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Hot Topics: Iraq, Mideast, al Qaeda Tape

Aired September 12, 2003 - 12:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Plenty of hot topics to pick from today, starting with Iraq and the president's policies coming under some increasing criticism, while his poll numbers are also heading south. Also, another potentially explosive turn of events in the Middle East, and Osama bin Laden in that just-released videotape full of threats.
Joining us now, two guests here at the CNN Center, Martha Zoller, WDUN radio talk show host, and Cynthia Tucker, she's the editorial page editor of "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution."

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Martha, the president seems -- the poll numbers seem to be going down and down, and down, that job approval rating. How vulnerable is he going into the re-election campaign?

MARTHA ZOLLER, WDUN RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, the interesting thing to look at is that at same point, President Reagan was at 47 percent and President Clinton was at 44 percent. Interestingly enough, the president's father was the one that had the high approval ratings a year out from the elections. He's been getting bashed by the Democratic candidates, and that's what they're strategy is. Terry McAuliffe said that in the "Christian Science Monitor" yesterday.

But he is not really responding. So, I would expect poll numbers to be down. But, of course, he's vulnerable. Every president is vulnerable. The minute you think that you're not vulnerable is exactly when you are.

BLITZER: Do you think he's vulnerable, Cynthia?

CYNTHIA TUCKER, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": I think he's vulnerable, and it's not the Democratic candidates who are making him vulnerable. There are two major issues: Iraq, which hasn't turned out nearly as well as the American public had been led to expect, and the economy.

The economy is in awful shape. We've got a jobless recovery, if, in fact, that could be called a recovery. And I think that is troubling average Americans much more than either the president or the Congress had expected.

BLITZER: It's one thing to have -- as you well know, Martha, it's one thing to have improved economic growth, but if it's not translated into creation of jobs, the American public is still going to be angry. ZOLLER: Absolutely. And job creation is typically the last indicator to come along. But this one, admittedly, has been much slower than even we would expect. Technology jobs that we thought were going to be created at the end of this technology bubble in 1998 and 1999 has not happened. They're going overseas.

I think that one of the critical issues that the president must address for conservatives, his base, is going to be: What is he going do about the technical jobs that are going to India, Pakistan and around? There are 500,000 jobs that are doing that right now that are jobs Americans could do. Those are the issues that he needs to address when he's on the road, the domestic issues...

BLITZER: All right...

ZOLLER: Because conservatives are with him on the war.

BLITZER: He's a free trader, so it's unlikely he's going to start re-thinking...

ZOLLER: But then he needs to explain his point of view on it.

BLITZER: Right. Let's get to some e-mails. We've got one from Karen in California: "Why does Bush keep using the tactics of fear? In honor of the second anniversary of the attacks, he has increasingly tried to link Iraq to September 11. They are not connected at all. Saddam never did anything to us. Bush is a warmonger who is using 9/11 to justify the mess in Iraq."

What do you think about that kind of talk, Cynthia?

TUCKER: Well, it doesn't surprise me that the president continues to link Saddam Hussein, Iraq and 9/11. He did that constantly before the war, as did much of his cabinet, and even though there is absolutely no evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11.

What is more interesting about the president's strategy is that now, increasingly, he's tending to link 9/11 to everything. When he's talking about jobs and unemployment, he brings up 9/11. When he talks about drilling in Alaska, he brings up 9/11.

And so, I think that because he was seen as a successful commander-in-chief right after September 11, he's trying to carry that good feeling throughout the election campaign.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Martha.

ZOLLER: I couldn't disagree more. Energy creation is related to 9/11, because if we are less dependent upon foreign oil, we have more maneuverability. Terrorism is the issue that came out of 9/11, not just who attacked us on 9/11. Saddam Hussein clearly supported terrorism. Iraq supported terrorism. What's happening here now in Iraq is part of that.

And do you know what? I agree with Jack Kelly (ph), who said, I would rather have them fighting prepared soldiers in Iraq than hitting men and women in Chicago. And they are fighting the terrorists on their own terms in Iraq right now.

