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Interview with Sen. Sam Brownback, Rep. Dennis Kucinich
Aired May 29, 2003 - 15:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: State Department officials tell CNN that the White House has decided to indefinitely postpone a high level policy meeting on Iran; a meeting scheduled originally for this week. They say that the U.S. wants to give the CIA more time to analyze Iran's nuclear program and whether it his harboring al Qaeda operatives. Another reason cited, an effort to tone down the rhetoric of recent days.
Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has called the administration's approach "dangerous and destabilizing". Congressman Kucinich joins us from San Francisco now. And Senate Foreign Relations Committee member, Republican Sam Brownback, is with us from Kansas City.
Representative Kucinich, to you first. The administration calling off this meeting. They're saying, let's give this some thought, let's see what's going on. Why are you so concerned about what the administration is saying?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, first of all, we have to look at their credibility as far as Iraq. I mean they led this nation into a war on the pretext that there were weapons of mass destruction. Now Secretary Rumsfeld's backing away from that; others are backing away from it. We've got to put them to the test of credibility.
There's no imminent threat from Iran. Iran has worked with the United States after 9/11. I don't understand why this administration is, once again, leading us towards a war. We need to -- we do need to back off, but we need this administration to not only tone down its rhetoric, but stop this belief that somehow the United States should be the policemen of the world.
WOODRUFF: Well, Senator Brownback, is that -- do you believe that's what the administration is heading toward? And what exactly are you suggesting should be done in Iran?
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Well, I'm suggesting what we should do in Iran is back the pro-democracy advocates. I don't think anybody is suggesting that you send in the Marines, but rather we should support those forces that are pushing forward democracy inside Iran, and it's a large group of the population that's pushing for this.
I think what the administration is probably doing right now is saying, we need some time to assess what's really taking place in Iran. And there are a lot of things that are going on right now in Iraq, in the Middle East peace talks. Probably saying that we need some time to really think through what the next step should be.
WOODRUFF: Congressman Kucinich, what about that? I mean, what would be wrong with supporting an opposition group challenging the leadership in Iran right now?
KUCINICH: Well, the question is, why should the United States be engaging in trying to destabilize any government anywhere? I mean, where do we go from there? We attempted to destabilize the government in Iraq and the next step was an invasion. I mean, we've got to look at what this administration has done in the past.
They put Iran within the so-called "axis of evil". They talked about Iraq in that way. They invaded Iraq. I think all Americans should be concerned that this administration has embarked on a policy that is going to make this country less safe.
You know terrorist experts are saying that the bombing of Iraq ended up being a recruiting poster for Osama bin Laden. What will our destabilization of Iran bring to us and how will it make America less safe? They can't demonstrate that.
WOODRUFF: What about that, Senator Brownback?
BROWNBACK: Well, you have in Iran the lead sponsor of terrorism around the world. That's according to our State Department, and it's been in that position for several years.
You have in the situation what's taken place in Iraq somebody that has used chemical weapons in the past and somebody who houses terrorists on their soil. And the thought process is that we've got to go at the terrorists before they launch at us. Not everybody agrees with that strategy, but I can tell you that if the terrorists are able to launch and get on our soil, we're in a lot more trouble than if we go at them before they can take off from whatever country might be hosting them.
Plus, I would point out, I think we're in better shape now, in dealing with terrorism. We're certainly not through the woods. We certainly have plenty of problems, but it is important that we go at them where they're located.
WOODRUFF: Congressman Kucinich, pick up on that. And also, on Paul Bremer. He's the U.S. envoy to Iraq saying today that it is this group from Iran that comes in. He said they're in the country, setting up social services. He said they're using that as their ticket to popularity.
KUCINICH: Well, first of all, this administration has created the circumstances for destabilization in Iraq, and they did it with the help of some Iranians. Iranians feel that, as far as the religious fundamentalists, that they have been giving an opportunity for a foothold and it's come because we helped to topple a secular government. I mean we have to keep in mind -- the American people, that is -- what this is all about.
This administration is trying to distract the American people from a domestic agenda. They did it in 2004, and it resulted in the Republicans holding control of the Congress because no one wanted to talk about a domestic agenda. And they're getting ready to do it in 2004. They did it in 2002, they're getting ready to do it in 2004.
WOODRUFF: Can we get a very quick last comment form you, Senator?
BROWNBACK: I think the administration is trying to do a couple things. One is trying to fight a war on terrorism. And, secondly, it's trying to grow the economy. This isn't trying to distract from a domestic agenda. It's trying to really address two big things at the same time which are very difficult, but I think is overall doing quite a good job of getting that done.
WOODRUFF: Well, we're getting two very different views from the two of you, and we very much appreciate you joining us.
KUCINICH: Thanks, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Senator Brownback, Congressman Kucinich, it's good to see both of you.
