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FCC to Vote on Media Ownership Rules
Aired May 27, 2003 - 15:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The Federal Communications Commission has scheduled a vote for next Monday that, depending on whom you ask, could be the best or the worst thing to happen in years to the nation's media outlets. If approved, the new rules would ease ownership restrictions on print and broadcast media.
One company could own multiple media outlets in the same market, and the number of households served by stations owned by just a single company would be expanded. Now supporters say that the changes make good business sense and that the existing rules are outdated. But opponents argue that the new rules would restrict program formats and reduce the diversity of ideas available to the public.
The five-member FCC, with three Republicans, is expected to pass the measure. Media conglomerates, such as AOL time Warner, the parent company of CNN, and Rupert Murdoch's news corporation do stand to gain from the proposed changes. One consumer group called moveon.org targets Murdoch in a television ad campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Rupert Murdoch. He already owns Fox Network, Fox News, Fox Sports, FX, a newspaper, all these TV stations. But he wants more. So on June 2, Republicans on the FCC plan to get rid of an important regulation so Rupert Murdoch can buy more TV stations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Well, with me now to talk more about the effort to ease media regulations are Richard Wiley, who is a former commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission, and Jennifer Toomey. She's executive director of the Future of Music Coalition. Good to have you both with us.
RICHARD WILEY, FORMER FCC COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
JENNY TOOMEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FUTURE OF MUSIC COALITION: Thank you very much.
WOODRUFF: Let me start with you, Richard Wiley. We just heard the TV ad that's being run, the argument being that whether it's Rupert Murdoch or AOL Time Warner, they're just going to gobble up more and more, people are going to have less choice, and that's bad for the consumer.
WILEY: Judy, these are old rules that have been outmoded largely in today's multimedia marketplace. I think the American public have more choices, more diversity, more competition than ever before. And what we're really looking at is, frankly, getting rid of some rules that don't make sense today.
WOODRUFF: Jenny Toomey, if that's the case, it sounds like common sense. Why not do this?
TOOMEY: Well, actually, that's the same argument that was made from the 1996 Telecommunications Act, which eliminated the caps on radio. And the Future of Music did a big study and proved that basically that has had a devastating effect on localism, competition, and diversity, which are the three principals by which the FCC is managing its bandwidth (ph).
WOODRUFF: Just give us a quick example of what you mean.
TOOMEY: Well, the national radio media is controlled (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Over 70 percent of listeners are controlled by four or fewer companies. That's one way. There's been fewer diverse songs, more homogenization of play lists.
WOODRUFF: So less choice, in effect.
WILEY: We've got more diversity of formats than we've ever had before. And I think just to look at a few songs and say based on that we've got less diversity just doesn't make sense.
WOODRUFF: What about the argument, though, that people at the local level aren't getting local news coverage. That what they get is something that's governed in one place, in a central location?
WILEY: I don't think the record will show that that's true. I think, actually, some of the bigger radio outlets, the decisions are made at the local level as to what kind of program you hear, and that's where it should be made.
TOOMEY: There's absolutely no evidence to that effect. And looking at actually the public record, at the FCC there's only 11 citizens that have asked for this to be eliminated, and over 9,300 citizens who have asked for these protections to be maintained in place. So the idea that there's evidence that there's more diversity, first of all, it's questionable, and there would be absolutely no reason to move forward this way without being sure that we have more diversity.
WOODRUFF: What about this argument, Richard Wiley, that there are so many more people who have asked to keep it the way it is rather than change it?
WILEY: Well, actually, I think this is the most comprehensive record the commission has ever established on this. If you look at the really substantive filings that have been made, you'll find that they are overwhelmingly in favor of getting rid of regulations or changing regulations that will let people have more news, more public affairs at -- in their communities. TOOMEY: Actually, that's just wrong. There were only 45 filings that are substantive that want these eliminated, and there were 99 that were substantive that said we should keep them, so that's wrong.
WOODRUFF: How do you answer that?