BLITZER: The world did change, though, Cynthia, you have to admit, after 9/11.

TUCKER: Absolutely. I mean, I think most Americans supported President Bush when he went to war in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden. He had not only the support of all Americans, but the support of much of the world as well.

But Iraq presented something altogether different. And Martha and I disagree on this. Iraq presented no imminent threat. We talk about facing all of these terrorists now. So, what? Was the strategy to get them all together in one place so that we could kill them all? It's not going to work, because Iraq is being used as a recruiting tool.

More and more of these foreign fighters are coming in Iraq just because we are there.

BLITZER: Yes, take a look at this cartoon. Mike Lukavich (ph) has a good cartoon, provocative as always, in today's paper. Let's put it up on the screen, and we can show our viewers. There is a comment coming from the TV screen, "America's invasion of Iraq has created more converts to terrorism. Mission accomplished." Then you see the guy sitting on the couch, saying "Is that Osama bin Laden in a flight suit?"

I mean, that's a pretty strong cartoon. It suggests, of course, that what the U.S. did in Iraq is precisely what Osama bin Laden wanted, to create a magnet for terrorists to come in and regroup.

ZOLLER: The problem with terrorism, though, is you don't have an iron-clad connection until we have an event like September 11. I mean, you can't deny that there were things that led us -- if you look at the September 11 report -- there were lots of things that maybe made us think that way. But you don't have an iron-clad terrorist connection until you have a terrorist attack. We don't want that.

The 9/11 report put out by Congress was the best case for pre- emption, although Iraq was not pre-emption, but is the best case for pre-emption for terrorism I have ever read.

BLITZER: So, when Condi Rice, Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security advisor, said on "LATE EDITION" a year ago, our Sunday program, that the Bush administration doesn't want that smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud, you don't think she went too far?

ZOLLER: No, I think she went too far. And I think the thing we always have to realize is that when we look at these kinds of issues that we've got to make sure that we hold the president accountable. But I do believe that we've got to prevent terrorism.

BLITZER: Did...

ZOLLER: And you never get credit for what you prevent. You only get credit for what you don't prevent.

BLITZER: Did Dr. Rice go too far?

TUCKER: Absolutely. Absolutely. Those were the scare tactics that they used to justify an invasion of Iraq. And the problem with the strategy is we're not safer. If we were going to prevent terrorist attacks, we have not done that. There are terrorists not only coming into Iraq, but Osama bin Laden, as far as we know, is still alive. Al Qaeda has been crippled, but not destroyed.

ZOLLER: But, Cynthia...

TUCKER: And so, we are not safer...

ZOLLER: Cynthia...

TUCKER: ... for having invaded Iraq.

ZOLLER: When on 9/11, did you believe it was likely that we'd go two years and not have another attack on our soil? Most people did not. We have gone two years without an attack on our soil. That, in my mind, is a success. And we have broken up al Qaeda. We have moved forward.

And you know what? It's not perfect, because war is not perfect. When we went into Germany, we didn't expect that there were going to be ovens in Auschwitz, but we found that out later. That's why you have to trust your commander-in-chief, and I think it's clear you don't and I do, and that's the difference.

TUCKER: Indeed. But what in the world does Germany have to do with this?

ZOLLER: It's a war.

TUCKER: We fought a world war against an enemy. And, in fact, occupation was much better planned, and when we went into Germany and Japan as occupation forces, there was not a single enemy attack on U.S. soldiers during the occupation. So, this is entirely different. We knew we were at war against Germany and Japan. The Japanese...

ZOLLER: But Germany didn't attack us.

BLITZER: All right, we're getting...

ZOLLER: I don't want to get -- I'm sorry.

BLITZER: We're getting off on a tangent. We're going to...

ZOLLER: But history is important.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to have some more time. We've got viewers lining up. They want to ask you questions, and we have more e-mails. Stay tuned. We're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, we'll also talk about the Middle East. Should Israel expel Yasser Arafat right now? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with two guests here at the CNN Center in Atlanta, Martha Zoller and Cynthia Tucker.

