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Live From...
Interview With Andrew Marshall
Aired July 25, 2003 - 13:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Anyone who has ever had a nightmare knows what it's like. It's excruciatingly hard to know for sure when it's over. And so it seems in Iraq, where a lot of folks seem to need a lot of convincing that two feared sons of Saddam Hussein are, in fact, dead. And so for the second day in a row, the United States issued what it says is certain proof that Uday and Qusay will never haunt the country again.
CNN's Nic Robertson standing by in Baghdad to show us what the Iraqis are being shown today. He joins us live now. Hello, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well the coalition here decided that they needed to provide more credible information, credible pictures to the Iraqi people to help convince them that Uday and Qusay were dead.
Now we've talked to number of people today. The majority do appear to accept that Uday and Qusay are dead, saying that we should move on. Some saying they should have been bought trial so that we can judge them for everything they did wrong.
But there is (AUDIO GAP) who refuse to believe what they're seeing on television. I'm joined now by Andrew Marshall, one of a tiny group of reporters who were able to go to the morgue today and see the bodies of Uday and Qusay.
Andrew, just talk us through what you able to see, how it looked to you.
ANDREW MARSHALL, REUTERS CORRESPONDENT: Well they took us to a small tent in Baghdad Airport, where the two bodies were laid out on two metal trolleys. They were naked apart from a small cloth that covered their midsections. And certainly, the faces looked like Uday and Qusay, much more so than the pictures that we saw yesterday which were released.
But this could be a problem because what's happened is that overnight, U.S. officials have retouched the faces to make them look more like the two men did when they were alive. Now they say this is normal practice, it's not any attempt at a cover up. But the Iraqis who do smell some kind of conspiracy, that's going to give them ammunition to say these aren't the real bodies.
ROBERTSON: What have they actually done to the faces when you say retouch? What have they done?
MARSHALL: Well Uday, for example, in the photographs we saw yesterday, he had a large wound to the center of his face. It was covered in blood. Today, that wound had been repaired. His face looked calm and peaceful, and certainly waxy. Almost like bodies of Lenin for example you see in tombs which have been on display for years.
Qusay had a full bread when he was caught in Mosul. That's been has shaved off so he just has mustache. So he looks much more like he did in familiar photographs we've all seen of him.
So the two of them look different than the photos we've seen yesterday. They look similar to the photographs we know of them when they were alive. But for some Iraqis, that may lead them to think there's some kind of conspiracy.
ROBERTSON: Is there any doubt in your mind who they are?
MARSHALL: I think -- the U.S. officials I spoke to said that visual identification is actually the least important method. They're relying on dental records, on medical records. They showed us a metal plate had been remove from Uday's left leg that had the same serial number on it as a plate that according medical records was put in when there was a failed assassination attempt on him. They're also doing DNA tests which can prove they were brothers.
So they say if you all this evidence together it proves that they're dead. The visual identification helps but they say it's the least important. And you know people shouldn't rely on that alone. Many Iraqis, for them, that's the most important thing. They want to see the bodies.
ROBERTSON: Andrew, thank you very much indeed.
MARSHALL: Thank you.
ROBERTSON: Well the coalition still trying then to convince many Iraqis. I think that the Coalition Provisional Authority headquarters, Miles, there is acceptance they're not going to be able to convince everyone here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 25, 2003 - 13:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Anyone who has ever had a nightmare knows what it's like. It's excruciatingly hard to know for sure when it's over. And so it seems in Iraq, where a lot of folks seem to need a lot of convincing that two feared sons of Saddam Hussein are, in fact, dead. And so for the second day in a row, the United States issued what it says is certain proof that Uday and Qusay will never haunt the country again.
CNN's Nic Robertson standing by in Baghdad to show us what the Iraqis are being shown today. He joins us live now. Hello, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. Well the coalition here decided that they needed to provide more credible information, credible pictures to the Iraqi people to help convince them that Uday and Qusay were dead.
Now we've talked to number of people today. The majority do appear to accept that Uday and Qusay are dead, saying that we should move on. Some saying they should have been bought trial so that we can judge them for everything they did wrong.
But there is (AUDIO GAP) who refuse to believe what they're seeing on television. I'm joined now by Andrew Marshall, one of a tiny group of reporters who were able to go to the morgue today and see the bodies of Uday and Qusay.
Andrew, just talk us through what you able to see, how it looked to you.
ANDREW MARSHALL, REUTERS CORRESPONDENT: Well they took us to a small tent in Baghdad Airport, where the two bodies were laid out on two metal trolleys. They were naked apart from a small cloth that covered their midsections. And certainly, the faces looked like Uday and Qusay, much more so than the pictures that we saw yesterday which were released.
But this could be a problem because what's happened is that overnight, U.S. officials have retouched the faces to make them look more like the two men did when they were alive. Now they say this is normal practice, it's not any attempt at a cover up. But the Iraqis who do smell some kind of conspiracy, that's going to give them ammunition to say these aren't the real bodies.
ROBERTSON: What have they actually done to the faces when you say retouch? What have they done?
MARSHALL: Well Uday, for example, in the photographs we saw yesterday, he had a large wound to the center of his face. It was covered in blood. Today, that wound had been repaired. His face looked calm and peaceful, and certainly waxy. Almost like bodies of Lenin for example you see in tombs which have been on display for years.
Qusay had a full bread when he was caught in Mosul. That's been has shaved off so he just has mustache. So he looks much more like he did in familiar photographs we've all seen of him.
So the two of them look different than the photos we've seen yesterday. They look similar to the photographs we know of them when they were alive. But for some Iraqis, that may lead them to think there's some kind of conspiracy.
ROBERTSON: Is there any doubt in your mind who they are?
MARSHALL: I think -- the U.S. officials I spoke to said that visual identification is actually the least important method. They're relying on dental records, on medical records. They showed us a metal plate had been remove from Uday's left leg that had the same serial number on it as a plate that according medical records was put in when there was a failed assassination attempt on him. They're also doing DNA tests which can prove they were brothers.
So they say if you all this evidence together it proves that they're dead. The visual identification helps but they say it's the least important. And you know people shouldn't rely on that alone. Many Iraqis, for them, that's the most important thing. They want to see the bodies.
ROBERTSON: Andrew, thank you very much indeed.
MARSHALL: Thank you.
ROBERTSON: Well the coalition still trying then to convince many Iraqis. I think that the Coalition Provisional Authority headquarters, Miles, there is acceptance they're not going to be able to convince everyone here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
