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Interview With Author Gerald Nachman

Aired June 12, 2003 - 15:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The comedians of the 1950s and '60s did more than make Americans laugh. They created a socially aware style of humor by mastering the use of satire. Author Gerald Nachman chronicled these comedians and humorists in his new book, "Seriously Funny: The Rebel Comedian of the 1950s and 1960s." Gerald Nachman is with me now from San Francisco.
They really were rebels, weren't they?

GERALD NACHMAN, AUTHOR, "SERIOUSLY FUNNY": Well, in various ways. They talked about politics, they talked about what was going on in America. They weren't noisy rebels. A lot of them -- the kind of comedy they did was really revolutionary.

They did a comedy totally different than what had gone before, which were people who were kind of interchangeable standup comics who would do one-liners about their mothers-in-law. These comedians really had something to say.

WOODRUFF: Let's talk about some of the ones that you single out. You pick out 26. And I know it was a tough selecting job for you.

Let's talk about Mort Sahl. People know that he wrote for John Kennedy. What else should we know about him?

NACHMAN: Well, he redefined comedy. He broke down a lot of barriers. And he -- first of all, he looked different the way he dressed. Comedians of that era came out, they looked like bandleaders in tuxs, in cumberbuns and gold chains. And Sahl came out in V-neck sweater with an open collar and slacks and he carried a newspaper, and he was a young guy and he dressed like a young guy right off the UC Berkeley campus.

And he talked about what was on his mind, what he really cared about. He didn't buy jokes and steal jokes, he wrote his own material. That was totally new.

And he talked in a very conversational way. It wasn't just bam, bam, bam, one-liners. You know, he did talk rapidly, but he had -- he was critical. He had a social conscience.

WOODRUFF: I was really struck by your chapter on Mike Nichols and Elaine May. We still hear a lot about them. But I was surprised to find out they were only together, what, four or five years?

NACHMAN: That's right. And because their influence was so great at the time, they talked about relationships. That was a whole new idea, that was a whole new word, really, in those days. It's now become a cliche we're all tired of.

They were really talking about sort of shifting arrangement between men and women. And how men and women get along, got along and they had a very -- they were really outstanding comedians.

They came out of Second City. They were just very clever, funny, inventive actors. And did little sketches they put down on records. And, as you say, it only lasted a few years. And it's just a crime that they didn't go on forever, as far as I'm concerned. And the same with Sahl and others.

WOODRUFF: What about -- I was just going to say -- I just want to mention a couple others. Woody Allen -- we think we know a lot about Woody Allen, but his career is remarkable.

NACHMAN: Well, a lot of people grew up watching his movies don't even know that he had a very successful -- a huge standup career. And the same with Bill Cosby.

Woody Allen was different because he was not really a comedian, wasn't a performer, he kind of created himself and his managers created him as a standup comedian. And he talked about his interior life. That was also very new to that period.

Comics never told about what was really on their mind, you know, and in their heart. And it was all funny stuff. But it was acerbic, and it was making some commentary.

WOODRUFF: I also wanted to ask you about Bill Cosby and some of the others. But I want to get to the point of the '50s. People think of that as a quiet, sort of sleepy decade. But one of your main theses is that it was out of that very quiet era that arose this remarkable social commentary.

NACHMAN: Yes. I think because it was partly a politically repressive age and also that sort of an age of conformity as it's been too easily branded. I think there was a lot of stuff going on that exploded later in the '60s.

And as I say in the book, a lot of these comedians were harbingers of that. Sahl, with his political cynicism, and Dick Gregory, who came along right at the time of the civil rights struggle, he was talking about that. It just was this amazing confluence of comedy and comedians who were all unique and literate and sophisticated. And you know, I don't see any of that today, unfortunately.

WOODRUFF: Well, it's definitely a different time. But they're all in here. The book is "Seriously Funny." And everybody from Bob Newhart to Woody Allen to Joan Rivers, they're all in here. And Gerald Nachman, we thank you so much for talking with us about the book.