BROWNBACK: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Thanks very much.
KUCINICH: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 29, 2003 - 15:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: State Department officials tell CNN that the White House has decided to indefinitely postpone a high level policy meeting on Iran; a meeting scheduled originally for this week. They say that the U.S. wants to give the CIA more time to analyze Iran's nuclear program and whether it his harboring al Qaeda operatives. Another reason cited, an effort to tone down the rhetoric of recent days.
Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has called the administration's approach "dangerous and destabilizing". Congressman Kucinich joins us from San Francisco now. And Senate Foreign Relations Committee member, Republican Sam Brownback, is with us from Kansas City.
Representative Kucinich, to you first. The administration calling off this meeting. They're saying, let's give this some thought, let's see what's going on. Why are you so concerned about what the administration is saying?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, first of all, we have to look at their credibility as far as Iraq. I mean they led this nation into a war on the pretext that there were weapons of mass destruction. Now Secretary Rumsfeld's backing away from that; others are backing away from it. We've got to put them to the test of credibility.
There's no imminent threat from Iran. Iran has worked with the United States after 9/11. I don't understand why this administration is, once again, leading us towards a war. We need to -- we do need to back off, but we need this administration to not only tone down its rhetoric, but stop this belief that somehow the United States should be the policemen of the world.
WOODRUFF: Well, Senator Brownback, is that -- do you believe that's what the administration is heading toward? And what exactly are you suggesting should be done in Iran?
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Well, I'm suggesting what we should do in Iran is back the pro-democracy advocates. I don't think anybody is suggesting that you send in the Marines, but rather we should support those forces that are pushing forward democracy inside Iran, and it's a large group of the population that's pushing for this.
I think what the administration is probably doing right now is saying, we need some time to assess what's really taking place in Iran. And there are a lot of things that are going on right now in Iraq, in the Middle East peace talks. Probably saying that we need some time to really think through what the next step should be.
WOODRUFF: Congressman Kucinich, what about that? I mean, what would be wrong with supporting an opposition group challenging the leadership in Iran right now?
KUCINICH: Well, the question is, why should the United States be engaging in trying to destabilize any government anywhere? I mean, where do we go from there? We attempted to destabilize the government in Iraq and the next step was an invasion. I mean, we've got to look at what this administration has done in the past.
They put Iran within the so-called "axis of evil". They talked about Iraq in that way. They invaded Iraq. I think all Americans should be concerned that this administration has embarked on a policy that is going to make this country less safe.
You know terrorist experts are saying that the bombing of Iraq ended up being a recruiting poster for Osama bin Laden. What will our destabilization of Iran bring to us and how will it make America less safe? They can't demonstrate that.
WOODRUFF: What about that, Senator Brownback?
BROWNBACK: Well, you have in Iran the lead sponsor of terrorism around the world. That's according to our State Department, and it's been in that position for several years.
You have in the situation what's taken place in Iraq somebody that has used chemical weapons in the past and somebody who houses terrorists on their soil. And the thought process is that we've got to go at the terrorists before they launch at us. Not everybody agrees with that strategy, but I can tell you that if the terrorists are able to launch and get on our soil, we're in a lot more trouble than if we go at them before they can take off from whatever country might be hosting them.
Plus, I would point out, I think we're in better shape now, in dealing with terrorism. We're certainly not through the woods. We certainly have plenty of problems, but it is important that we go at them where they're located.
WOODRUFF: Congressman Kucinich, pick up on that. And also, on Paul Bremer. He's the U.S. envoy to Iraq saying today that it is this group from Iran that comes in. He said they're in the country, setting up social services. He said they're using that as their ticket to popularity.
KUCINICH: Well, first of all, this administration has created the circumstances for destabilization in Iraq, and they did it with the help of some Iranians. Iranians feel that, as far as the religious fundamentalists, that they have been giving an opportunity for a foothold and it's come because we helped to topple a secular government. I mean we have to keep in mind -- the American people, that is -- what this is all about.
This administration is trying to distract the American people from a domestic agenda. They did it in 2004, and it resulted in the Republicans holding control of the Congress because no one wanted to talk about a domestic agenda. And they're getting ready to do it in 2004. They did it in 2002, they're getting ready to do it in 2004.
WOODRUFF: Can we get a very quick last comment form you, Senator?
BROWNBACK: I think the administration is trying to do a couple things. One is trying to fight a war on terrorism. And, secondly, it's trying to grow the economy. This isn't trying to distract from a domestic agenda. It's trying to really address two big things at the same time which are very difficult, but I think is overall doing quite a good job of getting that done.
WOODRUFF: Well, we're getting two very different views from the two of you, and we very much appreciate you joining us.
KUCINICH: Thanks, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Senator Brownback, Congressman Kucinich, it's good to see both of you.
BROWNBACK: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: Thanks very much.
KUCINICH: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
