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Suspected Bomber Had Good Survival Skills, Experts Say

Aired June 03, 2003 - 13:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: Arraignment is set for this afternoon for Eric Robert Rudolph, the accused bomber, captured Saturday after five years on the run, mostly in the woods, the Nantahala Forest of western North Carolina.
He will appear in federal court in Birmingham, Alabama, in about three hours. Rudolph is to be arraigned on charges relating to a 1998 bombing that killed a police officer and injured a nurse.

Brian Cabell is watching that story for us in Birmingham. When is it going to happen, Brian?

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it should happen within a couple of hours. In fact, we're expecting him to show up in a motorcade here. We don't know precisely what time or exactly what route, but within a couple of hours he'll be arriving here at the federal courthouse. And then his hearing will be at 3 Central time, this afternoon.

This after he spent his first day in a Birmingham jail cell. Officials say they're trying to treat him as much as possible like a regular prisoner. But of course, that's a little difficult. The security's much higher for him. The scrutiny, of course, is much greater.

But he has access to a TV outside his sell. He's receiving regular jail meals. He's gotten medical attention, just like any others. He's got visitors. He got a newspaper this morning so he could read about his case. He met with his two attorneys yesterday and there's a good chance that he met with them again today.

The case, of course, involves a clinic bombing some five years ago, in January of 1998, a dynamite blast early in the morning, set off by a remote control. One officer, an off-duty officer who was providing security, was killed in the blast. A nurse was maimed in the blast.

And according to officials, this case here in Birmingham seems to be the strongest of the cases against Rudolph.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MIKE HALE, JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA: I think the strength of the case, frankly, was just one aspect. What I really think carried the day here was the fact that, as the attorney general said, this case is straight forward. It is going to deal only with the evidence concerning the clinic bombing here in Birmingham, Alabama, and the connection to Eric Rudolph. You won't see, in this case, any evidence concerning anything that happened in Atlanta. It's not relevant. I know the defense will want to keep it out and quite frankly, the prosecution will.

And therein lies, I think, the strength of the case. It will be discreet, it will be straight forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Two factors in particular help the case against him.

Number one, his truck, his pickup truck was identified here. An eyewitness actually wrote down the license number. So that certainly helps the prosecution in this case.

Also, there's forensic evidence, according to officials, that ties the blast in Birmingham to his storage facility, his home and his truck up in North Carolina.

The best guess as to when this case might start, Miles, we're being told anywhere from six months to a year from now.

O'BRIEN: All right, Brian Cabell, watching it for us. Stay close and we'll check in with you as that unfolds today in Birmingham, Alabama.

Eric Rudolph told his jailors in North Carolina his five years as a fugitive were difficult. According to the sheriff of Murphy, North Carolina, Rudolph said he survived in the mountain wilderness by hunting game, eating acorns and lizards, shooting a bear, grinding up turkey bones for calcium, all kinds of survival techniques.

Senior producer Henry Schuster has followed the Eric Rudolph story from the beginning. Joining him is security specialist Tim Crockett, formerly of British special forces. Knows a thing or two about surviving in the wilderness.

Good to have you both with us. Henry, first of all, I'll start with you since you know so much about Eric Rudolph.

Yesterday, when we spoke, didn't surprise you a bit that the person who you've come to know, through your research -- not personally, but know through your research -- could survive for five years in that rain forest of the Nantahala Forest.

DAVID SCHUSTER, SENIOR PRODUCER: No, wasn't surprising at all. But one of the curious things to know is whether he did it all with survival skills or whether he did some of it breaking and entering into cabins?

There have been reports over the years, Miles, of cabins being broken into, summer homes that had been left idle for the winter. And sometimes at some of these break-ins there'd be curious things. Clothes would be stolen, maybe a little food. But for instance, a television set would be left. That had investigators curious. They could never tie it directly to Rudolph, but they were always suspicious that he might be out there. And that was one of the places that they would look.

O'BRIEN: Tim Crockett, is that part of survival school, if you see a vacant house and you can avail yourself of what's in there I guess that's part of the technique, kind of a hybrid of what should be taught, to purely survive in the woods, right?