We've got a caller, William, standing by in Texas. You're on the air. William, go ahead with your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our government says that if you harbor a terrorist, you're a terrorist. What's the difference between us going after Saddam Hussein and bin Laden, and Israel going after Arafat?

BLITZER: All right, well, that's a question a lot of people are asking, Cynthia.

TUCKER: Is Arafat a terrorist? What's the definition? What -- he has been elected as a representative of the Palestinian people. Do I trust him? Absolutely not. Do I think he encourages terrorism? Absolutely.

The question for the Israeli government, though, I think, is: Will it make Israelis safer if they go after Yasser Arafat? And I don't think it will. I think it will just make him a martyr and, again, feed terrorism.

BLITZER: Martha?

ZOLLER: Arafat has been the person that's pulled the rug under all of the Middle East progress that's been made for the last 10 years. You showed the picture in your last segment of the people shaking hands. I think Israel probably made a mistake in saying we're going to expel Arafat, because it did mobilize the Palestinian people.

But they do have a right to defend themselves against terrorism, and blowing up people in a coffee shop is terrorism. And I think we all can agree on that.

BLITZER: What should President Bush be doing right now at this critical juncture in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

TUCKER: Well, let me just say that I think that we are in a terrible predicament in the Middle East at the moment. And I feel very pessimistic about any long-term solution for a while to come now, because things just seem to be getting worse.

However, I hope President Bush will get together with Ariel Sharon and the new Palestinian prime minister and try, once again, to encourage both men to make some concessions for peace.

BLITZER: What about that?

ZOLLER: Well, and, of course, Abbas tried to do that, and he wasn't able to do that. I think the president does have to stand back right now and do things behind the scenes and more diplomacy. But it's going to take a long way. I mean, this is a major setback today, Wolf, and I think that the president is going to have to work hard on it. But it will be more behind the scenes right now. Things have got to settle down a little bit.

BLITZER: And as someone who has covered the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for 30 years, I can tell you, as bad as it is right now, it could easily get a whole lot worse.

Stand by, ladies. We're going to continue our conversation.

I want to get to that videotape of Osama bin Laden, do a little analysis of what it tells us, what we know, what we don't know. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We have time for a little bit more analysis. Martha, Osama bin Laden showing up with Ayman al-Zawahiri, his top lieutenant, on this videotape, Al-Jazeera releases it. It's almost on the second anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, almost they want to rub it in President Bush's face.

ZOLLER: It's annoying. It's extremely annoying to have this show up. I think he looks younger, too. I agree with you. He looks younger. He looks like -- I don't know when this was made. But it is. It's thumb in the nose. It's not going to make any difference in the outcome of the war on terrorism, especially if he's not around anymore and this is just a tape. But it is a thumb in the nose to the president, and one could expect that this would happen, because this is what he does.

BLITZER: The downside, though, is that usually after the release, Cynthia, of these kinds of tapes, as you well know, there always is some sort of huge terrorist, attempt at least against the U.S. And presumably, that's why Homeland Security officials, national security officials, are in this high alert mode right now.

TUCKER: Absolutely. Absolutely. We don't know what they are planning, where they are planning it. It is absolutely clear, again, that al Qaeda has been crippled, but it hasn't been destroyed.

The other thing about this tape is it's an effective propaganda tool. Whether Osama is well at the moment or not, seeing his face on video, his followers are all being encouraged to go into Iraq. It fuels the jihad.

BLITZER: It mobilizes a lot of that base. Even if it's old or new, the perception is he's still around, he's calling some shots.

TUCKER: Exactly.

BLITZER: And it will energize some of those crazies out there.

ZOLLER: But interesting, you rarely ever see the two of them together. He and his lieutenant, you rarely see them together. But at the same time, it's... BLITZER: Well, we saw them together in that tape.

ZOLLER: In the tape, that's right.

BLITZER: But that tape could be very, very old. Martha Zoller, thanks very much for joining us.

ZOLLER: Thank you.

BLITZER: Cynthia, always good to have you. Good to be here in Atlanta. See you guys in person.

