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Interview With Carl Taylor
Aired August 25, 2003 - 14:28 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just moments ago the D.A. in Worcester County, Mass, John Konte, was talking about Joseph Druce, the man now that investigators say murdered John Geoghan, a defrocked priest, over the weekend. This is what the D.A. had to say about Joseph Druce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KONTE, WORCHESTER CO., MASS. D.A.: Mr. Druce seems to be the single defendant here. He has a long-standing phobia, it appears, towards homosexuals of any kind. I'm not a psychologist and I'm not a psychiatrist, but I would say that he's filled with long-standing hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well not a psychologist, but Dr. Carl Taylor is definitely a criminologist. Actually you, Doctor, may have a psychology degree, do you?
DR. CARL TAYLOR, CRIMINOLOGIST: No, I don't.
PHILLIPS: OK, I want to make sure that's the case before I even give you a little extra credit there.
Let me ask you, just before the break, the mindset of Joseph Druce here. You were saying definitely in an environment where he is in this correctional facility a murder like this is a prize?
TAYLOR: Absolutely. First of all, have you prison culture, which can be diverse. But in his case being an alleged neo-Nazi, in that subculture, that machismo, this type of act is hailed as an act of a martyr, or that this makes him a real winner, a big plus.
PHILLIPS: Now, we always hear about pedophiles in jail. We can look at the Jeffrey Dahmer case, a number of other case. Are pedophiles -- we hear they are targeted, hear they are treated differently. Is that true?
TAYLOR: Absolutely. Even amongst offenders or criminals a pedophile is the bottom of the barrel. And is also considered a very weak person that would prey on children, those of less power. So it's the bottom of the barrel. It can't get too much worse than that caste system inside the wall in prison culture or even in street culture.
PHILLIPS: So, what about the mentality of prison guards? Is this a situation where when a convicted pedophile comes into jail, are they protected a little bit more than others? Do prison guards really worry about that? Is it sort of like, well, when the shift is over, backs are turned?
TAYLOR: Well it's a tough question. You're speaking really of prison guard management. Prison guards who are professionals, of course, have an obligation and will live up to the obligation. But I would be less than honest to not say that they are probably not fans of these pedophiles, even though professionally they will look out. No one, for the most part is feeling a great deal of sympathy towards pedophiles.
PHILLIPS: And as the D.A. was explaining, Dr. Taylor, Joseph Druce was really planning this for a long period of time, for weeks jamming certain hinges there where Geoghan was staying. Organizing certain types of socks he had stretched out so he would be able to strangle him.
I guess you're talking about a man that -- or does, rather, have a lot of time on his hands to plan something like this.
TAYLOR: I think that's an excellent point. I was going to point out it's not like he has to go to work every day or go to school or do anything else. So he has a great deal of time to plan.
I think in this case you have an extra incentive because this was a priest, someone that society has engaged to uplift us, and this person has been in essence a masquerade, a wolf in sheep's clothing. So when you look at it in terms of God and religion and the betrayal I think that this man had an incentive, as others, to get even and feels very good.
Of course, I can't speak for Mr. Druce. I dare not particularly since he's a white supremacist. But at the same time he had quite a bit of incentive to get this guy.
PHILLIPS: Now you have a number of investigations taking place. The public safety secretary, Edward Flynn now going to review policies and procedures there in the correctional facility.
Is that what happened here? Does the system fail? Or did Joseph Druce just spend a lot of time making sure he could infiltrate maybe where there were some opportunity, not necessarily weaknesses in the system?
TAYLOR: I don't think -- of course, I'm long distance so don't know. I don't want the guys in Massachusetts coming after me. But I don't think the system actually failed. I think what you have, again, someone with a lot of time on their hands. In this environment I think that many would not have expected this in that this priest looked rather old and elderly and frail. And some people just kind of were turned off and looked the other way.
But I think even if they are doing their job, just like an assassin, if they are out to get you, they will get you. So I'm not quick to say it failed. Unfortunately this guy Druce had plenty of time to plan and he may have had others even encouraging him to do it.
PHILLIPS: Dr. Carl Taylor, criminologist and professor at Michigan State University. Thank you, sir, for your time.
