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Debate on Fate of the Big Fish
Aired May 14, 2003 - 13:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I had a great meal last night with my family, tuna kabobs on the grill. It was delicious, and even my 10- year-old boy tried it and liked it. But there's a study out there that says my son may not be able to enjoy similar meals when he grows up. As we told you earlier, that study warns some of the biggest fish in the ocean are alarmingly close to extension.
We sent CNN's Maria Hinojosa to Gloucester, Massachusetts. She found at least one fisherman there who isn't taking the bait. He says the water he trolls through, George's Bank, filled with fish. So which fish story do you believe?
Joining us now from Washington, John Connelly of the National Fisheries Institute, and Gerald Leape of the National Environmental Trust.
Mr. Leap, let's begin with you. Are they becoming extinct?
GERALD LEAPE, NATL. ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST: The most disturbing part of the study, being the 10-year study released today, is that 90 percent of the top predators -- the tuna, the shark, the marlin -- are all going on the verge of extinction. They're 90 percent gone. And I think that we really need -- this should search as a clarion call, a wake-up call to policymakers to work with us, to work with the fishing industry, to come up with management changes so we can have fish around for future generations.
This is 10 years of science around the globe. And if you look at the graphs, they all show the same thing, these serious, precipitous declines.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Leape -- or excuse me, Mr. Conley, what we're talking about here, 90 percent decline, and it's not just in one isolated location, it is all over the planet. That should be alarming, shouldn't it?
JOHN CONNELLY, NATL. FISHERIES INST.: We are disappointed in the study because other scientists in the fishery management area have disagreed with the conclusions of the study. As a matter of fact, the United Nations food and agriculture organization...
O'BRIEN: Specifically, what portion of it do they disagree with? The numbers?
CONNELLY: Well, the U.N.'s FAO, the Food and Agricultural Organization, have estimated in a study more than three quarters, or 75 percent of the world's fisheries, are actually operating at a sustainable level, and even those 25 percent that are operating at a depleted level, the industry is looking to find ways to improve the operations of those fisheries also.
So we're disappointed in the fact that this study is -- has used methodology of one type of type of catch gear, long lining, and really is based on only one nation's fishing practices, that's Japan, and they're trying to extrapolate that out across the whole world's fisheries.
O'BRIEN: So, Mr. Leape, did they cook the books on this study by looking at one specific type of fishing, one country that uses these huge sort of factory ships on the high seas?
LEAPE: Well, this is the latest in a series of studies. You shouldn't look at this in isolation. There's a study that came out earlier in the year, released by Daniel Polley (ph) from the University of British Colombia, that showed that the biomass in the Atlantic Ocean over the last 50 years had deceased by at least 50 percent. There's a study released yesterday by Noah Fisheries on the status of our fisheries, that showed we still don't know the status of 75 percent of the fisheries, and a third to half of them are overfished.
O'BRIEN: Is it possible it could be part of a natural cycle?
LEAPE: Well, that's -- inevitably, environment sometimes plays a role here. But the cost of not taking action to ensure that we have fish around for future generations is too great a cost to bear, and therefore...
O'BRIEN: All right, specifically then, what action would you -- I'm sorry, time is short, and I would like to at least get to the point of what action you would suggest, and I'd like Mr. Connelly to respond. Go, Mr. Leape -- you go first.
LEAPE: Well, I think the U.S. Congress should take a look at our fisheries, the Magnason-Stevens laws (ph), and strengthen the conservation provisions in there, the overfishing provisions, and make sure we can rebuild our fisheries to levels that are sustainable for all fishermen.
O'BRIEN: For those not familiar with the legislation, you're talking about regulating what is a very difficult industry to regulate. We're talking about independent operators out there, small businesses.
LEAPE: Yes, but they need -- they are part of a larger system, and we need to get more observers out there and better data, because we want a vital U.S. fishing fleet in our -- operating in our zone. And if we don't make changes, it's our concern they won't be able to fish around with their children and their grandchildren.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Connelly, is more regulation the answer?
CONNELLY: Well, I think we want to work with our government partners to ensure a sustainable fish supply. No one has a greater interest in ensuring a fish supply in the future than the fisherman who wants to pass the business on and his boat on to his son or daughter. That's why when...
O'BRIEN: But isn't it difficult for those fisherman to think globally, if you will, when there's some concern about just paying the mortgage on their boat?
CONNELLY: Well, there's an example I'd like to share with your audience about swordfish in the Atlantic. In the mid-1990s, there was a study that showed that those sword fish were being depleted. So the industry, working with our government partners, in an intergovernmental, an international operation, developed a fishery management plan, based on the best available science, that's available now, and the results have been astounding. We're now at about 95 percent of optimum level for the swordfish fishery in the Atlantic, and that's a great example of a public-private partnership working.
O'BRIEN: So in other words, it could be self-regulated, is that what you're suggesting, Mr. Connelly, brief?
CONNELLY: We suggest that government and industry work together, using the best available science, to ensure there's a sustainable fishery supply, in order to ensure that healthy fish is part of a healthy American diet.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen, we'll have to leave at that. Big subject, hard to compress into a short period of time. We appreciate you trying.
