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Off Death Row

Aired September 03, 2003 - 14:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, let's take a closer look at the federal court ruling that overturned more than 111 federal death penalty cases. The state feeling the greatest impact of that ruling is Arizona, where 89 cases are now in legal limbo.
Ken Murray is the assistant federal public defender at the Phoenix Public Defender's Office. And he is joining us from the Valley of the Sun in Phoenix, Arizona this morning

Ken, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

KEN MURRAY, PHOENIX PUBLIC DEFENDER,'S OFFICE: Good morning. Thank you.

KAGAN: What was your reaction to hearing this decision from the Ninth Circuit?

MURRAY: Well, I was very happy for my clients, want some of them especially and the other inmates on death row who have been convicted and sentenced unconstitutionally.

KAGAN: Can you talk exactly who that client is? And have you had a chance to with him or her and what their reaction was?

MURRAY: Well, I haven't been able to talk to them personally because of all the media calls and requests so far. But another member of our staff has. And one, some of them were happy to hear about this, and happy that it may not only help them, but some of the folks that these are living by on death row.

KAGAN: Now, talk about confusing; this is coming out of the Ninth Circuit, which of course, covers the West Coast and the states on the western part of the U.S. But the attorney general of Arizona, Terry Goddard points out that in three of the four other circuit courts that have addressed this issue, they have gone the other way. And said that this decision about needing to have a jury trial -- a jury sentence commute the death sentence, that they say this is not a retroactive decision. So obviously, this is going to the Supreme Court.

MURRAY: Well, it is very confusing and the opinion is very wrong and full of a lot of legal, technical jargon. But the other cases did not have the same factual situation that Mr. Summerland's case had, where they ruled on the retroactivity. They were either relying on cases -- the Atrendi (ph) case which is a hate crime crazed case or other cases that weren't in the same posture as Mr. Summland's. To clarify that, obviously they will be asking the Supreme Court and we will defending the -- be defending the Ninth Circuit's position.

KAGAN: And basically to actually take a step backwards just to clarify exactly what we are talking about. The reason -- what the Ninth Circuit is looking at -- the issue here is how the death penalty was handed out in the first place, whether it was a judge or jury.

MURRAY: Right. The main issue was whether the judge, which Arizona law allows to make the -- all the factual findings necessary to make someone eligible for the death penalty, could do that. Or whether you had a right to a jury trial. And that's a fundamental right under the Constitution that the Ninth Circuit recognized that these individuals had a right to have.

KAGAN: These inmates are not off the hook because each of these individuals states can go then empanel a jury, if they so wish, and then give then give the death penalty yet again.

MURRAY: I'm not sure that's what the case says. It's says that Mr. Summerland's case, that his sentence is vacated. That means the death penalty is no longer allowed. They didn't give any direction, though, on how to re-sentence him. So I think that's the question that still remains open.

KAGAN: You don't -- so you don't think that leaves the door open?

MURRAY: I think it leaves the door open but I don't -- our position is that it doesn't require or it doesn't even allow re- sentencing, where the possibility of a death penalty would exist. I think that they'd have to sentence him to a sentence that was legal at the time for what he was convicted of and that would be a life sentence.

KAGAN: And once again, remind us of what he was convicted of; the crime that he committed.

MURRAY: He was convicted of a first-degree murder of an individual -- of a woman in 1981.

KAGAN: And I know it's your job obviously as the public defender to defend your client. But as you're going through this and through all the changes, do you ever think about the families and the family members that have to keep reliving this?

MURRAY: More than you than you imagine. I too am a member of a family who someone had murdered in a robbery. So I think about it every day.

KAGAN: And so how do you balance that?

MURRAY: I feel for them. I know what emotional trauma they go through every day and every night, whether or not these cases are going on. But I also know that they, like every other citizen in the United States, have a right to have a process that's going to be constitutional and is reliable as we can make.

KAGAN: And you've taken that on as your life's work. Ken Murray from Phoenix, appreciate your insight today.