TAYLOR: Thank you for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 25, 2003 - 14:28 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just moments ago the D.A. in Worcester County, Mass, John Konte, was talking about Joseph Druce, the man now that investigators say murdered John Geoghan, a defrocked priest, over the weekend. This is what the D.A. had to say about Joseph Druce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KONTE, WORCHESTER CO., MASS. D.A.: Mr. Druce seems to be the single defendant here. He has a long-standing phobia, it appears, towards homosexuals of any kind. I'm not a psychologist and I'm not a psychiatrist, but I would say that he's filled with long-standing hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well not a psychologist, but Dr. Carl Taylor is definitely a criminologist. Actually you, Doctor, may have a psychology degree, do you?
DR. CARL TAYLOR, CRIMINOLOGIST: No, I don't.
PHILLIPS: OK, I want to make sure that's the case before I even give you a little extra credit there.
Let me ask you, just before the break, the mindset of Joseph Druce here. You were saying definitely in an environment where he is in this correctional facility a murder like this is a prize?
TAYLOR: Absolutely. First of all, have you prison culture, which can be diverse. But in his case being an alleged neo-Nazi, in that subculture, that machismo, this type of act is hailed as an act of a martyr, or that this makes him a real winner, a big plus.
PHILLIPS: Now, we always hear about pedophiles in jail. We can look at the Jeffrey Dahmer case, a number of other case. Are pedophiles -- we hear they are targeted, hear they are treated differently. Is that true?
TAYLOR: Absolutely. Even amongst offenders or criminals a pedophile is the bottom of the barrel. And is also considered a very weak person that would prey on children, those of less power. So it's the bottom of the barrel. It can't get too much worse than that caste system inside the wall in prison culture or even in street culture.
PHILLIPS: So, what about the mentality of prison guards? Is this a situation where when a convicted pedophile comes into jail, are they protected a little bit more than others? Do prison guards really worry about that? Is it sort of like, well, when the shift is over, backs are turned?
TAYLOR: Well it's a tough question. You're speaking really of prison guard management. Prison guards who are professionals, of course, have an obligation and will live up to the obligation. But I would be less than honest to not say that they are probably not fans of these pedophiles, even though professionally they will look out. No one, for the most part is feeling a great deal of sympathy towards pedophiles.
PHILLIPS: And as the D.A. was explaining, Dr. Taylor, Joseph Druce was really planning this for a long period of time, for weeks jamming certain hinges there where Geoghan was staying. Organizing certain types of socks he had stretched out so he would be able to strangle him.
I guess you're talking about a man that -- or does, rather, have a lot of time on his hands to plan something like this.
TAYLOR: I think that's an excellent point. I was going to point out it's not like he has to go to work every day or go to school or do anything else. So he has a great deal of time to plan.
I think in this case you have an extra incentive because this was a priest, someone that society has engaged to uplift us, and this person has been in essence a masquerade, a wolf in sheep's clothing. So when you look at it in terms of God and religion and the betrayal I think that this man had an incentive, as others, to get even and feels very good.
Of course, I can't speak for Mr. Druce. I dare not particularly since he's a white supremacist. But at the same time he had quite a bit of incentive to get this guy.
PHILLIPS: Now you have a number of investigations taking place. The public safety secretary, Edward Flynn now going to review policies and procedures there in the correctional facility.
Is that what happened here? Does the system fail? Or did Joseph Druce just spend a lot of time making sure he could infiltrate maybe where there were some opportunity, not necessarily weaknesses in the system?
TAYLOR: I don't think -- of course, I'm long distance so don't know. I don't want the guys in Massachusetts coming after me. But I don't think the system actually failed. I think what you have, again, someone with a lot of time on their hands. In this environment I think that many would not have expected this in that this priest looked rather old and elderly and frail. And some people just kind of were turned off and looked the other way.
But I think even if they are doing their job, just like an assassin, if they are out to get you, they will get you. So I'm not quick to say it failed. Unfortunately this guy Druce had plenty of time to plan and he may have had others even encouraging him to do it.
PHILLIPS: Dr. Carl Taylor, criminologist and professor at Michigan State University. Thank you, sir, for your time.
TAYLOR: Thank you for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