TIM CROCKETT, SECURITY SPECIALIST: Yes, that certainly can kind of help you and aid you, especially if you're going to evade and survive in an environment for such a long length of time.

O'BRIEN: Take advantage of your natural surroundings.

Let's take a look at some of the priorities of survival. This is some of the things that Tim teaches people when asked, and also which are taught to people who end up in special forces type of situations.

The priorities for survival are fairly straight forward, but it gets down to the real basics of life. We're talking about water, food, shelter, and fire.

Now let's talk about water. First of all, in the Nantahala, plenty of that there. That wouldn't be a problem, right?

CROCKETT: Yes, you see, those are sort of the priorities of survival. However, the order in which you sort of need these obviously depends on the environment. Somewhere like that, you've got a lot of water, abundant supply, then obviously that's going to come down in the list of priorities. There, shelter may be more important than water.

O'BRIEN: And as far as food goes, plentiful amounts of food, you just have to know how to get it. This is a person who spent his childhood in those woods. He would have familiarity with all kinds of guns, certainly, and perhaps trapping techniques, as well.

SCHUSTER: Absolutely. Not only did he have familiarity with guns, but he also, we've been told, had been to gun shows in the past before he disappeared. So he certainly had them available.

But the woods were his background -- playground. He would literally go out his back door and he would be in the half-million acre Nantahala National Forest. And he knew those woods, especially the ones in the five-mile radius of his home.

This is an area that doesn't just have steep mountains. It's got caves and mines, and we had learned from people who knew him when he was a teenager that they used to play games in those caves, hide and seek. So he had a lot of hideouts.

O'BRIEN: All right. We're not just talking about survival, though, we're also talking about avoiding detection, Tim. And there's some things there that a person would have to be familiar with. It's sort of two things that would kind of be at odds with each other, to survive you want to set up a camp, build a fire, try to get some food. In order to avoid detection, you might have to stay on the run. Some of the things you have to watch out for, camouflage, how you move, and how you interact with the locals. What are some of the tips that you offer up?

CROCKETT: Yes. Again, if you're sort of happy with your environment and you've got the knowledge and the basic skills, again it comes down to sort of your mental attitude, really, on how you're going to cope with everything.

If you're aware of your environment, and then you know where an enemy may be or someone who's trying to sort of capture you, then again, you can sort of alter your movement, alter where you're going to stay for any length of time. And again, move and use the environment and your skills to your advantage.

O'BRIEN: So in many senses, despite the fact that an army at one point was after him, quite literally, he had the upper hand, didn't he?

CROCKETT: Yes. Again, it's sort of seen as he was probably, at time, sort of venturing into small towns, somewhere where he can get access to television, newspapers, going through dumpsters. These sort of things. They're giving him pieces of information, pieces of the story, which he can use to his advantage.

He said if they're looking for me in this area, I'll move to a different area. I'll lay low here while they conduct their sort of investigation somewhere else.

O'BRIEN: So Henry, what we're talking about here is not just survival, but evading detection, but also using a little bit of intelligence on the fringes of civilization.

SCHUSTER: Absolutely. One of the things he did -- that investigators learned that he did when he surfaced five years ago, that one time, was that he established a position, a stakeout position of a ridge above the cabin of the man he was staking out. And investigators, in fact, went back. He had actually dug over and cleaned up his campsite, but they found traces of it.

And apparently, they're finding that now. They're finding an area -- they found a campground of his above the ridge line near the shopping center where he was. So he would stake people out. He would stake out locations before he would move on them.

O'BRIEN: You get the sense, Tim, that this might have been a person almost uniquely qualified to spend five years in that woods.

CROCKETT: Yes. You can certainly see from how he's evaded capture for so long, and then come out in a relatively sort of fit, healthy sort of condition, that he's obviously an individual that has got the right elements to suit this environment.

