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Will the New Gay High School do More Harm Than Good?

Aired July 29, 2003 - 15:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Will New York's gay high school become a national model and should it? Joining me now to discuss that other gay issues Alan Amberg, president of Diverse Communications, he's here with us in Atlanta. And Robert Knight who's with Concerned Women for America, he joins us from Washington, D.C. Bob, good to see you also.
Alan, let's start with you and your reaction to the high school. Is this a solution or a Band Aid solution, rather, to a bigger problem here?

ALAN AMBERG, PRESIDENT, DIVERSE COMMUNICATIONS: Well, it's not a new situation. The Harvey Mill School's been around since 1984. And the reason for it is right now gay kids do get special privileges in school. They get institutionally beaten up, sometimes by the administration.

In the state of Utah a few years back we had a situation where rather than letting a gay social group meet in one high school, they shut down extra curricular activities over the entire state because they couldn't win that one in court. That's special privileges for you.

Also, we know that the studies show that harassment, verbal and physical against gay youth -- many of the runaways on the street that you find, adolescents often are running away from home, from social situations where they get terribly harassed. We see large percentages of homeless youth in New York and Chicago who are identified as gay, bisexual or transgender.

So, yes, having a safe space for at least the short terms seems like a way to go.

PHILLIPS: Robert, is this safe space or is this isolation?

ROBERT KNIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Well it's social engineering. As another gentlemen said, your heart has to go out to these poor kids, the ones that are stigmatized by their peers.

But the real failure is the New York City school system. All students should be safe walking down the halls of the New York City schools. They shouldn't take the kid who are picked out and placing them in isolation, they should be kicking the bullies out. Let's place them in isolation.

The other thing is why would you take kid with a sexual problem, put them all together and then affirm that sexual problem when you know it costing lives?

AMBERG: Excuse me. Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: ... HIV is raging among young homosexual men. And it's gone up for three straight years now. And I have to think that the constant promotion of homosexuality is costing lives. And this is more evidence of it.

PHILLIPS: Alan?

AMBERG: Bob, also look at teen pregnancy. HIV is a heterosexual disease across most of the world. It's a problem of teenagers in general. Right now we have a system, a marketplace that uses sex to sell...

KNIGHT: Not HIV. No, no. You're talking in America about largely a gay disease and also for drug users. And health officials have said and read it in this the morning papers...

AMBERG: Excuse me, I'm at that conference right now in Atlanta.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Well let's get back to the issue of the high school. I mean do kids really understand, Robert, do kids really understand, you know, their sexual -- let me ask you, Alan, their sexuality at age 14, 13?

AMBERG: Sure. Oh come on. Boys at 12 and 13 are already starting to date. Their hormones are starting to rage. And they're starting to get a good idea of who they're aiming it towards.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: And why would you affirm it when you know what takes the toll it takes medically on these poor kids?

AMBERG: Well what takes the tool, Robert, if you look at the studies, is the loneliness and the isolation that's promoted by people like you. You want these kids to be isolated. You're out there telling them that they're broken, they're damaged and they deserve to be by themselves forever instead of being in healthy...

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: Yes you are, I grew up with it. I know what your groups promote.

KNIGHT: I know what your group promotes and I don't think any parent would want to foist it on their child.

AMBERG: Excuse me. My groups -- and I live in a community where the schools are perfectly comfortable with students growing up and having healthy interactions, healthy friends, and, yes, sometimes healthy dating relationships.

KNIGHT: That's not healthy.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Let's get into point two, tolerance. Let's talk about tolerance, OK? We've got a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. Here are the numbers. Civil unions for homosexual couples, in May 49 percent favor, 49 percent oppose. Now 40 percent favor, 57 percent oppose.

Another CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal? In May 60 percent, now 48 percent. The numbers are going down. What's happening here? I thought with all the changes going on from Supreme Court to these gay-related shows to weddings becoming more public and, in some places, legal. Why are these numbers going down, Alan?

AMBERG: Well, first of all, you know yesterday "USA Today" said we were up. "The New York Times" today says that we're better than ever. "USA Today" says that we're down. I mean, this is a normal variant of human life. Are you going to take a poll to find out whether I have the right to be left handed?

Most of corporate America and most of the countries -- the civilized, developed countries around the world, have already figured out that this is not a problem and maybe Mr. Knight needs to go get checked out why he's so afraid of us.

PHILLIPS: Robert, the numbers do send out mixed signals. You bring up a good point too, Alan, about all the newspapers. You know it does seem like a different take everyday. Robert, what do you think?

KNIGHT: Well, actually, no, I think it's actually gone in favor of tolerating homosexuality steadily over the years and this is the first time there's been a substantial drop. Among black Americans it dropped 22 points.

