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Lawless in Baghdad

Aired May 14, 2003 - 13:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new sheriff in town, so to speak, in Baghdad. His name is Paul Bremer, and he appears intent on laying down the law, something Iraqis have said they'll actually welcome. As you probably know, Bremer's predecessor, General Garner, was criticized for not cracking down on widespread banditry.
CNN's Karl Penhaul standing by in Baghdad to clarify what's been happening.

Karl, we've had reports that there were a "shoot on sight" policy for looters. Now there is a bit of backtracking on that. Can you give us the real story from Baghdad, please?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles.

Yes, certainly, security is the number one thorn in the side for coalition forces right now. They just don't seem to be able to get a grip on law and order here. Looting is a daily occurrence, still. Some of the major buildings in the city, in fact, over the last few days have been set on fire, as looters break in and set fire to stuff that they've been unable to loot.

But today, General McKiernan and some of his counterparts -- those are the top generals in the theater of operations -- held this press conference, to clarify, first of all, they'll be putting more troops, more tanks in Baghdad.

At the same time, the looters will face an extended spell of about three weeks in special holding areas.

And also, the generals did clarify to us that, no, there is no, there is no "shoot on sight" policy. The rules of engagement have not been changed to that extent. One of the generals, General Blount, did explain to us the terms of how the soldiers will treat looters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. BUFORD BLOUNT, U.S. ARMY: Unless the soldier's life is threatened, we're not going out aggressively shooting looters, no. We have the right to defend ourselves, we have the right to arrest the looters. And if the looter puts up resistance or has a weapon and points it at the soldier, it's up to the soldier to make that judgment, whether he feels threatened or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: So, certainly, giving great clarification there on the earlier reports that we had heard that a different type of policy was now in place. What remains to be seen, though, is whether the new troops that are being brought in to Baghdad will be effective in policing the city the size of Baghdad, five to six million people -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Karl, watching this, you can't help but see the contrast between the brilliantly executed plan which got troops to Baghdad and what appears to be the absence of one, now that they are there. Is it simply -- is it a matter of a lack of a plan, or is it just sheer number of bodies on the ground? Do they need more people there?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly, some members within the coalition administration that's now running Baghdad and the whole of Iraq have admitted that events have really got ahead of themselves, and that they weren't prepared for the scale of lawlessness here. They didn't really have a firm plan of how things would pan out from here. They didn't envisage that it would be so difficult to put together an Iraqi-based interim administration.

On the other hand, like I say, really very little experience in actually policing a city of this size, where you've got to balance civilian rights with, obviously, military objectives -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Karl Penhaul in Baghdad, where sorting out the peace is proving every bit as difficult as waging the war. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired May 14, 2003 - 13:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new sheriff in town, so to speak, in Baghdad. His name is Paul Bremer, and he appears intent on laying down the law, something Iraqis have said they'll actually welcome. As you probably know, Bremer's predecessor, General Garner, was criticized for not cracking down on widespread banditry.
CNN's Karl Penhaul standing by in Baghdad to clarify what's been happening.

Karl, we've had reports that there were a "shoot on sight" policy for looters. Now there is a bit of backtracking on that. Can you give us the real story from Baghdad, please?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles.

Yes, certainly, security is the number one thorn in the side for coalition forces right now. They just don't seem to be able to get a grip on law and order here. Looting is a daily occurrence, still. Some of the major buildings in the city, in fact, over the last few days have been set on fire, as looters break in and set fire to stuff that they've been unable to loot.

But today, General McKiernan and some of his counterparts -- those are the top generals in the theater of operations -- held this press conference, to clarify, first of all, they'll be putting more troops, more tanks in Baghdad.

At the same time, the looters will face an extended spell of about three weeks in special holding areas.

And also, the generals did clarify to us that, no, there is no, there is no "shoot on sight" policy. The rules of engagement have not been changed to that extent. One of the generals, General Blount, did explain to us the terms of how the soldiers will treat looters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. BUFORD BLOUNT, U.S. ARMY: Unless the soldier's life is threatened, we're not going out aggressively shooting looters, no. We have the right to defend ourselves, we have the right to arrest the looters. And if the looter puts up resistance or has a weapon and points it at the soldier, it's up to the soldier to make that judgment, whether he feels threatened or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: So, certainly, giving great clarification there on the earlier reports that we had heard that a different type of policy was now in place. What remains to be seen, though, is whether the new troops that are being brought in to Baghdad will be effective in policing the city the size of Baghdad, five to six million people -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Karl, watching this, you can't help but see the contrast between the brilliantly executed plan which got troops to Baghdad and what appears to be the absence of one, now that they are there. Is it simply -- is it a matter of a lack of a plan, or is it just sheer number of bodies on the ground? Do they need more people there?

PENHAUL: Well, certainly, some members within the coalition administration that's now running Baghdad and the whole of Iraq have admitted that events have really got ahead of themselves, and that they weren't prepared for the scale of lawlessness here. They didn't really have a firm plan of how things would pan out from here. They didn't envisage that it would be so difficult to put together an Iraqi-based interim administration.

On the other hand, like I say, really very little experience in actually policing a city of this size, where you've got to balance civilian rights with, obviously, military objectives -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Karl Penhaul in Baghdad, where sorting out the peace is proving every bit as difficult as waging the war. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com