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Interview With Roland Martin

Aired August 08, 2003 - 14:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A majority of white people are ready to play court defense for Lakers superstar Kobe Bryant. But Bryant clearly has more support among African-Americans as he faces a sexual assault charge in Colorado.
According a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 40 percent of white Americans believe the charges against Bryant are true compared to only 24 percent of African-Americans. Fifty-one percent of whites and a whopping 68 percent of blacks think he is innocent.

And as you see in these numbers, whites are more or less split in their sympathy for the athlete, while among blacks 63 percent give him a shoulder to cry on, so to speak.

It seems a little early to be dragging out the race card, but there must be a reason for those numbers we see there. With us is Roland Martin, a syndicated columnist, author of "Speak, Brother: a Black Man's View of America." He's just written about this. Roland. good to have you with us.

ROLAND MARTIN, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good to be here, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Try to decipher those numbers for us. What's going on? Are people reading race into something that shouldn't have race as a part of it?

MARTIN: You're absolutely correct. We must understand, Miles, that we have a situation where there's an African-American basketball player, and the latest victim who was white, and Kobe Bryant himself has a white wife. And Americans, white and black, still have not come to this issue of race.

And so we have dealt with this, the Kerner Commission reported in the late '60s that there are two Americas, one white and one black. You look at the television shows that we watch, the shows that African-Americans watch are typically the lowest-rated among the highest rated among whites households. The television that are among the highest-rated among white are typically lowest among black households.

So I'm not surprised that you have two different views on this particular issue.

O'BRIEN: Well when you start talking about this issue, you get to some very fundamental feelings about human beings and how they relate to each other. We're talking about, you know, almost tribal sort of issues.

MARTIN: Miles, one of the problems in America is that we have never had an honest discussion about the issue of race. Americans have somehow acted as if racism and the issue of black and white, well, we dealt with that. It is so ingrained in our system that we have to remember that in this country the entire apparatus sanctioned discrimination, sanctioned slavery, sanctioned racism.

And so we can't ignore the impact. You have African-Americans right now, Miles, who are upset right now because Kobe Bryant married a woman who is white. You have whites who are upset because how dare she marry him? That was one of the complaints that many members of Congress raised after the Civil War.

So, again, it isn't surprising that you have this poll where folks make that comment.

O'BRIEN: Roland?

MARTIN: My apologies to you. I want you to stand by here and we're going to go back to California and Arnold Schwarzenegger, and some comments he's making to reporters. Stand by, we'll get back to this discussion.

(INTERRUPTED BY COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)

O'BRIEN: Let's get back to our discussion with Roland Martin. We're talking about Kobe Bryant and the issue of race. And I apologize for intruding on our discussion.

MARTIN: Miles, it's OK.

O'BRIEN: All right. We were talking -- going back to the O.J. verdict for a moment.

MARTIN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: To me that was a pivotal moment on this whole discussion we're on, because I felt like many white Americans were totally shocked that African-Americans viewed that through a racial prism. I think white Americans were oblivious to that. No longer is that the case, I think. And how does that change things for Kobe Bryant?

MARTIN: Because, Miles, no offense, but white Americans are in denial about our criminal justice system. You have individuals who act as if that our criminal justice system perfect, there's nothing wrong, that everything is OK. And then you have those African- Americans out there who refuse to be honest and admit that there's some people out there who are black who are flat out criminals, who need to be in jail. And so there is dishonesty on both side of the aisle.

The problem is this case -- look, Kobe Bryant is from L.A., Kobe Bryant's an athlete. But O.J. Simpson was charged with a brutal murder. We must understand that. And so to compare Kobe to O.J. is doing a severe injustice.

Miles, I firmly believe that in 30 to 40 years the country of South Africa will have dealt with the issue of race far better than what America has done in the last 150 years.

O'BRIEN: That's a pretty volatile statement.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: How is that possible? A country that had apartheid as it's system.

MARTIN: Here's why, Miles. Because after they ended apartheid, South Africa chose to create a Truth and Reconciliation Commission where they said, We're going to grant immunity even to some of the most heartened apartheid supporters so we can put this issue behind us.

So they talked about in wrenching details what took place. People were kill in massacres. They confronted the issue of race head on because they understood that they could not go forward if they never addressed the issue.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well then, you could make a case, I suppose that the Kobe Bryant matter, as it unfolds, might be an opportunity for people.

MARTIN: It's a Band-Aid.

O'BRIEN: Well is it an opportunity for people to begin a discussion, perhaps?

MARTIN: It's an opportunity if we want to be honest about it.

A couple month ago, Miles, Senator Sam Brownback put forth a proposal to create a special committee in the United States Congress to allow them to examine the issue of race. First of all, he's a Republican. OK? They shot it down because they didn't really want to talk about it. Said, Well, we've sort of discussed it.

America has never confronted our deeply held issues. We must understand that Jim Crow was a child of slavery. The present day is in extension of Jim Crow. We will only get over the issue of race, Miles.

when we actually confront it, confront our deepest fears -- why as an African-Americans when people look at me (UNINTELLIGIBLE) play football. Miles, I can't go places and say I attended Texas A&M University and graduated without someone saying, Did you play football? No, I never played football. I never put a helmet on.

But by looking at me, and saying, Well, he's 230 pounds, 5'11", he must have played football, we have these deeply held convictions. We must discuss them in an honest and open matter and be truthful to move forward.

O'BRIEN: All right, Roland Martin. Unfortunately, we've got to cut it short. I'd like it continue this discussion.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: We'll have you back some time because this obviously will come up time and again as we follow that story.

MARTIN: Not a problem, Miles. Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: Roland Martin, syndicated columnist, thanks very much.

MARTIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 8, 2003 - 14:43   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A majority of white people are ready to play court defense for Lakers superstar Kobe Bryant. But Bryant clearly has more support among African-Americans as he faces a sexual assault charge in Colorado.
According a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 40 percent of white Americans believe the charges against Bryant are true compared to only 24 percent of African-Americans. Fifty-one percent of whites and a whopping 68 percent of blacks think he is innocent.

And as you see in these numbers, whites are more or less split in their sympathy for the athlete, while among blacks 63 percent give him a shoulder to cry on, so to speak.

It seems a little early to be dragging out the race card, but there must be a reason for those numbers we see there. With us is Roland Martin, a syndicated columnist, author of "Speak, Brother: a Black Man's View of America." He's just written about this. Roland. good to have you with us.

ROLAND MARTIN, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good to be here, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Try to decipher those numbers for us. What's going on? Are people reading race into something that shouldn't have race as a part of it?

MARTIN: You're absolutely correct. We must understand, Miles, that we have a situation where there's an African-American basketball player, and the latest victim who was white, and Kobe Bryant himself has a white wife. And Americans, white and black, still have not come to this issue of race.

And so we have dealt with this, the Kerner Commission reported in the late '60s that there are two Americas, one white and one black. You look at the television shows that we watch, the shows that African-Americans watch are typically the lowest-rated among the highest rated among whites households. The television that are among the highest-rated among white are typically lowest among black households.

So I'm not surprised that you have two different views on this particular issue.

O'BRIEN: Well when you start talking about this issue, you get to some very fundamental feelings about human beings and how they relate to each other. We're talking about, you know, almost tribal sort of issues.

MARTIN: Miles, one of the problems in America is that we have never had an honest discussion about the issue of race. Americans have somehow acted as if racism and the issue of black and white, well, we dealt with that. It is so ingrained in our system that we have to remember that in this country the entire apparatus sanctioned discrimination, sanctioned slavery, sanctioned racism.

And so we can't ignore the impact. You have African-Americans right now, Miles, who are upset right now because Kobe Bryant married a woman who is white. You have whites who are upset because how dare she marry him? That was one of the complaints that many members of Congress raised after the Civil War.

So, again, it isn't surprising that you have this poll where folks make that comment.

O'BRIEN: Roland?

MARTIN: My apologies to you. I want you to stand by here and we're going to go back to California and Arnold Schwarzenegger, and some comments he's making to reporters. Stand by, we'll get back to this discussion.

(INTERRUPTED BY COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)

O'BRIEN: Let's get back to our discussion with Roland Martin. We're talking about Kobe Bryant and the issue of race. And I apologize for intruding on our discussion.

MARTIN: Miles, it's OK.

O'BRIEN: All right. We were talking -- going back to the O.J. verdict for a moment.

MARTIN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: To me that was a pivotal moment on this whole discussion we're on, because I felt like many white Americans were totally shocked that African-Americans viewed that through a racial prism. I think white Americans were oblivious to that. No longer is that the case, I think. And how does that change things for Kobe Bryant?

MARTIN: Because, Miles, no offense, but white Americans are in denial about our criminal justice system. You have individuals who act as if that our criminal justice system perfect, there's nothing wrong, that everything is OK. And then you have those African- Americans out there who refuse to be honest and admit that there's some people out there who are black who are flat out criminals, who need to be in jail. And so there is dishonesty on both side of the aisle.

The problem is this case -- look, Kobe Bryant is from L.A., Kobe Bryant's an athlete. But O.J. Simpson was charged with a brutal murder. We must understand that. And so to compare Kobe to O.J. is doing a severe injustice.

Miles, I firmly believe that in 30 to 40 years the country of South Africa will have dealt with the issue of race far better than what America has done in the last 150 years.

O'BRIEN: That's a pretty volatile statement.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: How is that possible? A country that had apartheid as it's system.

MARTIN: Here's why, Miles. Because after they ended apartheid, South Africa chose to create a Truth and Reconciliation Commission where they said, We're going to grant immunity even to some of the most heartened apartheid supporters so we can put this issue behind us.

So they talked about in wrenching details what took place. People were kill in massacres. They confronted the issue of race head on because they understood that they could not go forward if they never addressed the issue.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well then, you could make a case, I suppose that the Kobe Bryant matter, as it unfolds, might be an opportunity for people.

MARTIN: It's a Band-Aid.

O'BRIEN: Well is it an opportunity for people to begin a discussion, perhaps?

MARTIN: It's an opportunity if we want to be honest about it.

A couple month ago, Miles, Senator Sam Brownback put forth a proposal to create a special committee in the United States Congress to allow them to examine the issue of race. First of all, he's a Republican. OK? They shot it down because they didn't really want to talk about it. Said, Well, we've sort of discussed it.

America has never confronted our deeply held issues. We must understand that Jim Crow was a child of slavery. The present day is in extension of Jim Crow. We will only get over the issue of race, Miles.

when we actually confront it, confront our deepest fears -- why as an African-Americans when people look at me (UNINTELLIGIBLE) play football. Miles, I can't go places and say I attended Texas A&M University and graduated without someone saying, Did you play football? No, I never played football. I never put a helmet on.

But by looking at me, and saying, Well, he's 230 pounds, 5'11", he must have played football, we have these deeply held convictions. We must discuss them in an honest and open matter and be truthful to move forward.

O'BRIEN: All right, Roland Martin. Unfortunately, we've got to cut it short. I'd like it continue this discussion.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: We'll have you back some time because this obviously will come up time and again as we follow that story.

MARTIN: Not a problem, Miles. Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: Roland Martin, syndicated columnist, thanks very much.

MARTIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com