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Look at Air Power, Weapons Used in Mosul Assault

Aired July 23, 2003 - 14:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: So let's talk a little bit about the military raid that was discussed and briefed by the folks on the ground there in Baghdad earlier today. Joining us to analyze how it went down by U.S. accounts fairly well and without a hitch, our military analyst retired Major General Don Shepperd, formerly of the Air Force, joining us from sunny Arizona. Good to see you.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: In a word it seems like it was textbook.

SHEPPERD: Yes, it was. It is kind of standard doctrine, if you will. First of all you gather the intelligence, decide to act on it. You get a plan together, much of which is prerehearsed and standard.

Then you assemble the forces, move them to the area, you surround the area and then you execute you plan and react to what happens in the plan. This was all done in accordance with rules of engagements that are established before you go to the area. And also you check with the chain of command when things pop up that you aren't expecting, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Let's do a quick little orientation for people so they know exactly what we're talking about. Mosul 200 plus miles northwest of Baghdad. Let's zoom in on Mosul. That and in of itself is kind of an interesting place inasmuch as it is primarily Kurdish country.

Nevertheless, as you were telling me a little while ago there are a couple of Arab enclaves there as we move toward the northeast portion of the city. Tell us about that.

SHEPPERD: Yes, basically, this is not the Sunni Triangle. The northern area of the country is heavily Kurdish up in that particular area. But this area of Mosul, is the northern part of Mosul, an area called -- if I'm pronouncing correctly -- Falla (ph) or Fallah (ph). It's the Arab neighborhood of Mosul. And They have gained great comfort of being protected by the Saddam regime against any incursion, their property rights by the Kurds. And also just their basic security. So there's a lot of sympathy for Saddam in this particular area of the city, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Right up in this area. We're going to try to get some better imagery of it.

Now let's walk through an animation that we put together long while ago. Sort of a generic template, if you will. And there are some things that are exceptions to what we saw yesterday. First, as we show you this, we're showing Apache helicopters. In this case they were using the Kiowa -- actually, yes, those are Apaches. The Kiowa, which is a much lighter armored -- excuse me, with lighter armorments. The point there is that the Apache has too much fire power?

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed. The concerns here are for, one, you want the people -- you give chance to surrender, which was done. And then when you want to fire you have collateral damage considerations for the houses around and, of course, if possible, not kill the people.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... worth pointing out that in this case it's right across the street from a mosque, as was depicted in this kind of boilerplate animation. Probably no coincidence that they were hiding out beside a mosque?

SHEPPERD: No coincidence at all. You've got to be very careful about that in this area.

Now the Apache carries the Hellfire missiles. That's almost like a 1,000 pound bomb when it's fired. The Humvees and Crew Serve Weapons that can fire TOWs, the Kiowa Warrior can fire 2.75 inch rockets were evidently used here. And of course you've got the guns on all of the Humvees, the Bradleys, the APCs, Armored Personnel Carriers that were used here. So kind of a classic engagement without using real, real heavy weapons. Just what's necessary to destroy what's in there, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So Kiowa, briefly, it's the military version of a Bell Jet Ranger, if you're familiar at all with those civilian helicopters. It has a pod on the top which allows them to designate with lasers and so forth infrared targets. Has a 50-caliber machine gun which might have been employed in this case, correct?

SHEPPERD: Correct. The TOW missiles are fired from the ground, basically, not from the helicopters here. The rockets would be fired from the helicopters. But, again, this was kind of a light weapons assault even though there was a lot of damage done to the facility. And there was tactical air power available overhead had they wanted bombs.

O'BRIEN: TOW standing for "tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided." That's a little bit of fudging there on the acronym. Range of about two miles, been around forever. There are about a half million of them all over the world. You get the sense they went in with the anticipation of using light weapons and then sort of had to reach for other tools in the toolbox here?

SHEPPERD: Yes, appears they had to escalate. Again they wanted them to surrender, but this was a heavily-fortified -- evidently very heavy concrete girders. Also bulletproof glass up there. So it was fortress as well as a house. And it appears that they did a very, very good job in doing what they had to do.

O'BRIEN: Don Shepperd, are we likely to see more of this kind of assault and is this something that's been going on with less fanfare in the recent weeks as the U.S. attempts to find these deck of cards targets?

SHEPPERD: Yes and no. They're being very careful because they get hundreds of reports a day, many of which are not true or falsely planted by intent, by Saddam loyalists. And so they're having to be very careful to decide what to act on. They go in and again they try to knock on the door, get the people to sure render and attack, if necessary.

