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Interview With Jack Daulton

Aired June 02, 2003 - 15:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Investigators are trying to fill in the blanks as they build their case against Rudolph. What evidence do they have against him and what don't they know, quite frankly? Joining me now to answer your questions is CNN's senior producer, Henry Schuster, he spent an awful lot of time in the Nantahal as well, and Jack Daulton, former FBI investigator who worked on that case as well. And I think has some experience up in North Carolina as well. Mr. Daulton, welcome to the program.
JACK DAULTON, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Thank you. Glad to be here.

O'BRIEN: All right. The news -- well, put it this way. Was there anything about this news that surprised you?

DAULTON: About him being captured?

O'BRIEN: Yes. And where he was captured, specifically.

DAULTON: Not where he was captured. I was beginning to feel like he was, perhaps, dead. After the long time that he was out of pocket, so to speak. So I was actually very, very happy for all the victims and for all the law enforcement people who have worked on this case for so very, very long.

O'BRIEN: So what led you to believe, as an investigator, that he would have stayed in the Nantahala? Just makes sense because he knew it so well?

DAULTON: Well, he was a survivalist, he was a loner. He had the capability of doing it. But it was also, he was very, very familiar with the area. Clearly, he had spent his lifetime in those mountains, or a lot of his life in those mountains. He knew them, he was known to go off into the mountains for weeks at a time. He was very, very comfortable there.

O'BRIEN: All right, but having said that, speaking with Henry Schuster a little bit earlier, brought out a point that I don't think a lot of people are aware of, and that is the fact that Eric Rudolph was fairly well traveled. And thus, it wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility that he might have fled the country, even.

HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN SR. PRODUCER: Yes, Miles. One of the things that we learned is not only did he -- was he well traveled, but he also had a fair amount of money. Turns out that Eric Rudolph has gone to one of the places he had gone to on more than one occasion was Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, where he bought marijuana seeds, high- grade marijuana seeds. One of the things that he did both in the woods behind his house and also in the basement of his house was he grew high-grade marijuana. And what we learned investigating Eric Rudolph's past was was that he had made a lot of cash. We were given a figure of sometimes 50, $60,000 a year over a period of several years, and there's no real evidence that he spent that money on very much of anything.

O'BRIEN: Very lucrative. But to make the turn from being a marijuana grower, allegedly, into what is alleged now, that is a big leap, isn't it?

SCHUSTER: Well, it's important to understand that even as a child or as a teenager, his money had taken him and exposed him to a lot of far right influences. He was taken to a compound in western Missouri.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUSTER: This is the video of the secret room where he grew marijuana inside the house. This was from a house tour when they were getting ready to sell the house in late 1995. One of the things that you'll see is you'll also see not only this, but you'll see the gray Nissan truck that was spotted later in Birmingham.

O'BRIEN: All right. Back to what you were saying now about his exposure to this.

SCHUSTER: Well, it is said that his sort of roots of hatred against the government, according to family legend, came when his father was dying of cancer and his mother wanted to use an experimental treatment known as Laetril (ph), back in the '70s, a treatment that had been deemed worthless by the government and had been banned by the government, and so the family legend goes that when he asked to use the Laetril (ph), when the family asked to use the Laetril (ph), they were turned it. And from that moment, they believed that the federal government was responsible, in their minds, for killing their father and husband.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, let's go to some e-mails. If you read "The New York Times" this morning, you have the impression that Hatfields and McCoys up there, the white lightning and all that stuff, and everybody's protecting everybody. But I want to point out a couple of e-mails to you and I want to throw some things out to Jack Daulton. This comes from Les who was in Murphy, North Carolina. And he says, "I've lived here for seven years now. I've never seen so much excitement. I don't believe I've ever run across Eric. I don't relish the idea either. He deserves the death penalty." And we say that, with the caveat, of course, if he were, in fact, convicted.

The next one is kind of on a similar vein. It comes from Larry Thornton in Asheville, North Carolina. "If Mr. Rudolph is convicted by a preponderance of evidence by a jury of his peers, it would certainly seem that he should face the possibility of that penalty," referring to the death penalty. Jack Daulton, the reason I bring these out is that I think that in some sense there's almost a stereotypical view of the way people in this part of the world feel about the likes of Eric Rudolph. What was your experience with those people and whether they were, in fact, harboring him in some way, shape or form?

