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Interview With Former University of Michigan President Lee Bollinger

Aired June 23, 2003 - 14:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The lawsuits against the University of Michigan were filed in 1997. Now that was the year Lee Bollinger took over as university president, and he's named as a defendant in both suits resolved today.
Bollinger has moved on now from Michigan to the presidency of Columbia University, where he joins us now live from New York.

President Bollinger, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

LEE BOLLINGER, PRESIDENT, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, I first have to ask you, going back to 1973, you had just got out of law school. You were a clerk, a law clerk for Chief Justice Burger. Is this sort of strange for you now all of a sudden to bear witness to something with your name?

BOLLINGER: It's very strange. I never thought that I would be back in the Supreme Court with a case bearing my name, and I never thought that the issue would actually come back before the Supreme Court. I must say that it is very gratifying to have the outcome that we had today.

PHILLIPS: Well, take us back quickly. Have you ever experienced systematic discrimination?

BOLLINGER: I have not in my lifetime. I have written and said that I have been, as everyone else, the victim of occasional unfairness, but I've never really experienced the kind of systematic discrimination that some members of our society have.

PHILLIPS: So, why did you devise this policy at Michigan? And what did you hope to achieve by doing so?

BOLLINGER: Well, first of all, it wasn't just me. I was not the only one who devised the policy. This is really an outgrowth of years of effort by the university and by the faculty, as well as the administration, to try to have an integrated student body for the benefit of all students. And it's also representative of policies throughout the United States, so it's really higher education and it's society that is at stake here.

PHILLIPS: Well, I was reading the former UM provost, as you know, Nancy Cantor had recruited a team of social scientists to prove that diversity improves education for all students and that successful affirmative action programs had helped build a black middle class. What did this show? And how did it influence your Michigan mandates?

BOLLINGER: Well, those studies were really confirming of a general educational sense that people at Michigan -- but, again, throughout higher education in the United States -- have felt mainly that to educate our students for a very diverse world that they will inherit. It's extremely important for them to be around people who come from all different parts of our world. And just as for years we have tried to have geographically diverse, internationally diverse and socio-economically diverse student bodies, we also want racially and ethnically diverse student bodies. And it's really for the educational benefit of all students.

PHILLIPS: So, do you believe there's just no other way to diversify a campus without giving preferential treatment to minorities?

BOLLINGER: It's not really preferential treatment, and that's been part of the argument in the case. It's really doing the same thing that we have done for decades, really, in trying to get students from different parts of the United States, trying to get students from abroad and the like. So, it's a basic, it's a profound educational policy judgment that says in order for students to really learn about the world that they will inherit, it's extremely important for them to be around people who are different from themselves and have different life experiences. So, that's really the judgment.

PHILLIPS: Well, I can just imagine what it's like for you to be at a cocktail party or a function and you have students and others coming up to you, saying, OK, explain to me, Mr. President, how do you justify that argument, the argument that you hear so much, surrounded around this issue about, OK, I'm a white student and I'm qualified and I'm getting turned down because a lesser-qualified minority is getting my spot? How do you respond? I'm sure you get that constantly.

BOLLINGER: Again, it's very important to realize that the overwhelming amount of what's taken into account in admissions has to do with very, very common academic criteria like grade point average, the difficulty of the curriculum that you've taken and standardized test score performance. So, really what is primarily looked at is how well you've done as a student.

But we also take into account a lot of other factors. We want people who have immigrated to the United States and perhaps had not quite the grade point averages as other students, but really has performed with incredible talent and drive and can take advantage of an education.

That's just one among many examples of things that really should play in the final decision about who gets admitted. And it really is a mistake and it's not really fair to take one of those considerations in this case -- race or ethnicity -- and to single that out as the reason why one didn't get in and other students did. So, it's very, very important to think comprehensively about admissions policies on our campuses.

PHILLIPS: And finally, I just have to ask you, how is today's ruling going to affect your university, Columbia University, and others?

BOLLINGER: This was a great victory, really, for higher education, and the reason is because the fundamental principle was upheld. The majority of the court has now said, really with great confidence and great clarity, that race can be considered in order to get an integrated student body. And so, Columbia, which has a long history of having an outstanding and diverse student body, will be able to continue doing that, as will other selective universities throughout the United States.

PHILLIPS: President Lee Bollinger, we appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us today.

