother, looks like he will take over the Supreme Council.
So he seems to be positioning himself to be the dominant Shia leader in Iraq. And that is interesting, because he's now talking about having a democratically elected, broad-based government which represents the majority of Iraqis. And as we know, the Shiites are in fact the dominant population here in Iraq.
So there is concern in Washington that he'll try to establish some kind of Islamic theocracy friendly to and similar to the one in Iran.
And already, he is making some statements, which is of concern to the State Department and the Department of Defense, things like the foreign forces should leave immediately. He said this is a big problem which must be dealt with.
So, as far as Washington is concerned, there's a great deal of concern about where he will position himself in coming days -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: John, you make a really good point. There's been a lot of talk about that, all of the different religious sects. How do you make everybody feel one again? I mean, this is a country, these are people that have not been able to express their religion. So I can imagine the biggest concern would be focusing on simply one religion as this country is led.
VAUSE: Well, the issue which will face Paul Bremer, for example, is trying to bring all of these people into one unified government, and this is very, very difficult. Donald Rumsfeld said an Islamic government is not acceptable, but then again, people may want that.
But when you speak to the middle classes here or the more educated people, they want a Democratically nonreligious government, if you like.
But still, bringing together all of the tribes -- the Kurds, the Christians, the Shiites, the Sunnis -- all of the different sectors of this community will be very, very difficult, indeed, and that's where it's hoped Paul Bremer will have success. He's a career diplomat. He's used to negotiating, and that's where many people are saying Jay Garner fell down; he didn't bring all of these people together, and they're hoping that Paul Bremer will have a lot more success in the coming days and weeks, especially compared to the last few weeks of Jay Garner -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: John Vause, live from Baghdad, thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 12, 2003 - 13:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It might be called the Baghdad shuffle. The new man in charge of Iraq's reconstruction arrived in Baghdad today. Former U.S. diplomat Paul Bremer will replace retired Army Lieutenant General Jay Garner, and former U.S. ambassador Barbara Bodine is being reassigned. She had been the U.S. coordinator for central Iraq.
Our John Vause joins us live from Baghdad.
John, why so many changes?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, to put it simply, Kyra, because in the three weeks that he's been here, retired U.S. General Garner has really got very little to show for it. Baghdad is still without power. Many homes in many areas don't have electricity. Water is scarce at times.
And also in many ways the security situation here, in the capital especially, is beginning to get worse. There are gunshots every night. There are revenge killings. A U.S. soldier was shot dead in broad daylight just a few days ago.
And elsewhere in the country, convoys leaving Baghdad heading to Jordan are being attacked by roaming gangs on the highway. There's been a great deal of criticism, that Jay Garner simply didn't get out from behind the razor wire, out from those presidential palaces, and meet with local Iraqis to listen to their concern. And so he's now heading off.
And as you mentioned, Barbara Bodine, she's also heading back to the United States. We spoke to the U.S. officials here. They said she left last night, going to a senior State Department position.
But certainly she was the woman who was in charge of rebuilding Baghdad. She was the mayor of Baghdad, if you like. And really, there's been no local government here, no sign of it, and a very desperate situation. Garbage isn't being collected. So in many ways, they're paying the price for what is seen as a little progress over too great a time -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, John, let's talk about Ayatollah Al Hakeem (ph) a big day today, making his way back into Iraq, embraced by thousands of people. What's the talk about him where you are?
VAUSE: Yes, very interesting. He spent 23 years in exile in Iran. He had a triumphant welcome in Basra over the weekend. He's touring the south and central parts of Iraq. He arrived at his birth place, the holy city of Najaf. By all accounts, hundreds of thousands of people are there to greet him.
Now he is leader of the revolutionary council -- sorry, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution of Iraq. Now this is a group, which according to Washington, has very, very close ties to Iran. And this is the dominant Shia group.
Now it looks as though the Ayatollah will step down as leader of that group, establish himself as the spiritual leader of the Shias, which will give him even more power, because spiritual guidance is, by far, a much more powerful position than any government position that he could hold. And his younger brother, looks like he will take over the Supreme Council.
So he seems to be positioning himself to be the dominant Shia leader in Iraq. And that is interesting, because he's now talking about having a democratically elected, broad-based government which represents the majority of Iraqis. And as we know, the Shiites are in fact the dominant population here in Iraq.
So there is concern in Washington that he'll try to establish some kind of Islamic theocracy friendly to and similar to the one in Iran.
And already, he is making some statements, which is of concern to the State Department and the Department of Defense, things like the foreign forces should leave immediately. He said this is a big problem which must be dealt with.
So, as far as Washington is concerned, there's a great deal of concern about where he will position himself in coming days -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: John, you make a really good point. There's been a lot of talk about that, all of the different religious sects. How do you make everybody feel one again? I mean, this is a country, these are people that have not been able to express their religion. So I can imagine the biggest concern would be focusing on simply one religion as this country is led.
VAUSE: Well, the issue which will face Paul Bremer, for example, is trying to bring all of these people into one unified government, and this is very, very difficult. Donald Rumsfeld said an Islamic government is not acceptable, but then again, people may want that.
But when you speak to the middle classes here or the more educated people, they want a Democratically nonreligious government, if you like.
But still, bringing together all of the tribes -- the Kurds, the Christians, the Shiites, the Sunnis -- all of the different sectors of this community will be very, very difficult, indeed, and that's where it's hoped Paul Bremer will have success. He's a career diplomat. He's used to negotiating, and that's where many people are saying Jay Garner fell down; he didn't bring all of these people together, and they're hoping that Paul Bremer will have a lot more success in the coming days and weeks, especially compared to the last few weeks of Jay Garner -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: John Vause, live from Baghdad, thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