MURRAY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you for that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 3, 2003 - 14:12   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, let's take a closer look at the federal court ruling that overturned more than 111 federal death penalty cases. The state feeling the greatest impact of that ruling is Arizona, where 89 cases are now in legal limbo.
Ken Murray is the assistant federal public defender at the Phoenix Public Defender's Office. And he is joining us from the Valley of the Sun in Phoenix, Arizona this morning

Ken, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

KEN MURRAY, PHOENIX PUBLIC DEFENDER,'S OFFICE: Good morning. Thank you.

KAGAN: What was your reaction to hearing this decision from the Ninth Circuit?

MURRAY: Well, I was very happy for my clients, want some of them especially and the other inmates on death row who have been convicted and sentenced unconstitutionally.

KAGAN: Can you talk exactly who that client is? And have you had a chance to with him or her and what their reaction was?

MURRAY: Well, I haven't been able to talk to them personally because of all the media calls and requests so far. But another member of our staff has. And one, some of them were happy to hear about this, and happy that it may not only help them, but some of the folks that these are living by on death row.

KAGAN: Now, talk about confusing; this is coming out of the Ninth Circuit, which of course, covers the West Coast and the states on the western part of the U.S. But the attorney general of Arizona, Terry Goddard points out that in three of the four other circuit courts that have addressed this issue, they have gone the other way. And said that this decision about needing to have a jury trial -- a jury sentence commute the death sentence, that they say this is not a retroactive decision. So obviously, this is going to the Supreme Court.

MURRAY: Well, it is very confusing and the opinion is very wrong and full of a lot of legal, technical jargon. But the other cases did not have the same factual situation that Mr. Summerland's case had, where they ruled on the retroactivity. They were either relying on cases -- the Atrendi (ph) case which is a hate crime crazed case or other cases that weren't in the same posture as Mr. Summland's. To clarify that, obviously they will be asking the Supreme Court and we will defending the -- be defending the Ninth Circuit's position.

KAGAN: And basically to actually take a step backwards just to clarify exactly what we are talking about. The reason -- what the Ninth Circuit is looking at -- the issue here is how the death penalty was handed out in the first place, whether it was a judge or jury.

MURRAY: Right. The main issue was whether the judge, which Arizona law allows to make the -- all the factual findings necessary to make someone eligible for the death penalty, could do that. Or whether you had a right to a jury trial. And that's a fundamental right under the Constitution that the Ninth Circuit recognized that these individuals had a right to have.

KAGAN: These inmates are not off the hook because each of these individuals states can go then empanel a jury, if they so wish, and then give then give the death penalty yet again.

MURRAY: I'm not sure that's what the case says. It's says that Mr. Summerland's case, that his sentence is vacated. That means the death penalty is no longer allowed. They didn't give any direction, though, on how to re-sentence him. So I think that's the question that still remains open.

KAGAN: You don't -- so you don't think that leaves the door open?

MURRAY: I think it leaves the door open but I don't -- our position is that it doesn't require or it doesn't even allow re- sentencing, where the possibility of a death penalty would exist. I think that they'd have to sentence him to a sentence that was legal at the time for what he was convicted of and that would be a life sentence.

KAGAN: And once again, remind us of what he was convicted of; the crime that he committed.

MURRAY: He was convicted of a first-degree murder of an individual -- of a woman in 1981.

KAGAN: And I know it's your job obviously as the public defender to defend your client. But as you're going through this and through all the changes, do you ever think about the families and the family members that have to keep reliving this?

MURRAY: More than you than you imagine. I too am a member of a family who someone had murdered in a robbery. So I think about it every day.

KAGAN: And so how do you balance that?

MURRAY: I feel for them. I know what emotional trauma they go through every day and every night, whether or not these cases are going on. But I also know that they, like every other citizen in the United States, have a right to have a process that's going to be constitutional and is reliable as we can make.

KAGAN: And you've taken that on as your life's work. Ken Murray from Phoenix, appreciate your insight today.

MURRAY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you for that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com