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Pentagon Believes Saddam May have Changed Appearance to Elude Capture
Aired July 31, 2003 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. commander in Iraq has tried to dampen speculation today that Saddam Hussein's capture may be imminent. His comments following President Bush's assertion at his news conference yesterday that U.S. forces are getting closer to the ousted leader every day.
At the Pentagon, CNN's Barbara Starr has learned officials believe Saddam may have changed his appearance. Barbara joins us now with more on that. So, Barbara, they are backtracking some?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, the hunt is on but they just don't have him yet. But we have learned, indeed, that there are now a series of six retouched photographs of Saddam Hussein being distributed to the troops that are looking for him.
Now, these photographs are very close held, not being released yet. These are photos done by the CIA to try and project what Saddam Hussein might look like after weeks on the run. You'll remember, when they found his sons, they had changed their appearance. So they think Saddam might have changed his.
Now, these photos are being given to members of the 4th Infantry Division, Task Force 20, the commandos looking for Saddam. And we are told that they reflect potential changes, things like a long beard, no mustache, and, of course, gray hair, because the pictures we've all seen of Saddam show him with very dark black hair. And there is at least a working assumption that that is dyed hair and he would not have been able to get his hair done, if you will, while he's been on the run.
So they want to show pictures of what they now think he may look like. And the reason, though, that the pictures are close-hold, that they're not being publicly distributed, is, they believe Saddam is constantly moving around, that he is using civilian vehicles to move around. So they want to keep these pictures close-hold and just give the troops a good idea of what to be on the lookout for.
They don't want Saddam to have any idea of what the U.S. thinks he might look like. And, as you say, earlier today in Baghdad, General Ricardo Sanchez, the chief commander there, had a press conference and talked a little bit more about this whole issue and tried to dampen some of the speculation that they're about to get him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. RICARDO SANCHEZ, COALITION GROUND TROOPS COMMANDER: I don't know where that's coming from.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: U.S. officials are saying it, some of them quite senior.
SANCHEZ: Yes, OK, U.S. officials, but, come on. Now, we would not be telling you that we're hours away from capturing Saddam or days away or anything like that. This is an intelligence-based operation. This is a very difficult, complex environment that we've been operating in.
And we continue to focus on this. And we're going to be successful. But for us to believe that we're a couple of hours away is -- it's probably some young, uninformed officials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, Judy, the trail, by all accounts, remains quite warm, but the top leadership still warning, they don't have him yet -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: So, Barbara, once again, how do they explain getting out there with these statements in the last few days that make it sound as if they are very close and then turning around now and saying, we're not sure?
STARR: Well, I think the issue really is, they want to try and keep public perception from getting too far running away with this.
The real view here, led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, as we've said in previous days here, his favorite saying is, we don't have him until we have him. And that's really the view here. They're trying to take a conservative approach. They certainly do have more intelligence, better intelligence, more tips. They're following up with an awful lot of leads. They're conducting a number of raids that they think are leading them towards him. They are picking up people that have been part of his support network.
They feel that he will now be moving towards dealing with people whose loyalty he is less sure of and that he will slip up. There's no question that the trail is really quite warm at the moment. But, clearly, they want to manage expectations and they don't want to give away any hints that may lead him able to slip through the cracks.
WOODRUFF: All right, Barbara Starr following all the threads of this story -- Barbara, thank you very much.
Well, meantime, another American soldier has died in Iraq. It happened today on a road leading out of Baghdad towards Iraq's International Airport. U.S. officials say a mine went off, destroying an armored personnel carrier. In addition to the dead American, three other soldiers were wounded, all of them from the Army's 1st Infantry Division.
At his briefing today in Baghdad, the U.S. commander, whom we just heard a moment ago, said the use of explosives by Iraqi insurgents is becoming more sophisticated.
Well, two widowed daughters of Saddam Hussein have left Iraq and are now, we are told, receiving official refuge in Jordan. This is the second time the daughters have fled to Jordan. The first time, they went with their husbands, who later were killed by the former regime after the families returned to Iraq.
CNN's Jane Arraf joins us by phone from the Jordanian capital of Amman.
Jane, how did this information come out?
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Judy, a Jordanian source close to the family tells us that the daughters contacted the Jordanian royal family and said they wanted to come and they had no choice but to say yes.