WILEY: I don't agree with that at all. I think if you look at the record, the record will overwhelmingly show that these regulations have basically become obsolete.
TOOMEY: We've looked at the record.
WILEY: If you take, for example -- take the newspaper rule. That was in 1975, put in when I was chairman of the FCC, at a time we didn't have cable, we didn't have satellite. Certainly didn't have the Internet. Today, I think newspapers bring more public affairs, more news coverage, more localism to broadcasting, and that would be good.
WOODRUFF: Why not? Why wouldn't it be a good thing, Jenny Toomey?
TOOMEY: Because when the major newspaper and the major television station, the same market are owned by the same person, there are no competing and antagonistic sources to actually get to the real news.
WILEY: Well, clearly, that's not true.
WOODRUFF: Are you saying that's the case right now? Because there are obviously some cities where you do have...
TOOMEY: There are a couple in the very larger markets that have actually been grandfathered, but there was actually a study by the Center for Diversity in Journalism that proved that that led to worse news, actually.
WILEY: To the contrary. The FCC's own studies show that of those 40 grandfathered that newspapers do a higher quality and more news and public affairs than other broadcast stations. And I think that's only demonstrably true. Newspapers exist to cover local issues. That's going to be good for television and good for ratings.
WOODRUFF: And you're saying television would pick up on that. Why wouldn't that be the result?
TOOMEY: Because, the fact of the matter is, when you actually have one person owning 85 percent of the journalists in one market, you are not getting competing sources.
WOODRUFF: Does anybody disagree, though, that what the outcome is going to be next week, that it's likely the FCC is going to vote for this opening up?
WILEY: I would guess that would be true.
TOOMEY: Yes. I think it's going to be voted, but I think it doesn't end there.
WOODRUFF: OK. Well, we will see. It's very good to have you both here to talk to us about it.
WILEY: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Richard Wiley, Jenny Toomey, good to see you.
TOOMEY: Thanks so much.
WOODRUFF: Thanks so much.
A reminder, FCC chairman Michael Powell is going to be discussing the proposed rule changes tonight on "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That's at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 27, 2003 - 15:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The Federal Communications Commission has scheduled a vote for next Monday that, depending on whom you ask, could be the best or the worst thing to happen in years to the nation's media outlets. If approved, the new rules would ease ownership restrictions on print and broadcast media.
One company could own multiple media outlets in the same market, and the number of households served by stations owned by just a single company would be expanded. Now supporters say that the changes make good business sense and that the existing rules are outdated. But opponents argue that the new rules would restrict program formats and reduce the diversity of ideas available to the public.
The five-member FCC, with three Republicans, is expected to pass the measure. Media conglomerates, such as AOL time Warner, the parent company of CNN, and Rupert Murdoch's news corporation do stand to gain from the proposed changes. One consumer group called moveon.org targets Murdoch in a television ad campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Rupert Murdoch. He already owns Fox Network, Fox News, Fox Sports, FX, a newspaper, all these TV stations. But he wants more. So on June 2, Republicans on the FCC plan to get rid of an important regulation so Rupert Murdoch can buy more TV stations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Well, with me now to talk more about the effort to ease media regulations are Richard Wiley, who is a former commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission, and Jennifer Toomey. She's executive director of the Future of Music Coalition. Good to have you both with us.
RICHARD WILEY, FORMER FCC COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
JENNY TOOMEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FUTURE OF MUSIC COALITION: Thank you very much.
WOODRUFF: Let me start with you, Richard Wiley. We just heard the TV ad that's being run, the argument being that whether it's Rupert Murdoch or AOL Time Warner, they're just going to gobble up more and more, people are going to have less choice, and that's bad for the consumer.
WILEY: Judy, these are old rules that have been outmoded largely in today's multimedia marketplace. I think the American public have more choices, more diversity, more competition than ever before. And what we're really looking at is, frankly, getting rid of some rules that don't make sense today.
WOODRUFF: Jenny Toomey, if that's the case, it sounds like common sense. Why not do this?
