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Witnesses: 6 to & Israeli Tanks Outside of Ramallah

Aired August 20, 2003 - 15:48   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, overseas -- we will shift our attention now to the Middle East. Specifically, the West Bank town of Ramallah where there are reports of at least a half dozen tanks of the Israeli Defense Forces in that area. This 24 hours after that terrible terrorist bombing on that tandem (ph) bus right in the heart of Jerusalem.
On the line with us now is our Jerusalem bureau chief, Jerrold Kessel. Jerrold, what do you know?

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Miles.

Well, we know there are some tanks on the outskirts of Ramallah. But I suggest -- although, of course, we do not know what the Israelis are planning -- that this does not look like a major action of this kind that Israel launched after suicide bombings last year when it really reinvaded the Palestinian towns. And that's because, by and large, Israel still has control and it's still an occupation that will, when it wants to be, of whatever area's in the West Bank, include including the town of Ramallah.

What it does suggest is -- the Israeli Security Cabinet meets under Prime Minister Sharon and continues to meet at this house in Jerusalem -- is that perhaps the Israelis are planning -- but not necessarily in Ramallah-- to go ahead and carry out a number of what security officials are calling pinpointed strikes against terror suspects in response to that suicide bombing in Jerusalem yesterday.

And the big question is whether -- not so much whether the tanks will be involved, whether any action, Miles -- but whether they will be carried out regardless of whether the Palestinian Authority, which is meeting itself in Ramallah under Yasser Arafat -- decides to clamp down on the militant groups.

That's the key question at this stage: will Israel act, in any event, even if it is only small strikes against pinpointed target, even if the Palestinian Authority decides to take action? I think it's more of a political question than necessarily a military one at this stage -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jerrold, you say action. Presumably, just statements are not enough. What kind of action will the Israeli Security Cabinet require at this juncture?

KESSEL: Yes, that is a key point because we've heard some very, very tough talk through this afternoon and into this evening from the Palestinian side, from the security chief, where they vowed literally to go after and to arrest those who were responsible for the -- for sending the suicide bomber. That was the order, we understand, that Prime Minister Abbas gave the security chiefs.

Now what does that mean? We shall have to see whether they mean business and go after some of the leading figures in the Palestinian militant groups. That's certainly what President Bush, through his spokesman, has been saying again this evening. It's certainly what the Israelis are demanding as a first step. But whether it will be enough, if the Palestinians not only state their firm purpose, but even go after some of the activists in the Hamas and Islamic Jihad -- whether that will be enough for the Israelis or whether the Israelis will preempt them.

That's the stage we're at. It is a very fragile moment, but it does suggest that action needs to be taken by the Palestinians because the pressure is more on Mahmoud Abbas than it is on Ariel Sharon at this stage to act.

O'BRIEN: I guess the question on my mind, though, is if, in fact, Mahmoud Abbas issues the order to go ahead and execute some arrests -- in the past the criticism has been, on the Israeli side, that these arrests are nothing more than shams and that the jails that they're put into there have revolving doors, if you will. What can Abbas do at this point to assure the Israelis that this is a real crackdown?

KESSEL: It is, again -- you're making a very good point because we're going back to those accusations and counteraccusations of whether the Palestinians were doing anything serious or not.

What we do have at this stage is a new ingredient, and that is the United States' involvement. If the United States, I think, will be the one that will judge whether the Palestinians are really going after the militant groups or not.

What's happened after yesterday's suicide bombing in Jerusalem is interesting, Miles, I think, in terms of the effect it is having on Mahmoud Abbas in his relationship with Washington, even though it may not have been stated outright by Colin Powell, Secretary of State Colin Powell. When he spoke to the Palestinian prime minister this evening, I think there's been an implicit change and the Palestinians understand that. Over the last six, seven weeks, while the ceasefire was basically in place, while the United States still accepted in principle, still was ideologically lined up with Israel's position that there can be no real progress to peace unless the terrorists, as both the Israelis and the Americans call the militant groups -- unless they are taken care of it, there can be flow movement down the line.

But Mr. Abbas, Prime Minister Abbas, has managed, it seems, to convince the United States that it was not the time to act while the militants, while the terrorists were not acting.

Now, that has changed since last night. Once there as this major terror action by Hamas or Islamic Jihad, the United States is now saying to the Palestinians, Oh, time is up. You must act now. And that is why Mr. Abbas is under such pressure to act now.

