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Interview With Avery Friedman

Aired August 11, 2003 - 14:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So far the teens only face assault charges, but homeless advocates think authorities should charge them with attempted murder and prosecute the case as a hate crime. They also urge the prosecutor to charge the teens' parents.
Joining us now in Cleveland, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and chief council of the Fair Housing Council. Avery, glad to have you with us.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to see you again, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well what do you think? Is attempted murder and prosecuting this as a hate crime -- is that a little over the top or is that about right?

FRIEDMAN: Well I understand the advocacy by the homeless organizations. The fact is, though, 20 years ago they called this "wilding." But as far as far as the law is concerned, this is called "statutory battery." And all four individuals are in trouble.

PHILLIPS: All right, so what does that mean, statutory battery?

FRIEDMAN: Well it means there is a crime of a non-consensual touching that causes injury. This really isn't an assault because under the law an assault contemplates the anticipation of hurting somebody.

In this case, the homeless were asleep, and so what we're likely to see here, at least by charges by the prosecuting attorney, Kyra, is battery charges against the four.

The big issue here, I think, is whether or not the prosecuting attorney is going to charge three of the four as adults.

PHILLIPS: Now if indeed that happens, what's the difference in punishment?

FRIEDMAN: Well there's a huge difference. If the three are charged as juveniles, they may face incarceration in a detention center for a relatively short period of time. If they are charged as adults, and at least based on the elements of the statutory battery, face being tried as adults, then what we're going to look at is they could go to jail for up to 20 years. So there is a substantial difference in the penalty if they're convicted of these crimes.

PHILLIPS: Now on the other side of things, could you see these homeless individuals suing these kids, suing their parents?

FRIEDMAN: Well the reality is any given night in America you are going to find 700,000 to 800,000 homeless people out in the streets. They can't even get medical or emotional help, much less find their way to a law office and bringing suit.

Theoretically, Kyra, you're right. But the reality of homeless life in America is that they're probably not going to do a darn thing about it.

PHILLIPS: Well should somebody do something about it for them? Is there an issue of their rights here? And if they don't speak up, it just once again goes away?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. These are the invisible people of America. And it really is up to the district attorneys around the country, up to the prosecuting attorneys in -- primarily in urban areas to stand up and say, You know what? they may be invisible, but they are citizens and they're entitled to be safe from crime.

So the test here will be whether or not the prosecuting attorney gets tough with these four young men who, literally, burned, electrocuted these sleeping homeless people.

PHILLIPS: So, Avery, what do you say to the folks that say, OK, talking about these invisible people that you say. They're not working, they're sleeping on the streets, some dealing drugs, et cetera, et cetera. They don't deserve to have our hard-working tax dollars defend them or help them?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the reality is, they're citizens of the United States. They are living, breathing human beings and they are entitled to the protection of the law. Whatever responsibility we have as humane -- a humane nation really will be tested out in this very small case, but real case, of what these four young men to sleeping, homeless people.

PHILLIPS: Yes, speaking of humane nation, what's wrong with these kids? What's wrong with kids these days?

FRIEDMAN: You know you see this and you couldn't hire script writers to come up with a perverse and disturbing scenario like we've seen in this case. I don't know how anyone -- in fact I saw some commentary that it's a dumb crime. You know, Kyra, this isn't dumb crime, this is a mean crime. And I think these youngsters should be held accountable.

PHILLIPS: Do you think their parents should be held accountable?

FRIEDMAN: Well under many state laws, and Ohio is one of them, the parents may be partially liable for any injury, although there's a very strict limitation. And it strikes me that if I'm the prosecuting attorney, I'm going after them, too.

PHILLIPS: Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney, also law professor, thanks for your time, Avery.. FRIEDMAN: Thanks, Kyra.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 11, 2003 - 14:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So far the teens only face assault charges, but homeless advocates think authorities should charge them with attempted murder and prosecute the case as a hate crime. They also urge the prosecutor to charge the teens' parents.
Joining us now in Cleveland, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and chief council of the Fair Housing Council. Avery, glad to have you with us.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to see you again, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well what do you think? Is attempted murder and prosecuting this as a hate crime -- is that a little over the top or is that about right?

FRIEDMAN: Well I understand the advocacy by the homeless organizations. The fact is, though, 20 years ago they called this "wilding." But as far as far as the law is concerned, this is called "statutory battery." And all four individuals are in trouble.

PHILLIPS: All right, so what does that mean, statutory battery?

FRIEDMAN: Well it means there is a crime of a non-consensual touching that causes injury. This really isn't an assault because under the law an assault contemplates the anticipation of hurting somebody.

In this case, the homeless were asleep, and so what we're likely to see here, at least by charges by the prosecuting attorney, Kyra, is battery charges against the four.

The big issue here, I think, is whether or not the prosecuting attorney is going to charge three of the four as adults.

PHILLIPS: Now if indeed that happens, what's the difference in punishment?

FRIEDMAN: Well there's a huge difference. If the three are charged as juveniles, they may face incarceration in a detention center for a relatively short period of time. If they are charged as adults, and at least based on the elements of the statutory battery, face being tried as adults, then what we're going to look at is they could go to jail for up to 20 years. So there is a substantial difference in the penalty if they're convicted of these crimes.

PHILLIPS: Now on the other side of things, could you see these homeless individuals suing these kids, suing their parents?

FRIEDMAN: Well the reality is any given night in America you are going to find 700,000 to 800,000 homeless people out in the streets. They can't even get medical or emotional help, much less find their way to a law office and bringing suit.

Theoretically, Kyra, you're right. But the reality of homeless life in America is that they're probably not going to do a darn thing about it.

PHILLIPS: Well should somebody do something about it for them? Is there an issue of their rights here? And if they don't speak up, it just once again goes away?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. These are the invisible people of America. And it really is up to the district attorneys around the country, up to the prosecuting attorneys in -- primarily in urban areas to stand up and say, You know what? they may be invisible, but they are citizens and they're entitled to be safe from crime.

So the test here will be whether or not the prosecuting attorney gets tough with these four young men who, literally, burned, electrocuted these sleeping homeless people.

PHILLIPS: So, Avery, what do you say to the folks that say, OK, talking about these invisible people that you say. They're not working, they're sleeping on the streets, some dealing drugs, et cetera, et cetera. They don't deserve to have our hard-working tax dollars defend them or help them?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the reality is, they're citizens of the United States. They are living, breathing human beings and they are entitled to the protection of the law. Whatever responsibility we have as humane -- a humane nation really will be tested out in this very small case, but real case, of what these four young men to sleeping, homeless people.

PHILLIPS: Yes, speaking of humane nation, what's wrong with these kids? What's wrong with kids these days?

FRIEDMAN: You know you see this and you couldn't hire script writers to come up with a perverse and disturbing scenario like we've seen in this case. I don't know how anyone -- in fact I saw some commentary that it's a dumb crime. You know, Kyra, this isn't dumb crime, this is a mean crime. And I think these youngsters should be held accountable.

PHILLIPS: Do you think their parents should be held accountable?

FRIEDMAN: Well under many state laws, and Ohio is one of them, the parents may be partially liable for any injury, although there's a very strict limitation. And it strikes me that if I'm the prosecuting attorney, I'm going after them, too.

PHILLIPS: Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney, also law professor, thanks for your time, Avery.. FRIEDMAN: Thanks, Kyra.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com