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Interview With Israeli Ambassador to United Nations

Aired July 29, 2003 - 15:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also urge the prime minister to carefully consider all the consequences of Israel's actions as we move forward on the road to peace.

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The security fence will continue to be built, with every effort to minimize the infringement on the daily life of the Palestinian population.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: As we reported earlier, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is in Washington today for high-level talks aimed at removing obstacles to peace in the Middle East.

With us now: Israel's ambassador to the U.N., Dan Gillerman. He is in New York with us.

Thank you so much, Mr. Ambassador.

DAN GILLERMAN, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Thank you. Good afternoon.

CROWLEY: Good afternoon.

I want to start out with the issue of this fence. It seems very clear to me that your prime minister said no to the president today when asked -- when and if he were asked to stop building that fence.

GILLERMAN: I don't think the president actually has to stop building the fence.

I think what the president asked was to reconsider the line along which the fence is being built. And I think it's very important to understand that we are talking about a fence. Anybody who mentions the word wall and is maybe trying to make an analogy with the Berlin Wall has to understand that that wall actually separated between Germans. It separated between people of one country and prevented people from escaping to freedom.

The fence we're talking about is a security fence, the sole purpose of which is to separate between us and the Palestinians and to prevent suicide bombers from carrying out their horrible acts and murdering Israelis. It's the responsibility of Israel to protect its citizens, its children and its people from these horrible acts. And many Israelis feel that fence should have been built many years ago, because the one we have in Gaza has prevented any suicide attacks from Gaza, whereas the fact that we had no fence in the West Bank brought about hundreds of suicide bombings and the death of hundreds of people.

So that fence is a security fence. It is not a political border. It does not create any new reality on the ground. And I'm very glad that the president did not push for the stopping of the fence, but rather called upon the prime minister to reconsider the continued line of the fence, which I believe the prime minister will do.

CROWLEY: Well, then let me ask you. In the Middle East, as in everywhere in politics and in war, symbolism means a lot. And to Palestinians, the symbol of that fence is Israel marking its territory. Are you saying that that is not a marking of Israel's territory, the territory it wants, and that the prime minister will move that fence?

GILLERMAN: It is certainly not the marking of any territory.

This is purely a security fence. As I said before, we have a fence, we've had a fence with Gaza for many years. As a result of that, we did not have one single suicide bomber cross over to Gaza into Israel. The fence, which we started building long before the present talks with the Palestinians started, was a fence that should have been built many years ago. Had it been built that many years ago, we could have prevented many, many deaths. It is not marking a territory. It is not creating a border.

It is not a political border. It is purely a defensive measure. It is a security fence. And once these negotiations lead to a final status settlement and the border between us and a Palestinian state, if it does emerge, is created, that border will be the international border. And whatever fence there is will be removed, hopefully, also, because there will be no need for it, because we will have no more terror and no more bloodshed.

CROWLEY: As far as is Israel is concerned, when it comes to the release of Palestinian prisoners, when it comes to this fence, when it comes to other things that the Palestinians would like to see, are you done with that now, until, as the prime minister said today, the terrorism stops? Or are there other moves that we can expect Israel to make to show good faith?

GILLERMAN: Israel has made and is continuing to make very significant moves, including unilateral gestures and moves which are not stipulated and are not even requested or demanded by the road map.

The road map does not talk about the release of prisoners. Israel has unilaterally decided -- and it was a very tough decision for the prime minister, both security-wise and politically -- to release a very large number of prisoners. Israel has evacuated its forces from Bethlehem and from Gaza. Israel has dismantled roadblocks. Israel has increased dramatically the number of permits for Palestinians to work in Israel. And Israel is continuing all the time to make and to create measures which will bolster the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, will prove to his people that they have made the right choice by choosing a new prime minister, and creating a situation whereby the trust between our two people, which has been so badly shuttered by the horrible acts of terror and suicide bombings perpetrated by the Palestinians, that trust, which is very difficult to rebuild, we're trying to rebuild today.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: Mr. Ambassador?

GILLERMAN: Yes.

CROWLEY: I'm sorry, I wonder if we can just leave it right there, that you will indeed continue to try to build the trust. I hope you will come on and talk with us at another time.

GILLERMAN: Thank you very much.