So this has been going on. I predict there will be more attacks. It's not over by any mean just because these two bad actors are dead. Even if Saddam's dead the attacks will go on for a period of time until security slowly spread across the country, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, good points to remember. Major General Don Shepperd, you always help me understand it better. I appreciate it. Always good to have you with us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired July 23, 2003 - 14:09   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: So let's talk a little bit about the military raid that was discussed and briefed by the folks on the ground there in Baghdad earlier today. Joining us to analyze how it went down by U.S. accounts fairly well and without a hitch, our military analyst retired Major General Don Shepperd, formerly of the Air Force, joining us from sunny Arizona. Good to see you.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: In a word it seems like it was textbook.

SHEPPERD: Yes, it was. It is kind of standard doctrine, if you will. First of all you gather the intelligence, decide to act on it. You get a plan together, much of which is prerehearsed and standard.

Then you assemble the forces, move them to the area, you surround the area and then you execute you plan and react to what happens in the plan. This was all done in accordance with rules of engagements that are established before you go to the area. And also you check with the chain of command when things pop up that you aren't expecting, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Let's do a quick little orientation for people so they know exactly what we're talking about. Mosul 200 plus miles northwest of Baghdad. Let's zoom in on Mosul. That and in of itself is kind of an interesting place inasmuch as it is primarily Kurdish country.

Nevertheless, as you were telling me a little while ago there are a couple of Arab enclaves there as we move toward the northeast portion of the city. Tell us about that.

SHEPPERD: Yes, basically, this is not the Sunni Triangle. The northern area of the country is heavily Kurdish up in that particular area. But this area of Mosul, is the northern part of Mosul, an area called -- if I'm pronouncing correctly -- Falla (ph) or Fallah (ph). It's the Arab neighborhood of Mosul. And They have gained great comfort of being protected by the Saddam regime against any incursion, their property rights by the Kurds. And also just their basic security. So there's a lot of sympathy for Saddam in this particular area of the city, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Right up in this area. We're going to try to get some better imagery of it.

Now let's walk through an animation that we put together long while ago. Sort of a generic template, if you will. And there are some things that are exceptions to what we saw yesterday. First, as we show you this, we're showing Apache helicopters. In this case they were using the Kiowa -- actually, yes, those are Apaches. The Kiowa, which is a much lighter armored -- excuse me, with lighter armorments. The point there is that the Apache has too much fire power?

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed. The concerns here are for, one, you want the people -- you give chance to surrender, which was done. And then when you want to fire you have collateral damage considerations for the houses around and, of course, if possible, not kill the people.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... worth pointing out that in this case it's right across the street from a mosque, as was depicted in this kind of boilerplate animation. Probably no coincidence that they were hiding out beside a mosque?

SHEPPERD: No coincidence at all. You've got to be very careful about that in this area.

Now the Apache carries the Hellfire missiles. That's almost like a 1,000 pound bomb when it's fired. The Humvees and Crew Serve Weapons that can fire TOWs, the Kiowa Warrior can fire 2.75 inch rockets were evidently used here. And of course you've got the guns on all of the Humvees, the Bradleys, the APCs, Armored Personnel Carriers that were used here. So kind of a classic engagement without using real, real heavy weapons. Just what's necessary to destroy what's in there, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So Kiowa, briefly, it's the military version of a Bell Jet Ranger, if you're familiar at all with those civilian helicopters. It has a pod on the top which allows them to designate with lasers and so forth infrared targets. Has a 50-caliber machine gun which might have been employed in this case, correct?

SHEPPERD: Correct. The TOW missiles are fired from the ground, basically, not from the helicopters here. The rockets would be fired from the helicopters. But, again, this was kind of a light weapons assault even though there was a lot of damage done to the facility. And there was tactical air power available overhead had they wanted bombs.

O'BRIEN: TOW standing for "tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided." That's a little bit of fudging there on the acronym. Range of about two miles, been around forever. There are about a half million of them all over the world. You get the sense they went in with the anticipation of using light weapons and then sort of had to reach for other tools in the toolbox here?

SHEPPERD: Yes, appears they had to escalate. Again they wanted them to surrender, but this was a heavily-fortified -- evidently very heavy concrete girders. Also bulletproof glass up there. So it was fortress as well as a house. And it appears that they did a very, very good job in doing what they had to do.

O'BRIEN: Don Shepperd, are we likely to see more of this kind of assault and is this something that's been going on with less fanfare in the recent weeks as the U.S. attempts to find these deck of cards targets?

SHEPPERD: Yes and no. They're being very careful because they get hundreds of reports a day, many of which are not true or falsely planted by intent, by Saddam loyalists. And so they're having to be very careful to decide what to act on. They go in and again they try to knock on the door, get the people to sure render and attack, if necessary.

So this has been going on. I predict there will be more attacks. It's not over by any mean just because these two bad actors are dead. Even if Saddam's dead the attacks will go on for a period of time until security slowly spread across the country, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, good points to remember. Major General Don Shepperd, you always help me understand it better. I appreciate it. Always good to have you with us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com