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Interview With David Isby

Aired September 22, 2003 - 15:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, is in U.S. custody. And he is talking. Among other things, Mohammed says the 9/11 hijackings were planned for five years. And he said the original plan called for hijacking ten planes, five on each U.S. coast.
David Isby is a defense analyst who has written extensively about al Qaeda, and he joins us now from Washington. Mr. Isby, good to see you again.

DAVID ISBY, DEFENSE & TERRORISM ANALYST: Good afternoon.

O'BRIEN: What was the biggest surprise -- was any of this a surprise to you first of all?

ISBY: Perhaps the most important thing we learned is sort of the -- how the plan developed and also its links going back to the early '90s, Ramsey Yusef and the first World Trade Center bombing. We learned that this did not originate with bin Laden himself but rather Yusef and his uncle, Shaikh Khalid Mohammed (sic), brought this to bin Laden and sought support for it.

O'BRIEN: Were you surprised, though, at his account of how much say-so bin Laden had on the specific details of the plot that unfolded?

ISBY: No, not at all. Remember, bin Laden calls himself the contractor. He's the person who takes the original outside idea and has to match it with resources and capabilities. That's why this grandiose plan for a ten-aircraft hijacking attack on both coasts, also hijackings across the Pacific, was pared down to a five-aircraft attack. And what took place, of course, was four aircraft.

O'BRIEN: And so -- because, you know, the assumption that many of us have had post-9/11 is that these al Qaeda cells operate in a very autonomous manner. As I read Mohammed's -- the account of Mohammed's interrogation, you get the sense that there's much more a chain of command up and down the stream there.

ISBY: Well, if not chain of command then interconnectivity. And I think that's one of the reasons why they let these reports go out to the Associated Press, to let the al Qaeda cells know that he's one of a number of people who were talking, and they're in danger of being rolled up.

We now have Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Other reports of other senior people, both al Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence, talking elsewhere. So I think that's one of the reasons they're keeping the pressure on.

O'BRIEN: What about his veracity, though? What incentive does Mohammed have to speak the truth at this juncture?

ISBY: Fairly limited. However, there have been enough other sources that they can put together, even half-truths, outright deceptions and see if they can either be verified or contradict what they've heard from other people.

So it's a pyramid. As you get more and more people, even if they are trying to lie and deceive, you can eventually find a pattern and see who reconfirms other sources.

O'BRIEN: Depending on which report you read of this interrogation, there is some sense that perhaps the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis may or may not have something to do with al Qaeda's desires to drive a wedge between Saudi Arabia and the United States. What's your take on that?

ISBY: Well, it is quite likely. Certainly the presence of U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia has always played a major role in al Qaeda's rhetoric. So you see that this was an important move for bin Laden to make Saudis involved and perhaps to drive a U.S.-Saudi wedge.

Also those -- because those are the people he may have known best, he may have thought those are people he can trust to carry out the suicide missions.

David Isby is a defense and terrorism analyst. Thanks very much for being with us today. Appreciate it.

ISBY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 22, 2003 - 15:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, is in U.S. custody. And he is talking. Among other things, Mohammed says the 9/11 hijackings were planned for five years. And he said the original plan called for hijacking ten planes, five on each U.S. coast.
David Isby is a defense analyst who has written extensively about al Qaeda, and he joins us now from Washington. Mr. Isby, good to see you again.

DAVID ISBY, DEFENSE & TERRORISM ANALYST: Good afternoon.

O'BRIEN: What was the biggest surprise -- was any of this a surprise to you first of all?

ISBY: Perhaps the most important thing we learned is sort of the -- how the plan developed and also its links going back to the early '90s, Ramsey Yusef and the first World Trade Center bombing. We learned that this did not originate with bin Laden himself but rather Yusef and his uncle, Shaikh Khalid Mohammed (sic), brought this to bin Laden and sought support for it.

O'BRIEN: Were you surprised, though, at his account of how much say-so bin Laden had on the specific details of the plot that unfolded?

ISBY: No, not at all. Remember, bin Laden calls himself the contractor. He's the person who takes the original outside idea and has to match it with resources and capabilities. That's why this grandiose plan for a ten-aircraft hijacking attack on both coasts, also hijackings across the Pacific, was pared down to a five-aircraft attack. And what took place, of course, was four aircraft.

O'BRIEN: And so -- because, you know, the assumption that many of us have had post-9/11 is that these al Qaeda cells operate in a very autonomous manner. As I read Mohammed's -- the account of Mohammed's interrogation, you get the sense that there's much more a chain of command up and down the stream there.

ISBY: Well, if not chain of command then interconnectivity. And I think that's one of the reasons why they let these reports go out to the Associated Press, to let the al Qaeda cells know that he's one of a number of people who were talking, and they're in danger of being rolled up.

We now have Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Other reports of other senior people, both al Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence, talking elsewhere. So I think that's one of the reasons they're keeping the pressure on.

O'BRIEN: What about his veracity, though? What incentive does Mohammed have to speak the truth at this juncture?

ISBY: Fairly limited. However, there have been enough other sources that they can put together, even half-truths, outright deceptions and see if they can either be verified or contradict what they've heard from other people.

So it's a pyramid. As you get more and more people, even if they are trying to lie and deceive, you can eventually find a pattern and see who reconfirms other sources.

O'BRIEN: Depending on which report you read of this interrogation, there is some sense that perhaps the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis may or may not have something to do with al Qaeda's desires to drive a wedge between Saudi Arabia and the United States. What's your take on that?

ISBY: Well, it is quite likely. Certainly the presence of U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia has always played a major role in al Qaeda's rhetoric. So you see that this was an important move for bin Laden to make Saudis involved and perhaps to drive a U.S.-Saudi wedge.

Also those -- because those are the people he may have known best, he may have thought those are people he can trust to carry out the suicide missions.

David Isby is a defense and terrorism analyst. Thanks very much for being with us today. Appreciate it.

ISBY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com