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Interview With Karen Russell
Aired October 10, 2003 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Kobe Bryant's lawyer played hard ball in court yesterday, to say the least. But did Pamela Mackey go too far during the hearing? Karen Russell, a trial lawyer, a motivational speaker. And she also happens to be the daughter of Bill Russell, appropo of nothing except we wanted to tell you that, joins us now from Seattle. Karen, good to have you with us.
KAREN RUSSELL, TRIAL LAWYER: Thank you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: A lot of buzz today about Ms. Mackey's decision to utter the name of the accuser in court. Let's set the record straight on what the law says, what the custom is, and what the courtesy might have been.
RUSSELL: Well, you know the gag order actually applies to the media. And so in a trial case, you're allowed to use the name of the accuser in the courtroom. The judge extends the ban on using her name as a courtesy to her. So Mackey did in no way violated any laws or any ethical canons by using the accuser's name in court. She may have pissed off the judge though.
O'BRIEN: I should say so. And that's probably as good a term as any to describe it.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: With that in mind, with that thought about the judge being off, what happens when this hearing picks up the next time and things are uttered once again perhaps? Do things get really ugly?
RUSSELL: Well I think the bigger bombshell was the three guys in three day. And there are a lot of legal analysts on the air saying that that violates the Colorado rape shield law.
And as I read the statute, it doesn't, because you're allowed to talk about another potential partner. If she had a partner or three partners or two other partners within the time of this alleged attack, you're allowed to bring that into the courtroom and you're allowed to cross-examine the witness using that information.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk a little bit about the defense strategy. There's an awful lot of talk beforehand on how it would -- generally speaking it is ill conceived for somebody on the defense side to suggest going through these pre-trial hearings and allowing all this negative publicity to come out in advance of a trial. Better to delay it and get into trial mode and discovery and all that stuff. In this case, what the defense did was, let's do the hearing, got out as much laundry, dirty or otherwise, as it could on the accuser. And then it got shut down. It sounds like, if you planned it would be a good strategy. Was it planned?
RUSSELL: Oh, absolutely. I mean I think Pamela Mackey is a terrific attorney and she knew exactly what she was doing.
O'BRIEN: All right, so this was orchestrated as far as you see it?
RUSSELL: Yes. And I think, I mean, I was one of those analysts who said there's no way there's going to be a preliminary hearing. And I guess we didn't know about -- I imagined that the defense has these witnesses at the ready to say they had sex with the young lady.
O'BRIEN: So when the hearing resumes, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) exists that they'll be the other side of all this. Is it possible the defense could stand up and say, You know what? We don't want to go any further with the hearing? Or once they start, they've got to finish.
RUSSELL: Once they start, they have to finish.
O'BRIEN: OK, so are we likely to hear -- clearly the prosecution's side will come out in all this. And the question then is, how is the jury pool potentially affected by all of what we're hearing?
RUSSELL: Well, I do think that this is going to help the defense. If the defense wants a change in venue, I think this may have been a tactic to achieving that goal because now they'll know, the jury will know about the potentiality of these two guys. And that might be an argument to move the trial out of fairness actually to the accuser.
O'BRIEN: Karen Russell, a trial attorney. And as we said before, appropo of nothing else, the daughter of Boston Celtics legend Bill Russell. Thanks very much for being with us. It's great to see you.
RUSSELL: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Come on by any old time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 10, 2003 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Kobe Bryant's lawyer played hard ball in court yesterday, to say the least. But did Pamela Mackey go too far during the hearing? Karen Russell, a trial lawyer, a motivational speaker. And she also happens to be the daughter of Bill Russell, appropo of nothing except we wanted to tell you that, joins us now from Seattle. Karen, good to have you with us.
KAREN RUSSELL, TRIAL LAWYER: Thank you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: A lot of buzz today about Ms. Mackey's decision to utter the name of the accuser in court. Let's set the record straight on what the law says, what the custom is, and what the courtesy might have been.
RUSSELL: Well, you know the gag order actually applies to the media. And so in a trial case, you're allowed to use the name of the accuser in the courtroom. The judge extends the ban on using her name as a courtesy to her. So Mackey did in no way violated any laws or any ethical canons by using the accuser's name in court. She may have pissed off the judge though.
O'BRIEN: I should say so. And that's probably as good a term as any to describe it.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: With that in mind, with that thought about the judge being off, what happens when this hearing picks up the next time and things are uttered once again perhaps? Do things get really ugly?
RUSSELL: Well I think the bigger bombshell was the three guys in three day. And there are a lot of legal analysts on the air saying that that violates the Colorado rape shield law.
And as I read the statute, it doesn't, because you're allowed to talk about another potential partner. If she had a partner or three partners or two other partners within the time of this alleged attack, you're allowed to bring that into the courtroom and you're allowed to cross-examine the witness using that information.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk a little bit about the defense strategy. There's an awful lot of talk beforehand on how it would -- generally speaking it is ill conceived for somebody on the defense side to suggest going through these pre-trial hearings and allowing all this negative publicity to come out in advance of a trial. Better to delay it and get into trial mode and discovery and all that stuff. In this case, what the defense did was, let's do the hearing, got out as much laundry, dirty or otherwise, as it could on the accuser. And then it got shut down. It sounds like, if you planned it would be a good strategy. Was it planned?
RUSSELL: Oh, absolutely. I mean I think Pamela Mackey is a terrific attorney and she knew exactly what she was doing.
O'BRIEN: All right, so this was orchestrated as far as you see it?
RUSSELL: Yes. And I think, I mean, I was one of those analysts who said there's no way there's going to be a preliminary hearing. And I guess we didn't know about -- I imagined that the defense has these witnesses at the ready to say they had sex with the young lady.
O'BRIEN: So when the hearing resumes, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) exists that they'll be the other side of all this. Is it possible the defense could stand up and say, You know what? We don't want to go any further with the hearing? Or once they start, they've got to finish.
RUSSELL: Once they start, they have to finish.
O'BRIEN: OK, so are we likely to hear -- clearly the prosecution's side will come out in all this. And the question then is, how is the jury pool potentially affected by all of what we're hearing?
RUSSELL: Well, I do think that this is going to help the defense. If the defense wants a change in venue, I think this may have been a tactic to achieving that goal because now they'll know, the jury will know about the potentiality of these two guys. And that might be an argument to move the trial out of fairness actually to the accuser.
O'BRIEN: Karen Russell, a trial attorney. And as we said before, appropo of nothing else, the daughter of Boston Celtics legend Bill Russell. Thanks very much for being with us. It's great to see you.
RUSSELL: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Come on by any old time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