And I think the real reason is we've seen gay news stories, big ones. The Texas -- the U.S. Supreme Court overturning the Texas sodomy law. The Ontario gay marriage decision. These new gay TV shows like "Boy Meets Boy." It's in people's faces every day, and I think people are finally saying, You know, I'm tolerant, I really don't mind what guys are doing down the street as long as they don't bother me.

AMBERG: Except you're willing to legislate against us.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And these shows got huge ratings. Robert, you bring up the shows, though. They do have tremendous ratings. I mean is it morbid curiosity, as I've read this is what you have had to say? Or is this breaking stereotypes and people are becoming more tolerant?

KNIGHT: Well I think it's morbid curiosity in some respects. But because the polls are showing that people are now having their fill of it. But I think other things are going on, too. People are starting to realize there's a price to be paid for having sex outside marriage, and I'm talking real marriage, and it affects individuals, families, and communities.

AMBERG: Which real marriages did you mean? Did you mean Henry Hyde's when he stepped out on his wife? Or Bob Barr of Georgia who has married three times? Or Newt Gingrich who walked out on his wife when she was in the hospital with cancer? Is that the real marriage you mean?

KNIGHT: OK, often when people try to promote wrongdoing, they point to other wrongdoing. You know this is the Bill Clinton-type defense. other people are doing bad things, so what the big deal? That's a very weak defense.

AMBERG: Excuse me, you're talking about...

KNIGHT: How about it's all wrong? OK? The people who are chaste until marriage and have fidelity to their partners within marriage are the backbone of this country and we want to be...

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: And this traditional idea of marriage that your trying to promote, let's remember what it was. It was a property transfer of a woman from her father to her husband. Legally, a woman in the United States until recently, if she had property, if she had credit, she legally became the property of her husband.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: ... expect you to understand what marriage is really all about since you probably aren't oriented in that direction.

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: Excuse me, I'm married. I'm married to another man. I was married both civilly and in front of my family...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: This is exactly why we're talking about this, gentlemen. Obviously gay issues, it's a hot topic and we will continue to talk about it. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there. I want to thank you very much.

AMBERG: Thank you.

KNIGHT: Thank you for having us.

PHILLIPS: You bet. It was a pleasure and we'll continue to talk about it, I can promise you that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired July 29, 2003 - 15:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Will New York's gay high school become a national model and should it? Joining me now to discuss that other gay issues Alan Amberg, president of Diverse Communications, he's here with us in Atlanta. And Robert Knight who's with Concerned Women for America, he joins us from Washington, D.C. Bob, good to see you also.
Alan, let's start with you and your reaction to the high school. Is this a solution or a Band Aid solution, rather, to a bigger problem here?

ALAN AMBERG, PRESIDENT, DIVERSE COMMUNICATIONS: Well, it's not a new situation. The Harvey Mill School's been around since 1984. And the reason for it is right now gay kids do get special privileges in school. They get institutionally beaten up, sometimes by the administration.

In the state of Utah a few years back we had a situation where rather than letting a gay social group meet in one high school, they shut down extra curricular activities over the entire state because they couldn't win that one in court. That's special privileges for you.

Also, we know that the studies show that harassment, verbal and physical against gay youth -- many of the runaways on the street that you find, adolescents often are running away from home, from social situations where they get terribly harassed. We see large percentages of homeless youth in New York and Chicago who are identified as gay, bisexual or transgender.

So, yes, having a safe space for at least the short terms seems like a way to go.

PHILLIPS: Robert, is this safe space or is this isolation?

ROBERT KNIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Well it's social engineering. As another gentlemen said, your heart has to go out to these poor kids, the ones that are stigmatized by their peers.

But the real failure is the New York City school system. All students should be safe walking down the halls of the New York City schools. They shouldn't take the kid who are picked out and placing them in isolation, they should be kicking the bullies out. Let's place them in isolation.

The other thing is why would you take kid with a sexual problem, put them all together and then affirm that sexual problem when you know it costing lives?

AMBERG: Excuse me. Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: ... HIV is raging among young homosexual men. And it's gone up for three straight years now. And I have to think that the constant promotion of homosexuality is costing lives. And this is more evidence of it.

PHILLIPS: Alan?

AMBERG: Bob, also look at teen pregnancy. HIV is a heterosexual disease across most of the world. It's a problem of teenagers in general. Right now we have a system, a marketplace that uses sex to sell...

KNIGHT: Not HIV. No, no. You're talking in America about largely a gay disease and also for drug users. And health officials have said and read it in this the morning papers...