NACHMAN: Well thank you very much for your time. WOODRUFF: Again, it's "Seriously Funny," Gerald Nachman.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 12, 2003 - 15:19   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The comedians of the 1950s and '60s did more than make Americans laugh. They created a socially aware style of humor by mastering the use of satire. Author Gerald Nachman chronicled these comedians and humorists in his new book, "Seriously Funny: The Rebel Comedian of the 1950s and 1960s." Gerald Nachman is with me now from San Francisco.
They really were rebels, weren't they?

GERALD NACHMAN, AUTHOR, "SERIOUSLY FUNNY": Well, in various ways. They talked about politics, they talked about what was going on in America. They weren't noisy rebels. A lot of them -- the kind of comedy they did was really revolutionary.

They did a comedy totally different than what had gone before, which were people who were kind of interchangeable standup comics who would do one-liners about their mothers-in-law. These comedians really had something to say.

WOODRUFF: Let's talk about some of the ones that you single out. You pick out 26. And I know it was a tough selecting job for you.

Let's talk about Mort Sahl. People know that he wrote for John Kennedy. What else should we know about him?

NACHMAN: Well, he redefined comedy. He broke down a lot of barriers. And he -- first of all, he looked different the way he dressed. Comedians of that era came out, they looked like bandleaders in tuxs, in cumberbuns and gold chains. And Sahl came out in V-neck sweater with an open collar and slacks and he carried a newspaper, and he was a young guy and he dressed like a young guy right off the UC Berkeley campus.

And he talked about what was on his mind, what he really cared about. He didn't buy jokes and steal jokes, he wrote his own material. That was totally new.

And he talked in a very conversational way. It wasn't just bam, bam, bam, one-liners. You know, he did talk rapidly, but he had -- he was critical. He had a social conscience.

WOODRUFF: I was really struck by your chapter on Mike Nichols and Elaine May. We still hear a lot about them. But I was surprised to find out they were only together, what, four or five years?

NACHMAN: That's right. And because their influence was so great at the time, they talked about relationships. That was a whole new idea, that was a whole new word, really, in those days. It's now become a cliche we're all tired of.

They were really talking about sort of shifting arrangement between men and women. And how men and women get along, got along and they had a very -- they were really outstanding comedians.

They came out of Second City. They were just very clever, funny, inventive actors. And did little sketches they put down on records. And, as you say, it only lasted a few years. And it's just a crime that they didn't go on forever, as far as I'm concerned. And the same with Sahl and others.

WOODRUFF: What about -- I was just going to say -- I just want to mention a couple others. Woody Allen -- we think we know a lot about Woody Allen, but his career is remarkable.

NACHMAN: Well, a lot of people grew up watching his movies don't even know that he had a very successful -- a huge standup career. And the same with Bill Cosby.

Woody Allen was different because he was not really a comedian, wasn't a performer, he kind of created himself and his managers created him as a standup comedian. And he talked about his interior life. That was also very new to that period.

Comics never told about what was really on their mind, you know, and in their heart. And it was all funny stuff. But it was acerbic, and it was making some commentary.

WOODRUFF: I also wanted to ask you about Bill Cosby and some of the others. But I want to get to the point of the '50s. People think of that as a quiet, sort of sleepy decade. But one of your main theses is that it was out of that very quiet era that arose this remarkable social commentary.

NACHMAN: Yes. I think because it was partly a politically repressive age and also that sort of an age of conformity as it's been too easily branded. I think there was a lot of stuff going on that exploded later in the '60s.

And as I say in the book, a lot of these comedians were harbingers of that. Sahl, with his political cynicism, and Dick Gregory, who came along right at the time of the civil rights struggle, he was talking about that. It just was this amazing confluence of comedy and comedians who were all unique and literate and sophisticated. And you know, I don't see any of that today, unfortunately.

WOODRUFF: Well, it's definitely a different time. But they're all in here. The book is "Seriously Funny." And everybody from Bob Newhart to Woody Allen to Joan Rivers, they're all in here. And Gerald Nachman, we thank you so much for talking with us about the book.

NACHMAN: Well thank you very much for your time. WOODRUFF: Again, it's "Seriously Funny," Gerald Nachman.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com