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Interview With Kwame Clement

Aired August 04, 2003 - 14:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Liberian President Charles Taylor is due to step down August 11 with a new president sworn in at midday. The national assembly meets Thursday to pick the new leader, but rebel forces aren't convinced that Taylor will give it up.
Joining us, someone with an insider's view of the crisis in Liberia, attorney Kwame Clement. He is a former Liberian news anchor, also. Kwame, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

KWAME CLEMENT, FRM. LIBERIAN NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: I'm curious, as an attorney, just quickly, if you could tell me, what kind of freedom did you have to carry out your duties as an attorney in Liberia? Did you carry on as an attorney there in Liberia, or was that just here in the states?

CLEMENT: No, here in the states, in Liberia I worked as a broadcast journalist. And obviously because we had a dictatorial government, Samuel Do, our military leader was in power then, I ran into frequent problems with the government. I was...

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

PHILLIPS: ... writer and criticizing Liberian government. How was he treated? Did you witness firsthand how freedom of speech just was not normalcy?

CLEMENT: Well, yes. There were episodes in Liberia when we have, you know, periods when journalists were free without suppression from the government. But particularly on the regime of Samuel Do. There wasn't press freedom in sense here. And journalism was a profession that many mothers discouraged their children from going into.

PHILLIPS: How many times has Charles Taylor actually said -- do you know how many times he's actually said, I will leave, I will leave Liberia?

CLEMENT: Probably for the umpteenth time now. I think, frankly, at the moment he's got no option. If he doesn't leave, he faces the prospects of arrest by forces that are now entering the country. If he leaves, he goes into exile in Nigeria. There's an indictment from the war crimes tribunal in Sierra Leone hanging over him. I understand as part of the deal to get him out is the indictment will not be lifted but Nigeria will not turn him over to the war crimes court in Sierra Leone. Anyway, he not be a free man in Nigeria, he will be a virtual -- under house arrest, not free to walk the streets. So if the compromise that we need for peace to return to Liberia is that he goes into exile in Nigeria, I welcome that.

PHILLIPS: So, kind of give me a feel. You know so much of the history. Is Charles Taylor a type, let's say, like Saddam Hussein who says, I'm going to go down a martyr, there's no way -- he's saying all this. He's saying he's going to leave. Do you really believe he will? Or is this a man that will fight to the end?

CLEMENT: It is possible that he may want to stick it out. I doubt if he will.

Even if he does stick it out in Liberia, I don't think he can pose any serious military challenge to the forces that are coming in for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't have popular support on the ground, there would be no network of people providing him aid and comfort, he will have no sanctuary in any of the neighboring countries -- Sierra Leone, Guinea, the Ivory Coast.

All of them have governments that are hostile to him. All of them have been through periods of instability. The French recently restored some semblance of normalcy in the Ivory Coast and the British did the same in Sierra Leone so they wouldn't want anyone to use their countries as bases to launch attacks into Liberia.

So he may run into the bush, but I don't think he can pose any serious military challenge to the peace keeping forces on the ground in Liberia.

PHILLIPS: Kwame, why do you think this is happening now? I mean this situation's been going on in Liberia for years and years. Is it because there's this war on terror that's taking place? What happened in Afghanistan? What happened in Iraq? It only make sense that this happen now?

CLEMENT: I think this confluence of certain factors explains what's happening now. On the one hand, you had the British and the French because they went into neighboring Sierra Leone and the Ivory Coast to bring some normalcy, wanted to tell all coups (ph) in the international community bring pressure to bear on Charles Taylor because they knew as long as he remains in power whatever gains they had made in Sierra Leone and the Ivory Coast could be jeopardized.

Second, I think given President Bush's recent trip to Africa as part of the campaign to win goodwill in Africa, he committed himself to solving the problem in Liberia, or at least putting U.S. troops on the ground and pressuring Taylor to leave.

And thirdly, rebel forces opposed to Mr. Taylor made some military gains and thus forced him to the bargaining table. So I think a confluence of those factors explains what's happening in the country at the moment.

PHILLIPS: So who steps in takes care of Liberia? Who runs Liberia? Are there any good candidates? And also, how do you deal with the rebels and the government forces?

CLEMENT: As I understand it, there are a group of Liberians, political leaders now meeting in the Accra, the capital of Ghana. They are trying to reach some compromise on an interim government that would fill the vacuum when Mr. Taylor leave.

But the plan at the moment is that the constitutional provision in the Liberian -- the provision in the Liberian constitution for cessation of power would come into place once he leaves on the 11th. That is his vice president, Mr. Blah, would take over.

And then as soon as the Liberians meeting Accra then reached a compromise on an interim government, they will take over for Mr. Blah and run the country for a one, two-year period, set in motion the mechanism for free, fair elections and the transition to a democratic rule.

It is going to be difficult. There are a number of means being bandied about as people who might lead the interim government. Allen Johnson Serlee (ph), the Harvard educator, former executive of the United Nations. Winston Tuchman (ph), a nephew of a former Liberian president. Tee Potter (ph). And a lot of other people.

Instead of focusing on names, rather, I like to focus on the characteristics of the person who would be best suited to lead Liberia, particularly during the interim period. I think it's somebody who, first, obviously must have some acceptance.

Second, I think he must have some respect and credibility in the international community to attract the aid that Liberia desperately needs.

Finally, I think this person must a unifier, a healer, a person who can heal the wounds, you know, that are based on ethnic differences that have plague the country, who by the sheer force of his or her personality, his track record, can bring the various factions together.

PHILLIPS: Kwame Clement, practicing lawyer in the United States, former Liberian journalist, thanks so much for your time, sir.