AMBERG: Excuse me, I'm at that conference right now in Atlanta.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Well let's get back to the issue of the high school. I mean do kids really understand, Robert, do kids really understand, you know, their sexual -- let me ask you, Alan, their sexuality at age 14, 13?

AMBERG: Sure. Oh come on. Boys at 12 and 13 are already starting to date. Their hormones are starting to rage. And they're starting to get a good idea of who they're aiming it towards.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: And why would you affirm it when you know what takes the toll it takes medically on these poor kids?

AMBERG: Well what takes the tool, Robert, if you look at the studies, is the loneliness and the isolation that's promoted by people like you. You want these kids to be isolated. You're out there telling them that they're broken, they're damaged and they deserve to be by themselves forever instead of being in healthy...

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: Yes you are, I grew up with it. I know what your groups promote.

KNIGHT: I know what your group promotes and I don't think any parent would want to foist it on their child.

AMBERG: Excuse me. My groups -- and I live in a community where the schools are perfectly comfortable with students growing up and having healthy interactions, healthy friends, and, yes, sometimes healthy dating relationships.

KNIGHT: That's not healthy.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Let's get into point two, tolerance. Let's talk about tolerance, OK? We've got a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. Here are the numbers. Civil unions for homosexual couples, in May 49 percent favor, 49 percent oppose. Now 40 percent favor, 57 percent oppose.

Another CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal? In May 60 percent, now 48 percent. The numbers are going down. What's happening here? I thought with all the changes going on from Supreme Court to these gay-related shows to weddings becoming more public and, in some places, legal. Why are these numbers going down, Alan?

AMBERG: Well, first of all, you know yesterday "USA Today" said we were up. "The New York Times" today says that we're better than ever. "USA Today" says that we're down. I mean, this is a normal variant of human life. Are you going to take a poll to find out whether I have the right to be left handed?

Most of corporate America and most of the countries -- the civilized, developed countries around the world, have already figured out that this is not a problem and maybe Mr. Knight needs to go get checked out why he's so afraid of us.

PHILLIPS: Robert, the numbers do send out mixed signals. You bring up a good point too, Alan, about all the newspapers. You know it does seem like a different take everyday. Robert, what do you think?

KNIGHT: Well, actually, no, I think it's actually gone in favor of tolerating homosexuality steadily over the years and this is the first time there's been a substantial drop. Among black Americans it dropped 22 points.

And I think the real reason is we've seen gay news stories, big ones. The Texas -- the U.S. Supreme Court overturning the Texas sodomy law. The Ontario gay marriage decision. These new gay TV shows like "Boy Meets Boy." It's in people's faces every day, and I think people are finally saying, You know, I'm tolerant, I really don't mind what guys are doing down the street as long as they don't bother me.

AMBERG: Except you're willing to legislate against us.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And these shows got huge ratings. Robert, you bring up the shows, though. They do have tremendous ratings. I mean is it morbid curiosity, as I've read this is what you have had to say? Or is this breaking stereotypes and people are becoming more tolerant?

KNIGHT: Well I think it's morbid curiosity in some respects. But because the polls are showing that people are now having their fill of it. But I think other things are going on, too. People are starting to realize there's a price to be paid for having sex outside marriage, and I'm talking real marriage, and it affects individuals, families, and communities.

AMBERG: Which real marriages did you mean? Did you mean Henry Hyde's when he stepped out on his wife? Or Bob Barr of Georgia who has married three times? Or Newt Gingrich who walked out on his wife when she was in the hospital with cancer? Is that the real marriage you mean?

KNIGHT: OK, often when people try to promote wrongdoing, they point to other wrongdoing. You know this is the Bill Clinton-type defense. other people are doing bad things, so what the big deal? That's a very weak defense.

AMBERG: Excuse me, you're talking about...

KNIGHT: How about it's all wrong? OK? The people who are chaste until marriage and have fidelity to their partners within marriage are the backbone of this country and we want to be...

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: And this traditional idea of marriage that your trying to promote, let's remember what it was. It was a property transfer of a woman from her father to her husband. Legally, a woman in the United States until recently, if she had property, if she had credit, she legally became the property of her husband.

(CROSSTALK)

KNIGHT: ... expect you to understand what marriage is really all about since you probably aren't oriented in that direction.

(CROSSTALK)

AMBERG: Excuse me, I'm married. I'm married to another man. I was married both civilly and in front of my family...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: This is exactly why we're talking about this, gentlemen. Obviously gay issues, it's a hot topic and we will continue to talk about it. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there. I want to thank you very much.

AMBERG: Thank you.

KNIGHT: Thank you for having us.

PHILLIPS: You bet. It was a pleasure and we'll continue to talk about it, I can promise you that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com