DAULTON: I think there was a very small minority of people who supported Eric Rudolph. I don't think, by and large, the majority of the populace there supported what he did and felt that anything that he did was right. You know, I think that he was probably -- he could have been supported by somebody. I think the one time you have to bear in mind, the one time he actually sought out assistance, that individual tried to turn him in. Therefore, I think he would be very reluctant to seek out any further assistance from anybody.

O'BRIEN: So would it be your bet, Jack Daulton, that he was on his own for much of this time?

DAULTON: I think the vast majority of it, that would be my bet, yes.

O'BRIEN: Boy, that's saying something. Henry Schuster, that -- I mean, he comes out, he's well groomed, he didn't look like a mountain man.

SCHUSTER: Not at all.

O'BRIEN: And captured in a rather innocuous way. You almost had the sense that he was tired of running.

SCHUSTER: You do. You do have the sense. But one of the other things that struck me is when they said that he was talking to deputies -- and imagine now, there's the possibility that he might not have talked to anybody for five years. I mean, of course, they're investigating that, but we don't know.

The other thing I'm wondering if, what I was struck by when I saw the first mug shot of him, is I'm wondering if we have the graphic again that was flashed up just a little while ago. Now, on the left, what you see is the sketch that was made from some eyewitness in Centennial Park. And on the right is how he looks, is the man who was captured seven and a half years later, I'm trying to think if I'm doing my math right. Look at the resemblance there, look at the nose, look at the eyes.

O'BRIEN: It's pretty overwhelming when you look at it.

SCHUSTER: Yes, and Jack, Jack Daulton, if you can see that sketch -- what do you think seeing that now, comparing those two?

DAULTON: It is pretty eerie, quite frankly. It looks very similar to me, yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jack Daulton, Henry Schuster, thanks very much. We have one more e-mail. I just want to leave it on this, and if you go to the last e-mail on our list, the absolute last one from Prattville, Alabama, if we could scroll up one more. And it's from Manays in Prattville: "It's a relief knowing that a domestic terrorist such as himself has been captured." And we will put in the allegation there, but this is this person's statement. "As the first cousin of Alice Hawthorne, my family and I have been waiting for this for a long time." Alice Hawthorne, of course, the victim, the fatal victim of the Olympic Park bombing attack. We'll leave it at that.

Gentlemen, thank you very much, Jack Daulton, former investigator on this case, Henry Schuster, senior producer extraordinaire, we appreciate you joining us on LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 2, 2003 - 15:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Investigators are trying to fill in the blanks as they build their case against Rudolph. What evidence do they have against him and what don't they know, quite frankly? Joining me now to answer your questions is CNN's senior producer, Henry Schuster, he spent an awful lot of time in the Nantahal as well, and Jack Daulton, former FBI investigator who worked on that case as well. And I think has some experience up in North Carolina as well. Mr. Daulton, welcome to the program.
JACK DAULTON, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Thank you. Glad to be here.

O'BRIEN: All right. The news -- well, put it this way. Was there anything about this news that surprised you?

DAULTON: About him being captured?

O'BRIEN: Yes. And where he was captured, specifically.

DAULTON: Not where he was captured. I was beginning to feel like he was, perhaps, dead. After the long time that he was out of pocket, so to speak. So I was actually very, very happy for all the victims and for all the law enforcement people who have worked on this case for so very, very long.

O'BRIEN: So what led you to believe, as an investigator, that he would have stayed in the Nantahala? Just makes sense because he knew it so well?

DAULTON: Well, he was a survivalist, he was a loner. He had the capability of doing it. But it was also, he was very, very familiar with the area. Clearly, he had spent his lifetime in those mountains, or a lot of his life in those mountains. He knew them, he was known to go off into the mountains for weeks at a time. He was very, very comfortable there.

O'BRIEN: All right, but having said that, speaking with Henry Schuster a little bit earlier, brought out a point that I don't think a lot of people are aware of, and that is the fact that Eric Rudolph was fairly well traveled. And thus, it wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility that he might have fled the country, even.

HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN SR. PRODUCER: Yes, Miles. One of the things that we learned is not only did he -- was he well traveled, but he also had a fair amount of money. Turns out that Eric Rudolph has gone to one of the places he had gone to on more than one occasion was Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, where he bought marijuana seeds, high- grade marijuana seeds. One of the things that he did both in the woods behind his house and also in the basement of his house was he grew high-grade marijuana. And what we learned investigating Eric Rudolph's past was was that he had made a lot of cash. We were given a figure of sometimes 50, $60,000 a year over a period of several years, and there's no real evidence that he spent that money on very much of anything.