O'BRIEN: Jerrold Kessel joining us from Jerusalem.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired August 20, 2003 - 15:48   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, overseas -- we will shift our attention now to the Middle East. Specifically, the West Bank town of Ramallah where there are reports of at least a half dozen tanks of the Israeli Defense Forces in that area. This 24 hours after that terrible terrorist bombing on that tandem (ph) bus right in the heart of Jerusalem.
On the line with us now is our Jerusalem bureau chief, Jerrold Kessel. Jerrold, what do you know?

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Miles.

Well, we know there are some tanks on the outskirts of Ramallah. But I suggest -- although, of course, we do not know what the Israelis are planning -- that this does not look like a major action of this kind that Israel launched after suicide bombings last year when it really reinvaded the Palestinian towns. And that's because, by and large, Israel still has control and it's still an occupation that will, when it wants to be, of whatever area's in the West Bank, include including the town of Ramallah.

What it does suggest is -- the Israeli Security Cabinet meets under Prime Minister Sharon and continues to meet at this house in Jerusalem -- is that perhaps the Israelis are planning -- but not necessarily in Ramallah-- to go ahead and carry out a number of what security officials are calling pinpointed strikes against terror suspects in response to that suicide bombing in Jerusalem yesterday.

And the big question is whether -- not so much whether the tanks will be involved, whether any action, Miles -- but whether they will be carried out regardless of whether the Palestinian Authority, which is meeting itself in Ramallah under Yasser Arafat -- decides to clamp down on the militant groups.

That's the key question at this stage: will Israel act, in any event, even if it is only small strikes against pinpointed target, even if the Palestinian Authority decides to take action? I think it's more of a political question than necessarily a military one at this stage -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jerrold, you say action. Presumably, just statements are not enough. What kind of action will the Israeli Security Cabinet require at this juncture?

KESSEL: Yes, that is a key point because we've heard some very, very tough talk through this afternoon and into this evening from the Palestinian side, from the security chief, where they vowed literally to go after and to arrest those who were responsible for the -- for sending the suicide bomber. That was the order, we understand, that Prime Minister Abbas gave the security chiefs.

Now what does that mean? We shall have to see whether they mean business and go after some of the leading figures in the Palestinian militant groups. That's certainly what President Bush, through his spokesman, has been saying again this evening. It's certainly what the Israelis are demanding as a first step. But whether it will be enough, if the Palestinians not only state their firm purpose, but even go after some of the activists in the Hamas and Islamic Jihad -- whether that will be enough for the Israelis or whether the Israelis will preempt them.

That's the stage we're at. It is a very fragile moment, but it does suggest that action needs to be taken by the Palestinians because the pressure is more on Mahmoud Abbas than it is on Ariel Sharon at this stage to act.

O'BRIEN: I guess the question on my mind, though, is if, in fact, Mahmoud Abbas issues the order to go ahead and execute some arrests -- in the past the criticism has been, on the Israeli side, that these arrests are nothing more than shams and that the jails that they're put into there have revolving doors, if you will. What can Abbas do at this point to assure the Israelis that this is a real crackdown?

KESSEL: It is, again -- you're making a very good point because we're going back to those accusations and counteraccusations of whether the Palestinians were doing anything serious or not.

What we do have at this stage is a new ingredient, and that is the United States' involvement. If the United States, I think, will be the one that will judge whether the Palestinians are really going after the militant groups or not.

What's happened after yesterday's suicide bombing in Jerusalem is interesting, Miles, I think, in terms of the effect it is having on Mahmoud Abbas in his relationship with Washington, even though it may not have been stated outright by Colin Powell, Secretary of State Colin Powell. When he spoke to the Palestinian prime minister this evening, I think there's been an implicit change and the Palestinians understand that. Over the last six, seven weeks, while the ceasefire was basically in place, while the United States still accepted in principle, still was ideologically lined up with Israel's position that there can be no real progress to peace unless the terrorists, as both the Israelis and the Americans call the militant groups -- unless they are taken care of it, there can be flow movement down the line.

But Mr. Abbas, Prime Minister Abbas, has managed, it seems, to convince the United States that it was not the time to act while the militants, while the terrorists were not acting.

Now, that has changed since last night. Once there as this major terror action by Hamas or Islamic Jihad, the United States is now saying to the Palestinians, Oh, time is up. You must act now. And that is why Mr. Abbas is under such pressure to act now.

O'BRIEN: Jerrold Kessel joining us from Jerusalem.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com