Return to Transcripts main page
Live From...
Kobe Bryant Case: Legal Analysis
Aired October 15, 2003 - 14:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: What could today's revelations mean in the Kobe Bryant case? We'll go back to Colorado now and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, I'm just curious, are you bothered by all these details and these, I guess, very specific details that we're having to report? Does it make you feel uncomfortable at all.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYSIS: You know, I have to say, Kyra, it really doesn't. This to me, the difference between today and last week to me was the difference between hard, aggressive defense, playing by the rules and sleazy criminal defense. I thought last week it was sleazy, using her name, making insinuations about her sexual history. Today it was clear, effective, real cross-examination about issues that go to the heart of this case.
I mean, you know, I used to have a professor in law school who used to say, some people think some crimes are so serious that not even innocence is a defense. Innocence is a defense. And if he's innocent, his lawyers deserve to be able to point that out.
PHILLIPS: So how strong is the statement, there were no marks on Kobe? When you think of the situation, you're talking about a pretty huge athlete and a petite young gal.
TOOBIN: You know, it is a typical -- not a typical -- it is an example of evidence that jurors could factor in with a lot of other evidence. You know, the fact that there are no marks on Kobe Bryant doesn't mean he's innocent, by any means. But it is something that the defense will build on.
Look, he's 6'7. She's about a foot shooter. He physically dominates her. It's not a terrific surprise that there are no marks on him, but if there had been lots of scratches on him, that would have been very important prosecution evidence. Again, it's not dispositive. It doesn't indicate which way this case will go. All by itself, It is certainly a helpful fact for the defense.
PHILLIPS: When you were hearing all these things, all these statements being made by Pamela Mackey about the accuser, did you feel sorry for the accuser at all?
TOOBIN: I sure did, because, you know, one of the great innovations in the legal business for -- in the 1970s was the introduction of rape shield laws, which tries to have rape victims not put on trial themselves. But Gary Tuchman saw something interesting in the courtroom today. On Pamela Mackey's notes that she was using to cross-examine, on every page in big black ink, she wrote "the accuser," reminding herself, apparently, not to keep using the accuser's name, which she didn't do today. She played by the rules today. So I think Pamela Mackey, quite appropriately felt a little ashamed of her behavior last week, and in fairness to her, she corrected it.
PHILLIPS: Interesting.
CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Always great to have you. Thanks, Jeffrey
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 15, 2003 - 14:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: What could today's revelations mean in the Kobe Bryant case? We'll go back to Colorado now and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, I'm just curious, are you bothered by all these details and these, I guess, very specific details that we're having to report? Does it make you feel uncomfortable at all.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYSIS: You know, I have to say, Kyra, it really doesn't. This to me, the difference between today and last week to me was the difference between hard, aggressive defense, playing by the rules and sleazy criminal defense. I thought last week it was sleazy, using her name, making insinuations about her sexual history. Today it was clear, effective, real cross-examination about issues that go to the heart of this case.
I mean, you know, I used to have a professor in law school who used to say, some people think some crimes are so serious that not even innocence is a defense. Innocence is a defense. And if he's innocent, his lawyers deserve to be able to point that out.
PHILLIPS: So how strong is the statement, there were no marks on Kobe? When you think of the situation, you're talking about a pretty huge athlete and a petite young gal.
TOOBIN: You know, it is a typical -- not a typical -- it is an example of evidence that jurors could factor in with a lot of other evidence. You know, the fact that there are no marks on Kobe Bryant doesn't mean he's innocent, by any means. But it is something that the defense will build on.
Look, he's 6'7. She's about a foot shooter. He physically dominates her. It's not a terrific surprise that there are no marks on him, but if there had been lots of scratches on him, that would have been very important prosecution evidence. Again, it's not dispositive. It doesn't indicate which way this case will go. All by itself, It is certainly a helpful fact for the defense.
PHILLIPS: When you were hearing all these things, all these statements being made by Pamela Mackey about the accuser, did you feel sorry for the accuser at all?
TOOBIN: I sure did, because, you know, one of the great innovations in the legal business for -- in the 1970s was the introduction of rape shield laws, which tries to have rape victims not put on trial themselves. But Gary Tuchman saw something interesting in the courtroom today. On Pamela Mackey's notes that she was using to cross-examine, on every page in big black ink, she wrote "the accuser," reminding herself, apparently, not to keep using the accuser's name, which she didn't do today. She played by the rules today. So I think Pamela Mackey, quite appropriately felt a little ashamed of her behavior last week, and in fairness to her, she corrected it.
PHILLIPS: Interesting.
CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Always great to have you. Thanks, Jeffrey
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