BOLLINGER: Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





Bollinger>


Aired June 23, 2003 - 14:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The lawsuits against the University of Michigan were filed in 1997. Now that was the year Lee Bollinger took over as university president, and he's named as a defendant in both suits resolved today.
Bollinger has moved on now from Michigan to the presidency of Columbia University, where he joins us now live from New York.

President Bollinger, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

LEE BOLLINGER, PRESIDENT, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, I first have to ask you, going back to 1973, you had just got out of law school. You were a clerk, a law clerk for Chief Justice Burger. Is this sort of strange for you now all of a sudden to bear witness to something with your name?

BOLLINGER: It's very strange. I never thought that I would be back in the Supreme Court with a case bearing my name, and I never thought that the issue would actually come back before the Supreme Court. I must say that it is very gratifying to have the outcome that we had today.

PHILLIPS: Well, take us back quickly. Have you ever experienced systematic discrimination?

BOLLINGER: I have not in my lifetime. I have written and said that I have been, as everyone else, the victim of occasional unfairness, but I've never really experienced the kind of systematic discrimination that some members of our society have.

PHILLIPS: So, why did you devise this policy at Michigan? And what did you hope to achieve by doing so?

BOLLINGER: Well, first of all, it wasn't just me. I was not the only one who devised the policy. This is really an outgrowth of years of effort by the university and by the faculty, as well as the administration, to try to have an integrated student body for the benefit of all students. And it's also representative of policies throughout the United States, so it's really higher education and it's society that is at stake here.

PHILLIPS: Well, I was reading the former UM provost, as you know, Nancy Cantor had recruited a team of social scientists to prove that diversity improves education for all students and that successful affirmative action programs had helped build a black middle class. What did this show? And how did it influence your Michigan mandates?

BOLLINGER: Well, those studies were really confirming of a general educational sense that people at Michigan -- but, again, throughout higher education in the United States -- have felt mainly that to educate our students for a very diverse world that they will inherit. It's extremely important for them to be around people who come from all different parts of our world. And just as for years we have tried to have geographically diverse, internationally diverse and socio-economically diverse student bodies, we also want racially and ethnically diverse student bodies. And it's really for the educational benefit of all students.

PHILLIPS: So, do you believe there's just no other way to diversify a campus without giving preferential treatment to minorities?

BOLLINGER: It's not really preferential treatment, and that's been part of the argument in the case. It's really doing the same thing that we have done for decades, really, in trying to get students from different parts of the United States, trying to get students from abroad and the like. So, it's a basic, it's a profound educational policy judgment that says in order for students to really learn about the world that they will inherit, it's extremely important for them to be around people who are different from themselves and have different life experiences. So, that's really the judgment.

PHILLIPS: Well, I can just imagine what it's like for you to be at a cocktail party or a function and you have students and others coming up to you, saying, OK, explain to me, Mr. President, how do you justify that argument, the argument that you hear so much, surrounded around this issue about, OK, I'm a white student and I'm qualified and I'm getting turned down because a lesser-qualified minority is getting my spot? How do you respond? I'm sure you get that constantly.

BOLLINGER: Again, it's very important to realize that the overwhelming amount of what's taken into account in admissions has to do with very, very common academic criteria like grade point average, the difficulty of the curriculum that you've taken and standardized test score performance. So, really what is primarily looked at is how well you've done as a student.

But we also take into account a lot of other factors. We want people who have immigrated to the United States and perhaps had not quite the grade point averages as other students, but really has performed with incredible talent and drive and can take advantage of an education.

That's just one among many examples of things that really should play in the final decision about who gets admitted. And it really is a mistake and it's not really fair to take one of those considerations in this case -- race or ethnicity -- and to single that out as the reason why one didn't get in and other students did. So, it's very, very important to think comprehensively about admissions policies on our campuses.

PHILLIPS: And finally, I just have to ask you, how is today's ruling going to affect your university, Columbia University, and others?

BOLLINGER: This was a great victory, really, for higher education, and the reason is because the fundamental principle was upheld. The majority of the court has now said, really with great confidence and great clarity, that race can be considered in order to get an integrated student body. And so, Columbia, which has a long history of having an outstanding and diverse student body, will be able to continue doing that, as will other selective universities throughout the United States.

PHILLIPS: President Lee Bollinger, we appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us today.

BOLLINGER: Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





Bollinger>