TUCKER: Thanks.

BLITZER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired September 12, 2003 - 12:38   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Plenty of hot topics to pick from today, starting with Iraq and the president's policies coming under some increasing criticism, while his poll numbers are also heading south. Also, another potentially explosive turn of events in the Middle East, and Osama bin Laden in that just-released videotape full of threats.
Joining us now, two guests here at the CNN Center, Martha Zoller, WDUN radio talk show host, and Cynthia Tucker, she's the editorial page editor of "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution."

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Martha, the president seems -- the poll numbers seem to be going down and down, and down, that job approval rating. How vulnerable is he going into the re-election campaign?

MARTHA ZOLLER, WDUN RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, the interesting thing to look at is that at same point, President Reagan was at 47 percent and President Clinton was at 44 percent. Interestingly enough, the president's father was the one that had the high approval ratings a year out from the elections. He's been getting bashed by the Democratic candidates, and that's what they're strategy is. Terry McAuliffe said that in the "Christian Science Monitor" yesterday.

But he is not really responding. So, I would expect poll numbers to be down. But, of course, he's vulnerable. Every president is vulnerable. The minute you think that you're not vulnerable is exactly when you are.

BLITZER: Do you think he's vulnerable, Cynthia?

CYNTHIA TUCKER, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": I think he's vulnerable, and it's not the Democratic candidates who are making him vulnerable. There are two major issues: Iraq, which hasn't turned out nearly as well as the American public had been led to expect, and the economy.

The economy is in awful shape. We've got a jobless recovery, if, in fact, that could be called a recovery. And I think that is troubling average Americans much more than either the president or the Congress had expected.

BLITZER: It's one thing to have -- as you well know, Martha, it's one thing to have improved economic growth, but if it's not translated into creation of jobs, the American public is still going to be angry. ZOLLER: Absolutely. And job creation is typically the last indicator to come along. But this one, admittedly, has been much slower than even we would expect. Technology jobs that we thought were going to be created at the end of this technology bubble in 1998 and 1999 has not happened. They're going overseas.

I think that one of the critical issues that the president must address for conservatives, his base, is going to be: What is he going do about the technical jobs that are going to India, Pakistan and around? There are 500,000 jobs that are doing that right now that are jobs Americans could do. Those are the issues that he needs to address when he's on the road, the domestic issues...

BLITZER: All right...

ZOLLER: Because conservatives are with him on the war.

BLITZER: He's a free trader, so it's unlikely he's going to start re-thinking...

ZOLLER: But then he needs to explain his point of view on it.

BLITZER: Right. Let's get to some e-mails. We've got one from Karen in California: "Why does Bush keep using the tactics of fear? In honor of the second anniversary of the attacks, he has increasingly tried to link Iraq to September 11. They are not connected at all. Saddam never did anything to us. Bush is a warmonger who is using 9/11 to justify the mess in Iraq."

What do you think about that kind of talk, Cynthia?

TUCKER: Well, it doesn't surprise me that the president continues to link Saddam Hussein, Iraq and 9/11. He did that constantly before the war, as did much of his cabinet, and even though there is absolutely no evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11.

What is more interesting about the president's strategy is that now, increasingly, he's tending to link 9/11 to everything. When he's talking about jobs and unemployment, he brings up 9/11. When he talks about drilling in Alaska, he brings up 9/11.

And so, I think that because he was seen as a successful commander-in-chief right after September 11, he's trying to carry that good feeling throughout the election campaign.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Martha.

ZOLLER: I couldn't disagree more. Energy creation is related to 9/11, because if we are less dependent upon foreign oil, we have more maneuverability. Terrorism is the issue that came out of 9/11, not just who attacked us on 9/11. Saddam Hussein clearly supported terrorism. Iraq supported terrorism. What's happening here now in Iraq is part of that.

And do you know what? I agree with Jack Kelly (ph), who said, I would rather have them fighting prepared soldiers in Iraq than hitting men and women in Chicago. And they are fighting the terrorists on their own terms in Iraq right now.

BLITZER: The world did change, though, Cynthia, you have to admit, after 9/11.