O'BRIEN: The irony there is he was turned down by the Rangers, special forces. Interesting. Obviously, had the mentality for it. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Henry Schuster, our senior producer who's covered this story from the beginning; Tim Crockett, security specialist, formerly with the special forces of Great Britain. Thank you both for being with us on LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 3, 2003 - 13:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, ANCHOR: Arraignment is set for this afternoon for Eric Robert Rudolph, the accused bomber, captured Saturday after five years on the run, mostly in the woods, the Nantahala Forest of western North Carolina.
He will appear in federal court in Birmingham, Alabama, in about three hours. Rudolph is to be arraigned on charges relating to a 1998 bombing that killed a police officer and injured a nurse.

Brian Cabell is watching that story for us in Birmingham. When is it going to happen, Brian?

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it should happen within a couple of hours. In fact, we're expecting him to show up in a motorcade here. We don't know precisely what time or exactly what route, but within a couple of hours he'll be arriving here at the federal courthouse. And then his hearing will be at 3 Central time, this afternoon.

This after he spent his first day in a Birmingham jail cell. Officials say they're trying to treat him as much as possible like a regular prisoner. But of course, that's a little difficult. The security's much higher for him. The scrutiny, of course, is much greater.

But he has access to a TV outside his sell. He's receiving regular jail meals. He's gotten medical attention, just like any others. He's got visitors. He got a newspaper this morning so he could read about his case. He met with his two attorneys yesterday and there's a good chance that he met with them again today.

The case, of course, involves a clinic bombing some five years ago, in January of 1998, a dynamite blast early in the morning, set off by a remote control. One officer, an off-duty officer who was providing security, was killed in the blast. A nurse was maimed in the blast.

And according to officials, this case here in Birmingham seems to be the strongest of the cases against Rudolph.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MIKE HALE, JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA: I think the strength of the case, frankly, was just one aspect. What I really think carried the day here was the fact that, as the attorney general said, this case is straight forward. It is going to deal only with the evidence concerning the clinic bombing here in Birmingham, Alabama, and the connection to Eric Rudolph. You won't see, in this case, any evidence concerning anything that happened in Atlanta. It's not relevant. I know the defense will want to keep it out and quite frankly, the prosecution will.

And therein lies, I think, the strength of the case. It will be discreet, it will be straight forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Two factors in particular help the case against him.

Number one, his truck, his pickup truck was identified here. An eyewitness actually wrote down the license number. So that certainly helps the prosecution in this case.

Also, there's forensic evidence, according to officials, that ties the blast in Birmingham to his storage facility, his home and his truck up in North Carolina.

The best guess as to when this case might start, Miles, we're being told anywhere from six months to a year from now.

O'BRIEN: All right, Brian Cabell, watching it for us. Stay close and we'll check in with you as that unfolds today in Birmingham, Alabama.

Eric Rudolph told his jailors in North Carolina his five years as a fugitive were difficult. According to the sheriff of Murphy, North Carolina, Rudolph said he survived in the mountain wilderness by hunting game, eating acorns and lizards, shooting a bear, grinding up turkey bones for calcium, all kinds of survival techniques.

Senior producer Henry Schuster has followed the Eric Rudolph story from the beginning. Joining him is security specialist Tim Crockett, formerly of British special forces. Knows a thing or two about surviving in the wilderness.

Good to have you both with us. Henry, first of all, I'll start with you since you know so much about Eric Rudolph.

Yesterday, when we spoke, didn't surprise you a bit that the person who you've come to know, through your research -- not personally, but know through your research -- could survive for five years in that rain forest of the Nantahala Forest.

DAVID SCHUSTER, SENIOR PRODUCER: No, wasn't surprising at all. But one of the curious things to know is whether he did it all with survival skills or whether he did some of it breaking and entering into cabins?

There have been reports over the years, Miles, of cabins being broken into, summer homes that had been left idle for the winter. And sometimes at some of these break-ins there'd be curious things. Clothes would be stolen, maybe a little food. But for instance, a television set would be left. That had investigators curious. They could never tie it directly to Rudolph, but they were always suspicious that he might be out there. And that was one of the places that they would look.

O'BRIEN: Tim Crockett, is that part of survival school, if you see a vacant house and you can avail yourself of what's in there I guess that's part of the technique, kind of a hybrid of what should be taught, to purely survive in the woods, right?

