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Prosecutors Seek Info About Jayson Blair

Aired May 14, 2003 - 15:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, at this hour, "The New York Times" is holding a town hall meeting for staffers to discuss the scandal at the nation's paper of record. Executive editor Howell Raines and managing editor Gerald Boyd have some explaining to do.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Staffers want to know why former reporter Jayson Blair continued to be promoted despite a record of shoddy reporting, even outright fraud.

PHILLIPS: Also today, word that federal prosecutors have gone to "The Times" to seek information on Jayson Blair.

O'BRIEN: It's far from clear what they are interested in or what types of charges might be involved. So, that's when we get on the phone to Jeff Toobin, and we found him in San Francisco. Jeffrey Toobin is our legal analyst. Good to see you, sir.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, guys.

O'BRIEN: All right. I just -- it never even occurred to me that criminal charges could even be on the radar screen on this one.

TOOBIN: This is bizarre. I will tell you, the whole story is strange, and this may be even stranger. Federal criminal law covers a lot of things. It covers narcotics, it covers some crimes of violence, and it covers financial crimes.

But a lot of what people do wrong in life is not a federal crime. Plagiarism isn't a federal crime. Libel isn't a federal crime, making things up and putting it in the newspaper, which is what Jayson Blair did, in extravagant detail, is not a federal crime. It's very hard to see what exactly the feds are looking for here. It does not jump out as a federal case to me.

PHILLIPS: And there was talk about fraud, possibly, maybe his expense reports, but this is somebody that allegedly never even went anywhere, Jeffrey, right?

TOOBIN: That is what makes this so peculiar. The one area where it does seem possible is the area of expenses. If you, (AUDIO GAP) theory, file false expenses, that is a kind of fraud. There's no doubt about that. But that is almost never prosecuted criminally. What happens is, you get fired. You don't -- it's not a criminal case (ph).

O'BRIEN: That is like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. I mean... TOOBIN: Well, there's a long history of that, of not getting someone for the substantive offense. You get them for some sort of peripheral thing, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It does seem a little peculiar.

Also, there's an interesting First Amendment angle here, because one of the things Blair is alleged to have done is made up sources, and "The New York Times," even with a reporter who is engaged in tremendous misconduct, is not going to want to reveal how their news gathering works.

That's an area they are very protective about, so if the feds start investigating, "The New York Times" is going to be in an incredibly awkward position, because they don't like to cooperate with law enforcement, yet here, they obviously engaged -- or their reporter engaged in tremendous misconduct, so it's going to put "The Times" in a very uncomfortable spot.

PHILLIPS: And historically, newspapers and law enforcement definitely don't mix. We have got a quote here from the Associated Press we want to read. This is from Jayson Blair.

"I remain truly sorry for my lapses in journalistic integrity. I continue to struggle with recurring issues that have caused me great pain. I have not commented publicly on the lapses so far, but I want to make clear that no 'Times' employee assisted me in any of my deceptions."

Now -- Jeffrey, you have talked about, Hey, there is no crime here, so why is a New York attorney involved with this? Is this happening because this is "The New York Times," and somehow they want to keep it in the headlines to prevent something like this from happening again, and Jayson Blair is the scapegoat?

TOOBIN: I can't comment on the motives of the prosecutors, and we need to say, We don't know, necessarily, all the evidence that's available to the prosecutors. It is true that prosecutors -- and I used to be one and maybe this is a shameful secret, but when there are big headlines involving misconduct, prosecutors often line up to get a piece of the action. Everyone likes to be part of the big case.

What's so peculiar here is that the money involved is very small. You know, his false expenses add up, it seems, to a few hundred dollars, which is not something people generally make a federal case out of. Based on what is publicly available, I don't see what the federal crime is, but the prosecutors may know something I don't know.

O'BRIEN: Would it surprise you if there's somebody in the U.S. Attorney's Office who might have a bit of a grudge with "The Times" and would like to see the paper just kind of twist in the wind a little bit on this?

TOOBIN: Well, see, that's a really interesting angle to this whole story, because "The New York Times" is the most important newspaper in the country, and one of the things it does, it makes people mad, often. And there's the famous German word, "shadenfraud (ph)," joy in someone else's suffering, and there are a lot of people enjoying "The New York Times" twisting slowly in the wind here.

Could be the U.S. Attorney's Office is doing that as well. I used to work in a nearby U.S. attorney's office there. I think they have pretty high standards of integrity. I don't think they are doing this just to make "The New York Times" suffer. They must have something in mind, but boy, it doesn't leap out at me what they could be thinking.