TUCKER: Absolutely. I mean, I think most Americans supported President Bush when he went to war in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden. He had not only the support of all Americans, but the support of much of the world as well.

But Iraq presented something altogether different. And Martha and I disagree on this. Iraq presented no imminent threat. We talk about facing all of these terrorists now. So, what? Was the strategy to get them all together in one place so that we could kill them all? It's not going to work, because Iraq is being used as a recruiting tool.

More and more of these foreign fighters are coming in Iraq just because we are there.

BLITZER: Yes, take a look at this cartoon. Mike Lukavich (ph) has a good cartoon, provocative as always, in today's paper. Let's put it up on the screen, and we can show our viewers. There is a comment coming from the TV screen, "America's invasion of Iraq has created more converts to terrorism. Mission accomplished." Then you see the guy sitting on the couch, saying "Is that Osama bin Laden in a flight suit?"

I mean, that's a pretty strong cartoon. It suggests, of course, that what the U.S. did in Iraq is precisely what Osama bin Laden wanted, to create a magnet for terrorists to come in and regroup.

ZOLLER: The problem with terrorism, though, is you don't have an iron-clad connection until we have an event like September 11. I mean, you can't deny that there were things that led us -- if you look at the September 11 report -- there were lots of things that maybe made us think that way. But you don't have an iron-clad terrorist connection until you have a terrorist attack. We don't want that.

The 9/11 report put out by Congress was the best case for pre- emption, although Iraq was not pre-emption, but is the best case for pre-emption for terrorism I have ever read.

BLITZER: So, when Condi Rice, Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security advisor, said on "LATE EDITION" a year ago, our Sunday program, that the Bush administration doesn't want that smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud, you don't think she went too far?

ZOLLER: No, I think she went too far. And I think the thing we always have to realize is that when we look at these kinds of issues that we've got to make sure that we hold the president accountable. But I do believe that we've got to prevent terrorism.

BLITZER: Did...

ZOLLER: And you never get credit for what you prevent. You only get credit for what you don't prevent.

BLITZER: Did Dr. Rice go too far?

TUCKER: Absolutely. Absolutely. Those were the scare tactics that they used to justify an invasion of Iraq. And the problem with the strategy is we're not safer. If we were going to prevent terrorist attacks, we have not done that. There are terrorists not only coming into Iraq, but Osama bin Laden, as far as we know, is still alive. Al Qaeda has been crippled, but not destroyed.

ZOLLER: But, Cynthia...

TUCKER: And so, we are not safer...

ZOLLER: Cynthia...

TUCKER: ... for having invaded Iraq.

ZOLLER: When on 9/11, did you believe it was likely that we'd go two years and not have another attack on our soil? Most people did not. We have gone two years without an attack on our soil. That, in my mind, is a success. And we have broken up al Qaeda. We have moved forward.

And you know what? It's not perfect, because war is not perfect. When we went into Germany, we didn't expect that there were going to be ovens in Auschwitz, but we found that out later. That's why you have to trust your commander-in-chief, and I think it's clear you don't and I do, and that's the difference.

TUCKER: Indeed. But what in the world does Germany have to do with this?

ZOLLER: It's a war.

TUCKER: We fought a world war against an enemy. And, in fact, occupation was much better planned, and when we went into Germany and Japan as occupation forces, there was not a single enemy attack on U.S. soldiers during the occupation. So, this is entirely different. We knew we were at war against Germany and Japan. The Japanese...

ZOLLER: But Germany didn't attack us.

BLITZER: All right, we're getting...

ZOLLER: I don't want to get -- I'm sorry.

BLITZER: We're getting off on a tangent. We're going to...

ZOLLER: But history is important.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to have some more time. We've got viewers lining up. They want to ask you questions, and we have more e-mails. Stay tuned. We're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, we'll also talk about the Middle East. Should Israel expel Yasser Arafat right now? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with two guests here at the CNN Center in Atlanta, Martha Zoller and Cynthia Tucker.