Now, as you pointed out, this is not the first time they've been given refuge here. Even by the Iraqi standards, by the standards of Saddam Hussein's family, these two women have had a retched last few years. Their husbands were killed. Now, their husbands came with them to Jordan in 1995, the most prominent of them, Hussein Kamel, a senior figure in the weapons program. He told all and thought that he would be welcomed with open arms.
But after telling his secrets, he really wasn't given anything here and was lured back to Iraq with the promise that he would are forgiven. Now, instead of being forgiven, the two men went back with their wives, Saddam's daughters, and the two men were killed. They were widowed. Now, the two sisters have had their brothers killed in a shoot-out with American forces, Saddam's eldest sons, Uday and Qusay, just a couple of weeks ago.
And the source close to the family says that they're in pretty bad shape. He says that they feel that they've been in jail, essentially under house arrest, for the past few years, ever since the death of their husbands. Now they've come to Jordan. The royal family is giving them refuge. It says that this is a humanitarian matter. And the government has said that it's supportive and proud that King Abdullah has taken this step, that there are no political connotations.
But, certainly, these daughters of Saddam Hussein, although they've not had contact with him likely recently, would certainly be an object of interest for American forces -- Judy.
(CROSSTALK)
WOODRUFF: Jane, that's what I'd like to ask you about. Are they being sought by U.S. forces? Is the United States government now trying to get in touch with them, to take them into custody, or what?
ARRAF: They're not being actively sought. They have not been on any of the lists that we know of, of Iraqis who are actively being sought by American forces for information. But, certainly, they would be able to shed some insights that may not be known that no one else would know, really, about their father. Now, the Jordanians have made clear, particularly the palace -- they have made clear that this is a humanitarian matter, that they have come seeking refuge and that is exactly what they're getting, that they will not be turned over to the Americans. There is no indication that the U.S. has asked for them to be turned over, no indication that this has been treated as much more than two women and their children.
They've come here with nine children, seven of them their own. The indications are that this is really being treated, at least for now, as a humanitarian matter, despite the fact that these are Saddam Hussein's two eldest daughters -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, CNN's Jane Arraf reporting for us by telephone from Amman, Jordan -- thank you, Jane.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Elude Capture>
Aired July 31, 2003 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. commander in Iraq has tried to dampen speculation today that Saddam Hussein's capture may be imminent. His comments following President Bush's assertion at his news conference yesterday that U.S. forces are getting closer to the ousted leader every day.
At the Pentagon, CNN's Barbara Starr has learned officials believe Saddam may have changed his appearance. Barbara joins us now with more on that. So, Barbara, they are backtracking some?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, the hunt is on but they just don't have him yet. But we have learned, indeed, that there are now a series of six retouched photographs of Saddam Hussein being distributed to the troops that are looking for him.
Now, these photographs are very close held, not being released yet. These are photos done by the CIA to try and project what Saddam Hussein might look like after weeks on the run. You'll remember, when they found his sons, they had changed their appearance. So they think Saddam might have changed his.
Now, these photos are being given to members of the 4th Infantry Division, Task Force 20, the commandos looking for Saddam. And we are told that they reflect potential changes, things like a long beard, no mustache, and, of course, gray hair, because the pictures we've all seen of Saddam show him with very dark black hair. And there is at least a working assumption that that is dyed hair and he would not have been able to get his hair done, if you will, while he's been on the run.
So they want to show pictures of what they now think he may look like. And the reason, though, that the pictures are close-hold, that they're not being publicly distributed, is, they believe Saddam is constantly moving around, that he is using civilian vehicles to move around. So they want to keep these pictures close-hold and just give the troops a good idea of what to be on the lookout for.
They don't want Saddam to have any idea of what the U.S. thinks he might look like. And, as you say, earlier today in Baghdad, General Ricardo Sanchez, the chief commander there, had a press conference and talked a little bit more about this whole issue and tried to dampen some of the speculation that they're about to get him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. RICARDO SANCHEZ, COALITION GROUND TROOPS COMMANDER: I don't know where that's coming from.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: U.S. officials are saying it, some of them quite senior.
SANCHEZ: Yes, OK, U.S. officials, but, come on. Now, we would not be telling you that we're hours away from capturing Saddam or days away or anything like that. This is an intelligence-based operation. This is a very difficult, complex environment that we've been operating in.