TIM CROCKETT, SECURITY SPECIALIST: Yes, that certainly can kind of help you and aid you, especially if you're going to evade and survive in an environment for such a long length of time.

O'BRIEN: Take advantage of your natural surroundings.

Let's take a look at some of the priorities of survival. This is some of the things that Tim teaches people when asked, and also which are taught to people who end up in special forces type of situations.

The priorities for survival are fairly straight forward, but it gets down to the real basics of life. We're talking about water, food, shelter, and fire.

Now let's talk about water. First of all, in the Nantahala, plenty of that there. That wouldn't be a problem, right?

CROCKETT: Yes, you see, those are sort of the priorities of survival. However, the order in which you sort of need these obviously depends on the environment. Somewhere like that, you've got a lot of water, abundant supply, then obviously that's going to come down in the list of priorities. There, shelter may be more important than water.

O'BRIEN: And as far as food goes, plentiful amounts of food, you just have to know how to get it. This is a person who spent his childhood in those woods. He would have familiarity with all kinds of guns, certainly, and perhaps trapping techniques, as well.

SCHUSTER: Absolutely. Not only did he have familiarity with guns, but he also, we've been told, had been to gun shows in the past before he disappeared. So he certainly had them available.

But the woods were his background -- playground. He would literally go out his back door and he would be in the half-million acre Nantahala National Forest. And he knew those woods, especially the ones in the five-mile radius of his home.

This is an area that doesn't just have steep mountains. It's got caves and mines, and we had learned from people who knew him when he was a teenager that they used to play games in those caves, hide and seek. So he had a lot of hideouts.

O'BRIEN: All right. We're not just talking about survival, though, we're also talking about avoiding detection, Tim. And there's some things there that a person would have to be familiar with. It's sort of two things that would kind of be at odds with each other, to survive you want to set up a camp, build a fire, try to get some food. In order to avoid detection, you might have to stay on the run. Some of the things you have to watch out for, camouflage, how you move, and how you interact with the locals. What are some of the tips that you offer up?

CROCKETT: Yes. Again, if you're sort of happy with your environment and you've got the knowledge and the basic skills, again it comes down to sort of your mental attitude, really, on how you're going to cope with everything.

If you're aware of your environment, and then you know where an enemy may be or someone who's trying to sort of capture you, then again, you can sort of alter your movement, alter where you're going to stay for any length of time. And again, move and use the environment and your skills to your advantage.

O'BRIEN: So in many senses, despite the fact that an army at one point was after him, quite literally, he had the upper hand, didn't he?

CROCKETT: Yes. Again, it's sort of seen as he was probably, at time, sort of venturing into small towns, somewhere where he can get access to television, newspapers, going through dumpsters. These sort of things. They're giving him pieces of information, pieces of the story, which he can use to his advantage.

He said if they're looking for me in this area, I'll move to a different area. I'll lay low here while they conduct their sort of investigation somewhere else.

O'BRIEN: So Henry, what we're talking about here is not just survival, but evading detection, but also using a little bit of intelligence on the fringes of civilization.

SCHUSTER: Absolutely. One of the things he did -- that investigators learned that he did when he surfaced five years ago, that one time, was that he established a position, a stakeout position of a ridge above the cabin of the man he was staking out. And investigators, in fact, went back. He had actually dug over and cleaned up his campsite, but they found traces of it.

And apparently, they're finding that now. They're finding an area -- they found a campground of his above the ridge line near the shopping center where he was. So he would stake people out. He would stake out locations before he would move on them.

O'BRIEN: You get the sense, Tim, that this might have been a person almost uniquely qualified to spend five years in that woods.

CROCKETT: Yes. You can certainly see from how he's evaded capture for so long, and then come out in a relatively sort of fit, healthy sort of condition, that he's obviously an individual that has got the right elements to suit this environment.

O'BRIEN: The irony there is he was turned down by the Rangers, special forces. Interesting. Obviously, had the mentality for it. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Henry Schuster, our senior producer who's covered this story from the beginning; Tim Crockett, security specialist, formerly with the special forces of Great Britain. Thank you both for being with us on LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com