We've got a caller, William, standing by in Texas. You're on the air. William, go ahead with your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our government says that if you harbor a terrorist, you're a terrorist. What's the difference between us going after Saddam Hussein and bin Laden, and Israel going after Arafat?

BLITZER: All right, well, that's a question a lot of people are asking, Cynthia.

TUCKER: Is Arafat a terrorist? What's the definition? What -- he has been elected as a representative of the Palestinian people. Do I trust him? Absolutely not. Do I think he encourages terrorism? Absolutely.

The question for the Israeli government, though, I think, is: Will it make Israelis safer if they go after Yasser Arafat? And I don't think it will. I think it will just make him a martyr and, again, feed terrorism.

BLITZER: Martha?

ZOLLER: Arafat has been the person that's pulled the rug under all of the Middle East progress that's been made for the last 10 years. You showed the picture in your last segment of the people shaking hands. I think Israel probably made a mistake in saying we're going to expel Arafat, because it did mobilize the Palestinian people.

But they do have a right to defend themselves against terrorism, and blowing up people in a coffee shop is terrorism. And I think we all can agree on that.

BLITZER: What should President Bush be doing right now at this critical juncture in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

TUCKER: Well, let me just say that I think that we are in a terrible predicament in the Middle East at the moment. And I feel very pessimistic about any long-term solution for a while to come now, because things just seem to be getting worse.

However, I hope President Bush will get together with Ariel Sharon and the new Palestinian prime minister and try, once again, to encourage both men to make some concessions for peace.

BLITZER: What about that?

ZOLLER: Well, and, of course, Abbas tried to do that, and he wasn't able to do that. I think the president does have to stand back right now and do things behind the scenes and more diplomacy. But it's going to take a long way. I mean, this is a major setback today, Wolf, and I think that the president is going to have to work hard on it. But it will be more behind the scenes right now. Things have got to settle down a little bit.

BLITZER: And as someone who has covered the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for 30 years, I can tell you, as bad as it is right now, it could easily get a whole lot worse.

Stand by, ladies. We're going to continue our conversation.

I want to get to that videotape of Osama bin Laden, do a little analysis of what it tells us, what we know, what we don't know. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We have time for a little bit more analysis. Martha, Osama bin Laden showing up with Ayman al-Zawahiri, his top lieutenant, on this videotape, Al-Jazeera releases it. It's almost on the second anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, almost they want to rub it in President Bush's face.

ZOLLER: It's annoying. It's extremely annoying to have this show up. I think he looks younger, too. I agree with you. He looks younger. He looks like -- I don't know when this was made. But it is. It's thumb in the nose. It's not going to make any difference in the outcome of the war on terrorism, especially if he's not around anymore and this is just a tape. But it is a thumb in the nose to the president, and one could expect that this would happen, because this is what he does.

BLITZER: The downside, though, is that usually after the release, Cynthia, of these kinds of tapes, as you well know, there always is some sort of huge terrorist, attempt at least against the U.S. And presumably, that's why Homeland Security officials, national security officials, are in this high alert mode right now.

TUCKER: Absolutely. Absolutely. We don't know what they are planning, where they are planning it. It is absolutely clear, again, that al Qaeda has been crippled, but it hasn't been destroyed.

The other thing about this tape is it's an effective propaganda tool. Whether Osama is well at the moment or not, seeing his face on video, his followers are all being encouraged to go into Iraq. It fuels the jihad.

BLITZER: It mobilizes a lot of that base. Even if it's old or new, the perception is he's still around, he's calling some shots.

TUCKER: Exactly.

BLITZER: And it will energize some of those crazies out there.

ZOLLER: But interesting, you rarely ever see the two of them together. He and his lieutenant, you rarely see them together. But at the same time, it's... BLITZER: Well, we saw them together in that tape.

ZOLLER: In the tape, that's right.

BLITZER: But that tape could be very, very old. Martha Zoller, thanks very much for joining us.

ZOLLER: Thank you.

BLITZER: Cynthia, always good to have you. Good to be here in Atlanta. See you guys in person.

TUCKER: Thanks.

BLITZER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.