John Connelly, National Fisheries Institute, Gerald Leape, National Environmental Trust, thank you both for joining us from Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 14, 2003 - 13:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I had a great meal last night with my family, tuna kabobs on the grill. It was delicious, and even my 10- year-old boy tried it and liked it. But there's a study out there that says my son may not be able to enjoy similar meals when he grows up. As we told you earlier, that study warns some of the biggest fish in the ocean are alarmingly close to extension.
We sent CNN's Maria Hinojosa to Gloucester, Massachusetts. She found at least one fisherman there who isn't taking the bait. He says the water he trolls through, George's Bank, filled with fish. So which fish story do you believe?
Joining us now from Washington, John Connelly of the National Fisheries Institute, and Gerald Leape of the National Environmental Trust.
Mr. Leap, let's begin with you. Are they becoming extinct?
GERALD LEAPE, NATL. ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST: The most disturbing part of the study, being the 10-year study released today, is that 90 percent of the top predators -- the tuna, the shark, the marlin -- are all going on the verge of extinction. They're 90 percent gone. And I think that we really need -- this should search as a clarion call, a wake-up call to policymakers to work with us, to work with the fishing industry, to come up with management changes so we can have fish around for future generations.
This is 10 years of science around the globe. And if you look at the graphs, they all show the same thing, these serious, precipitous declines.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Leape -- or excuse me, Mr. Conley, what we're talking about here, 90 percent decline, and it's not just in one isolated location, it is all over the planet. That should be alarming, shouldn't it?
JOHN CONNELLY, NATL. FISHERIES INST.: We are disappointed in the study because other scientists in the fishery management area have disagreed with the conclusions of the study. As a matter of fact, the United Nations food and agriculture organization...
O'BRIEN: Specifically, what portion of it do they disagree with? The numbers?
CONNELLY: Well, the U.N.'s FAO, the Food and Agricultural Organization, have estimated in a study more than three quarters, or 75 percent of the world's fisheries, are actually operating at a sustainable level, and even those 25 percent that are operating at a depleted level, the industry is looking to find ways to improve the operations of those fisheries also.
So we're disappointed in the fact that this study is -- has used methodology of one type of type of catch gear, long lining, and really is based on only one nation's fishing practices, that's Japan, and they're trying to extrapolate that out across the whole world's fisheries.
O'BRIEN: So, Mr. Leape, did they cook the books on this study by looking at one specific type of fishing, one country that uses these huge sort of factory ships on the high seas?
LEAPE: Well, this is the latest in a series of studies. You shouldn't look at this in isolation. There's a study that came out earlier in the year, released by Daniel Polley (ph) from the University of British Colombia, that showed that the biomass in the Atlantic Ocean over the last 50 years had deceased by at least 50 percent. There's a study released yesterday by Noah Fisheries on the status of our fisheries, that showed we still don't know the status of 75 percent of the fisheries, and a third to half of them are overfished.
O'BRIEN: Is it possible it could be part of a natural cycle?
LEAPE: Well, that's -- inevitably, environment sometimes plays a role here. But the cost of not taking action to ensure that we have fish around for future generations is too great a cost to bear, and therefore...
O'BRIEN: All right, specifically then, what action would you -- I'm sorry, time is short, and I would like to at least get to the point of what action you would suggest, and I'd like Mr. Connelly to respond. Go, Mr. Leape -- you go first.
LEAPE: Well, I think the U.S. Congress should take a look at our fisheries, the Magnason-Stevens laws (ph), and strengthen the conservation provisions in there, the overfishing provisions, and make sure we can rebuild our fisheries to levels that are sustainable for all fishermen.
O'BRIEN: For those not familiar with the legislation, you're talking about regulating what is a very difficult industry to regulate. We're talking about independent operators out there, small businesses.
LEAPE: Yes, but they need -- they are part of a larger system, and we need to get more observers out there and better data, because we want a vital U.S. fishing fleet in our -- operating in our zone. And if we don't make changes, it's our concern they won't be able to fish around with their children and their grandchildren.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Connelly, is more regulation the answer?
CONNELLY: Well, I think we want to work with our government partners to ensure a sustainable fish supply. No one has a greater interest in ensuring a fish supply in the future than the fisherman who wants to pass the business on and his boat on to his son or daughter. That's why when...
O'BRIEN: But isn't it difficult for those fisherman to think globally, if you will, when there's some concern about just paying the mortgage on their boat?
CONNELLY: Well, there's an example I'd like to share with your audience about swordfish in the Atlantic. In the mid-1990s, there was a study that showed that those sword fish were being depleted. So the industry, working with our government partners, in an intergovernmental, an international operation, developed a fishery management plan, based on the best available science, that's available now, and the results have been astounding. We're now at about 95 percent of optimum level for the swordfish fishery in the Atlantic, and that's a great example of a public-private partnership working.
O'BRIEN: So in other words, it could be self-regulated, is that what you're suggesting, Mr. Connelly, brief?
CONNELLY: We suggest that government and industry work together, using the best available science, to ensure there's a sustainable fishery supply, in order to ensure that healthy fish is part of a healthy American diet.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen, we'll have to leave at that. Big subject, hard to compress into a short period of time. We appreciate you trying.
John Connelly, National Fisheries Institute, Gerald Leape, National Environmental Trust, thank you both for joining us from Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