O'BRIEN: Very lucrative. But to make the turn from being a marijuana grower, allegedly, into what is alleged now, that is a big leap, isn't it?

SCHUSTER: Well, it's important to understand that even as a child or as a teenager, his money had taken him and exposed him to a lot of far right influences. He was taken to a compound in western Missouri.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUSTER: This is the video of the secret room where he grew marijuana inside the house. This was from a house tour when they were getting ready to sell the house in late 1995. One of the things that you'll see is you'll also see not only this, but you'll see the gray Nissan truck that was spotted later in Birmingham.

O'BRIEN: All right. Back to what you were saying now about his exposure to this.

SCHUSTER: Well, it is said that his sort of roots of hatred against the government, according to family legend, came when his father was dying of cancer and his mother wanted to use an experimental treatment known as Laetril (ph), back in the '70s, a treatment that had been deemed worthless by the government and had been banned by the government, and so the family legend goes that when he asked to use the Laetril (ph), when the family asked to use the Laetril (ph), they were turned it. And from that moment, they believed that the federal government was responsible, in their minds, for killing their father and husband.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, let's go to some e-mails. If you read "The New York Times" this morning, you have the impression that Hatfields and McCoys up there, the white lightning and all that stuff, and everybody's protecting everybody. But I want to point out a couple of e-mails to you and I want to throw some things out to Jack Daulton. This comes from Les who was in Murphy, North Carolina. And he says, "I've lived here for seven years now. I've never seen so much excitement. I don't believe I've ever run across Eric. I don't relish the idea either. He deserves the death penalty." And we say that, with the caveat, of course, if he were, in fact, convicted.

The next one is kind of on a similar vein. It comes from Larry Thornton in Asheville, North Carolina. "If Mr. Rudolph is convicted by a preponderance of evidence by a jury of his peers, it would certainly seem that he should face the possibility of that penalty," referring to the death penalty. Jack Daulton, the reason I bring these out is that I think that in some sense there's almost a stereotypical view of the way people in this part of the world feel about the likes of Eric Rudolph. What was your experience with those people and whether they were, in fact, harboring him in some way, shape or form?

DAULTON: I think there was a very small minority of people who supported Eric Rudolph. I don't think, by and large, the majority of the populace there supported what he did and felt that anything that he did was right. You know, I think that he was probably -- he could have been supported by somebody. I think the one time you have to bear in mind, the one time he actually sought out assistance, that individual tried to turn him in. Therefore, I think he would be very reluctant to seek out any further assistance from anybody.

O'BRIEN: So would it be your bet, Jack Daulton, that he was on his own for much of this time?

DAULTON: I think the vast majority of it, that would be my bet, yes.

O'BRIEN: Boy, that's saying something. Henry Schuster, that -- I mean, he comes out, he's well groomed, he didn't look like a mountain man.

SCHUSTER: Not at all.

O'BRIEN: And captured in a rather innocuous way. You almost had the sense that he was tired of running.

SCHUSTER: You do. You do have the sense. But one of the other things that struck me is when they said that he was talking to deputies -- and imagine now, there's the possibility that he might not have talked to anybody for five years. I mean, of course, they're investigating that, but we don't know.

The other thing I'm wondering if, what I was struck by when I saw the first mug shot of him, is I'm wondering if we have the graphic again that was flashed up just a little while ago. Now, on the left, what you see is the sketch that was made from some eyewitness in Centennial Park. And on the right is how he looks, is the man who was captured seven and a half years later, I'm trying to think if I'm doing my math right. Look at the resemblance there, look at the nose, look at the eyes.

O'BRIEN: It's pretty overwhelming when you look at it.

SCHUSTER: Yes, and Jack, Jack Daulton, if you can see that sketch -- what do you think seeing that now, comparing those two?

DAULTON: It is pretty eerie, quite frankly. It looks very similar to me, yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jack Daulton, Henry Schuster, thanks very much. We have one more e-mail. I just want to leave it on this, and if you go to the last e-mail on our list, the absolute last one from Prattville, Alabama, if we could scroll up one more. And it's from Manays in Prattville: "It's a relief knowing that a domestic terrorist such as himself has been captured." And we will put in the allegation there, but this is this person's statement. "As the first cousin of Alice Hawthorne, my family and I have been waiting for this for a long time." Alice Hawthorne, of course, the victim, the fatal victim of the Olympic Park bombing attack. We'll leave it at that.

Gentlemen, thank you very much, Jack Daulton, former investigator on this case, Henry Schuster, senior producer extraordinaire, we appreciate you joining us on LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com