And we continue to focus on this. And we're going to be successful. But for us to believe that we're a couple of hours away is -- it's probably some young, uninformed officials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, Judy, the trail, by all accounts, remains quite warm, but the top leadership still warning, they don't have him yet -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: So, Barbara, once again, how do they explain getting out there with these statements in the last few days that make it sound as if they are very close and then turning around now and saying, we're not sure?
STARR: Well, I think the issue really is, they want to try and keep public perception from getting too far running away with this.
The real view here, led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, as we've said in previous days here, his favorite saying is, we don't have him until we have him. And that's really the view here. They're trying to take a conservative approach. They certainly do have more intelligence, better intelligence, more tips. They're following up with an awful lot of leads. They're conducting a number of raids that they think are leading them towards him. They are picking up people that have been part of his support network.
They feel that he will now be moving towards dealing with people whose loyalty he is less sure of and that he will slip up. There's no question that the trail is really quite warm at the moment. But, clearly, they want to manage expectations and they don't want to give away any hints that may lead him able to slip through the cracks.
WOODRUFF: All right, Barbara Starr following all the threads of this story -- Barbara, thank you very much.
Well, meantime, another American soldier has died in Iraq. It happened today on a road leading out of Baghdad towards Iraq's International Airport. U.S. officials say a mine went off, destroying an armored personnel carrier. In addition to the dead American, three other soldiers were wounded, all of them from the Army's 1st Infantry Division.
At his briefing today in Baghdad, the U.S. commander, whom we just heard a moment ago, said the use of explosives by Iraqi insurgents is becoming more sophisticated.
Well, two widowed daughters of Saddam Hussein have left Iraq and are now, we are told, receiving official refuge in Jordan. This is the second time the daughters have fled to Jordan. The first time, they went with their husbands, who later were killed by the former regime after the families returned to Iraq.
CNN's Jane Arraf joins us by phone from the Jordanian capital of Amman.
Jane, how did this information come out?
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Judy, a Jordanian source close to the family tells us that the daughters contacted the Jordanian royal family and said they wanted to come and they had no choice but to say yes.
Now, as you pointed out, this is not the first time they've been given refuge here. Even by the Iraqi standards, by the standards of Saddam Hussein's family, these two women have had a retched last few years. Their husbands were killed. Now, their husbands came with them to Jordan in 1995, the most prominent of them, Hussein Kamel, a senior figure in the weapons program. He told all and thought that he would be welcomed with open arms.
But after telling his secrets, he really wasn't given anything here and was lured back to Iraq with the promise that he would are forgiven. Now, instead of being forgiven, the two men went back with their wives, Saddam's daughters, and the two men were killed. They were widowed. Now, the two sisters have had their brothers killed in a shoot-out with American forces, Saddam's eldest sons, Uday and Qusay, just a couple of weeks ago.
And the source close to the family says that they're in pretty bad shape. He says that they feel that they've been in jail, essentially under house arrest, for the past few years, ever since the death of their husbands. Now they've come to Jordan. The royal family is giving them refuge. It says that this is a humanitarian matter. And the government has said that it's supportive and proud that King Abdullah has taken this step, that there are no political connotations.
But, certainly, these daughters of Saddam Hussein, although they've not had contact with him likely recently, would certainly be an object of interest for American forces -- Judy.
(CROSSTALK)
WOODRUFF: Jane, that's what I'd like to ask you about. Are they being sought by U.S. forces? Is the United States government now trying to get in touch with them, to take them into custody, or what?
ARRAF: They're not being actively sought. They have not been on any of the lists that we know of, of Iraqis who are actively being sought by American forces for information. But, certainly, they would be able to shed some insights that may not be known that no one else would know, really, about their father. Now, the Jordanians have made clear, particularly the palace -- they have made clear that this is a humanitarian matter, that they have come seeking refuge and that is exactly what they're getting, that they will not be turned over to the Americans. There is no indication that the U.S. has asked for them to be turned over, no indication that this has been treated as much more than two women and their children.
They've come here with nine children, seven of them their own. The indications are that this is really being treated, at least for now, as a humanitarian matter, despite the fact that these are Saddam Hussein's two eldest daughters -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: All right, CNN's Jane Arraf reporting for us by telephone from Amman, Jordan -- thank you, Jane.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Elude Capture>