PHILLIPS: We know you'll be watching. We'll check with you again. Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Jeffrey Toobin. Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired May 14, 2003 - 15:44   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, at this hour, "The New York Times" is holding a town hall meeting for staffers to discuss the scandal at the nation's paper of record. Executive editor Howell Raines and managing editor Gerald Boyd have some explaining to do.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Staffers want to know why former reporter Jayson Blair continued to be promoted despite a record of shoddy reporting, even outright fraud.

PHILLIPS: Also today, word that federal prosecutors have gone to "The Times" to seek information on Jayson Blair.

O'BRIEN: It's far from clear what they are interested in or what types of charges might be involved. So, that's when we get on the phone to Jeff Toobin, and we found him in San Francisco. Jeffrey Toobin is our legal analyst. Good to see you, sir.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, guys.

O'BRIEN: All right. I just -- it never even occurred to me that criminal charges could even be on the radar screen on this one.

TOOBIN: This is bizarre. I will tell you, the whole story is strange, and this may be even stranger. Federal criminal law covers a lot of things. It covers narcotics, it covers some crimes of violence, and it covers financial crimes.

But a lot of what people do wrong in life is not a federal crime. Plagiarism isn't a federal crime. Libel isn't a federal crime, making things up and putting it in the newspaper, which is what Jayson Blair did, in extravagant detail, is not a federal crime. It's very hard to see what exactly the feds are looking for here. It does not jump out as a federal case to me.

PHILLIPS: And there was talk about fraud, possibly, maybe his expense reports, but this is somebody that allegedly never even went anywhere, Jeffrey, right?

TOOBIN: That is what makes this so peculiar. The one area where it does seem possible is the area of expenses. If you, (AUDIO GAP) theory, file false expenses, that is a kind of fraud. There's no doubt about that. But that is almost never prosecuted criminally. What happens is, you get fired. You don't -- it's not a criminal case (ph).

O'BRIEN: That is like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. I mean... TOOBIN: Well, there's a long history of that, of not getting someone for the substantive offense. You get them for some sort of peripheral thing, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It does seem a little peculiar.

Also, there's an interesting First Amendment angle here, because one of the things Blair is alleged to have done is made up sources, and "The New York Times," even with a reporter who is engaged in tremendous misconduct, is not going to want to reveal how their news gathering works.

That's an area they are very protective about, so if the feds start investigating, "The New York Times" is going to be in an incredibly awkward position, because they don't like to cooperate with law enforcement, yet here, they obviously engaged -- or their reporter engaged in tremendous misconduct, so it's going to put "The Times" in a very uncomfortable spot.

PHILLIPS: And historically, newspapers and law enforcement definitely don't mix. We have got a quote here from the Associated Press we want to read. This is from Jayson Blair.

"I remain truly sorry for my lapses in journalistic integrity. I continue to struggle with recurring issues that have caused me great pain. I have not commented publicly on the lapses so far, but I want to make clear that no 'Times' employee assisted me in any of my deceptions."

Now -- Jeffrey, you have talked about, Hey, there is no crime here, so why is a New York attorney involved with this? Is this happening because this is "The New York Times," and somehow they want to keep it in the headlines to prevent something like this from happening again, and Jayson Blair is the scapegoat?

TOOBIN: I can't comment on the motives of the prosecutors, and we need to say, We don't know, necessarily, all the evidence that's available to the prosecutors. It is true that prosecutors -- and I used to be one and maybe this is a shameful secret, but when there are big headlines involving misconduct, prosecutors often line up to get a piece of the action. Everyone likes to be part of the big case.

What's so peculiar here is that the money involved is very small. You know, his false expenses add up, it seems, to a few hundred dollars, which is not something people generally make a federal case out of. Based on what is publicly available, I don't see what the federal crime is, but the prosecutors may know something I don't know.

O'BRIEN: Would it surprise you if there's somebody in the U.S. Attorney's Office who might have a bit of a grudge with "The Times" and would like to see the paper just kind of twist in the wind a little bit on this?

TOOBIN: Well, see, that's a really interesting angle to this whole story, because "The New York Times" is the most important newspaper in the country, and one of the things it does, it makes people mad, often. And there's the famous German word, "shadenfraud (ph)," joy in someone else's suffering, and there are a lot of people enjoying "The New York Times" twisting slowly in the wind here.

Could be the U.S. Attorney's Office is doing that as well. I used to work in a nearby U.S. attorney's office there. I think they have pretty high standards of integrity. I don't think they are doing this just to make "The New York Times" suffer. They must have something in mind, but boy, it doesn't leap out at me what they could be thinking.

PHILLIPS: We know you'll be watching. We'll check with you again. Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Jeffrey Toobin. Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com