CROWLEY: Thank you so much, Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman. We appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired July 29, 2003 - 15:12   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also urge the prime minister to carefully consider all the consequences of Israel's actions as we move forward on the road to peace.

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The security fence will continue to be built, with every effort to minimize the infringement on the daily life of the Palestinian population.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: As we reported earlier, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is in Washington today for high-level talks aimed at removing obstacles to peace in the Middle East.

With us now: Israel's ambassador to the U.N., Dan Gillerman. He is in New York with us.

Thank you so much, Mr. Ambassador.

DAN GILLERMAN, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Thank you. Good afternoon.

CROWLEY: Good afternoon.

I want to start out with the issue of this fence. It seems very clear to me that your prime minister said no to the president today when asked -- when and if he were asked to stop building that fence.

GILLERMAN: I don't think the president actually has to stop building the fence.

I think what the president asked was to reconsider the line along which the fence is being built. And I think it's very important to understand that we are talking about a fence. Anybody who mentions the word wall and is maybe trying to make an analogy with the Berlin Wall has to understand that that wall actually separated between Germans. It separated between people of one country and prevented people from escaping to freedom.

The fence we're talking about is a security fence, the sole purpose of which is to separate between us and the Palestinians and to prevent suicide bombers from carrying out their horrible acts and murdering Israelis. It's the responsibility of Israel to protect its citizens, its children and its people from these horrible acts. And many Israelis feel that fence should have been built many years ago, because the one we have in Gaza has prevented any suicide attacks from Gaza, whereas the fact that we had no fence in the West Bank brought about hundreds of suicide bombings and the death of hundreds of people.

So that fence is a security fence. It is not a political border. It does not create any new reality on the ground. And I'm very glad that the president did not push for the stopping of the fence, but rather called upon the prime minister to reconsider the continued line of the fence, which I believe the prime minister will do.

CROWLEY: Well, then let me ask you. In the Middle East, as in everywhere in politics and in war, symbolism means a lot. And to Palestinians, the symbol of that fence is Israel marking its territory. Are you saying that that is not a marking of Israel's territory, the territory it wants, and that the prime minister will move that fence?

GILLERMAN: It is certainly not the marking of any territory.

This is purely a security fence. As I said before, we have a fence, we've had a fence with Gaza for many years. As a result of that, we did not have one single suicide bomber cross over to Gaza into Israel. The fence, which we started building long before the present talks with the Palestinians started, was a fence that should have been built many years ago. Had it been built that many years ago, we could have prevented many, many deaths. It is not marking a territory. It is not creating a border.

It is not a political border. It is purely a defensive measure. It is a security fence. And once these negotiations lead to a final status settlement and the border between us and a Palestinian state, if it does emerge, is created, that border will be the international border. And whatever fence there is will be removed, hopefully, also, because there will be no need for it, because we will have no more terror and no more bloodshed.

CROWLEY: As far as is Israel is concerned, when it comes to the release of Palestinian prisoners, when it comes to this fence, when it comes to other things that the Palestinians would like to see, are you done with that now, until, as the prime minister said today, the terrorism stops? Or are there other moves that we can expect Israel to make to show good faith?

GILLERMAN: Israel has made and is continuing to make very significant moves, including unilateral gestures and moves which are not stipulated and are not even requested or demanded by the road map.

The road map does not talk about the release of prisoners. Israel has unilaterally decided -- and it was a very tough decision for the prime minister, both security-wise and politically -- to release a very large number of prisoners. Israel has evacuated its forces from Bethlehem and from Gaza. Israel has dismantled roadblocks. Israel has increased dramatically the number of permits for Palestinians to work in Israel. And Israel is continuing all the time to make and to create measures which will bolster the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, will prove to his people that they have made the right choice by choosing a new prime minister, and creating a situation whereby the trust between our two people, which has been so badly shuttered by the horrible acts of terror and suicide bombings perpetrated by the Palestinians, that trust, which is very difficult to rebuild, we're trying to rebuild today.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: Mr. Ambassador?

GILLERMAN: Yes.

CROWLEY: I'm sorry, I wonder if we can just leave it right there, that you will indeed continue to try to build the trust. I hope you will come on and talk with us at another time.

GILLERMAN: Thank you very much.

CROWLEY: Thank you so much, Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman. We appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com