TOOMEY: Well, actually, that's the same argument that was made from the 1996 Telecommunications Act, which eliminated the caps on radio. And the Future of Music did a big study and proved that basically that has had a devastating effect on localism, competition, and diversity, which are the three principals by which the FCC is managing its bandwidth (ph).
WOODRUFF: Just give us a quick example of what you mean.
TOOMEY: Well, the national radio media is controlled (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Over 70 percent of listeners are controlled by four or fewer companies. That's one way. There's been fewer diverse songs, more homogenization of play lists.
WOODRUFF: So less choice, in effect.
WILEY: We've got more diversity of formats than we've ever had before. And I think just to look at a few songs and say based on that we've got less diversity just doesn't make sense.
WOODRUFF: What about the argument, though, that people at the local level aren't getting local news coverage. That what they get is something that's governed in one place, in a central location?
WILEY: I don't think the record will show that that's true. I think, actually, some of the bigger radio outlets, the decisions are made at the local level as to what kind of program you hear, and that's where it should be made.
TOOMEY: There's absolutely no evidence to that effect. And looking at actually the public record, at the FCC there's only 11 citizens that have asked for this to be eliminated, and over 9,300 citizens who have asked for these protections to be maintained in place. So the idea that there's evidence that there's more diversity, first of all, it's questionable, and there would be absolutely no reason to move forward this way without being sure that we have more diversity.
WOODRUFF: What about this argument, Richard Wiley, that there are so many more people who have asked to keep it the way it is rather than change it?
WILEY: Well, actually, I think this is the most comprehensive record the commission has ever established on this. If you look at the really substantive filings that have been made, you'll find that they are overwhelmingly in favor of getting rid of regulations or changing regulations that will let people have more news, more public affairs at -- in their communities. TOOMEY: Actually, that's just wrong. There were only 45 filings that are substantive that want these eliminated, and there were 99 that were substantive that said we should keep them, so that's wrong.
WOODRUFF: How do you answer that?
WILEY: I don't agree with that at all. I think if you look at the record, the record will overwhelmingly show that these regulations have basically become obsolete.
TOOMEY: We've looked at the record.
WILEY: If you take, for example -- take the newspaper rule. That was in 1975, put in when I was chairman of the FCC, at a time we didn't have cable, we didn't have satellite. Certainly didn't have the Internet. Today, I think newspapers bring more public affairs, more news coverage, more localism to broadcasting, and that would be good.
WOODRUFF: Why not? Why wouldn't it be a good thing, Jenny Toomey?
TOOMEY: Because when the major newspaper and the major television station, the same market are owned by the same person, there are no competing and antagonistic sources to actually get to the real news.
WILEY: Well, clearly, that's not true.
WOODRUFF: Are you saying that's the case right now? Because there are obviously some cities where you do have...
TOOMEY: There are a couple in the very larger markets that have actually been grandfathered, but there was actually a study by the Center for Diversity in Journalism that proved that that led to worse news, actually.
WILEY: To the contrary. The FCC's own studies show that of those 40 grandfathered that newspapers do a higher quality and more news and public affairs than other broadcast stations. And I think that's only demonstrably true. Newspapers exist to cover local issues. That's going to be good for television and good for ratings.
WOODRUFF: And you're saying television would pick up on that. Why wouldn't that be the result?
TOOMEY: Because, the fact of the matter is, when you actually have one person owning 85 percent of the journalists in one market, you are not getting competing sources.
WOODRUFF: Does anybody disagree, though, that what the outcome is going to be next week, that it's likely the FCC is going to vote for this opening up?
WILEY: I would guess that would be true.
TOOMEY: Yes. I think it's going to be voted, but I think it doesn't end there.
WOODRUFF: OK. Well, we will see. It's very good to have you both here to talk to us about it.
WILEY: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Richard Wiley, Jenny Toomey, good to see you.
TOOMEY: Thanks so much.
WOODRUFF: Thanks so much.
A reminder, FCC chairman Michael Powell is going to be discussing the proposed rule changes tonight on "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That's at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com