CLEMENT: Thank you, too. My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 4, 2003 - 14:29   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Liberian President Charles Taylor is due to step down August 11 with a new president sworn in at midday. The national assembly meets Thursday to pick the new leader, but rebel forces aren't convinced that Taylor will give it up.
Joining us, someone with an insider's view of the crisis in Liberia, attorney Kwame Clement. He is a former Liberian news anchor, also. Kwame, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

KWAME CLEMENT, FRM. LIBERIAN NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: I'm curious, as an attorney, just quickly, if you could tell me, what kind of freedom did you have to carry out your duties as an attorney in Liberia? Did you carry on as an attorney there in Liberia, or was that just here in the states?

CLEMENT: No, here in the states, in Liberia I worked as a broadcast journalist. And obviously because we had a dictatorial government, Samuel Do, our military leader was in power then, I ran into frequent problems with the government. I was...

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

PHILLIPS: ... writer and criticizing Liberian government. How was he treated? Did you witness firsthand how freedom of speech just was not normalcy?

CLEMENT: Well, yes. There were episodes in Liberia when we have, you know, periods when journalists were free without suppression from the government. But particularly on the regime of Samuel Do. There wasn't press freedom in sense here. And journalism was a profession that many mothers discouraged their children from going into.

PHILLIPS: How many times has Charles Taylor actually said -- do you know how many times he's actually said, I will leave, I will leave Liberia?

CLEMENT: Probably for the umpteenth time now. I think, frankly, at the moment he's got no option. If he doesn't leave, he faces the prospects of arrest by forces that are now entering the country. If he leaves, he goes into exile in Nigeria. There's an indictment from the war crimes tribunal in Sierra Leone hanging over him. I understand as part of the deal to get him out is the indictment will not be lifted but Nigeria will not turn him over to the war crimes court in Sierra Leone. Anyway, he not be a free man in Nigeria, he will be a virtual -- under house arrest, not free to walk the streets. So if the compromise that we need for peace to return to Liberia is that he goes into exile in Nigeria, I welcome that.

PHILLIPS: So, kind of give me a feel. You know so much of the history. Is Charles Taylor a type, let's say, like Saddam Hussein who says, I'm going to go down a martyr, there's no way -- he's saying all this. He's saying he's going to leave. Do you really believe he will? Or is this a man that will fight to the end?

CLEMENT: It is possible that he may want to stick it out. I doubt if he will.

Even if he does stick it out in Liberia, I don't think he can pose any serious military challenge to the forces that are coming in for a variety of reasons. He wouldn't have popular support on the ground, there would be no network of people providing him aid and comfort, he will have no sanctuary in any of the neighboring countries -- Sierra Leone, Guinea, the Ivory Coast.

All of them have governments that are hostile to him. All of them have been through periods of instability. The French recently restored some semblance of normalcy in the Ivory Coast and the British did the same in Sierra Leone so they wouldn't want anyone to use their countries as bases to launch attacks into Liberia.

So he may run into the bush, but I don't think he can pose any serious military challenge to the peace keeping forces on the ground in Liberia.

PHILLIPS: Kwame, why do you think this is happening now? I mean this situation's been going on in Liberia for years and years. Is it because there's this war on terror that's taking place? What happened in Afghanistan? What happened in Iraq? It only make sense that this happen now?

CLEMENT: I think this confluence of certain factors explains what's happening now. On the one hand, you had the British and the French because they went into neighboring Sierra Leone and the Ivory Coast to bring some normalcy, wanted to tell all coups (ph) in the international community bring pressure to bear on Charles Taylor because they knew as long as he remains in power whatever gains they had made in Sierra Leone and the Ivory Coast could be jeopardized.

Second, I think given President Bush's recent trip to Africa as part of the campaign to win goodwill in Africa, he committed himself to solving the problem in Liberia, or at least putting U.S. troops on the ground and pressuring Taylor to leave.

And thirdly, rebel forces opposed to Mr. Taylor made some military gains and thus forced him to the bargaining table. So I think a confluence of those factors explains what's happening in the country at the moment.

PHILLIPS: So who steps in takes care of Liberia? Who runs Liberia? Are there any good candidates? And also, how do you deal with the rebels and the government forces?

CLEMENT: As I understand it, there are a group of Liberians, political leaders now meeting in the Accra, the capital of Ghana. They are trying to reach some compromise on an interim government that would fill the vacuum when Mr. Taylor leave.

But the plan at the moment is that the constitutional provision in the Liberian -- the provision in the Liberian constitution for cessation of power would come into place once he leaves on the 11th. That is his vice president, Mr. Blah, would take over.

And then as soon as the Liberians meeting Accra then reached a compromise on an interim government, they will take over for Mr. Blah and run the country for a one, two-year period, set in motion the mechanism for free, fair elections and the transition to a democratic rule.

It is going to be difficult. There are a number of means being bandied about as people who might lead the interim government. Allen Johnson Serlee (ph), the Harvard educator, former executive of the United Nations. Winston Tuchman (ph), a nephew of a former Liberian president. Tee Potter (ph). And a lot of other people.

Instead of focusing on names, rather, I like to focus on the characteristics of the person who would be best suited to lead Liberia, particularly during the interim period. I think it's somebody who, first, obviously must have some acceptance.

Second, I think he must have some respect and credibility in the international community to attract the aid that Liberia desperately needs.

Finally, I think this person must a unifier, a healer, a person who can heal the wounds, you know, that are based on ethnic differences that have plague the country, who by the sheer force of his or her personality, his track record, can bring the various factions together.

PHILLIPS: Kwame Clement, practicing lawyer in the United States, former Liberian journalist, thanks so much for your time, sir.

CLEMENT: Thank you, too. My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com