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Trial & Tribulation
Aired October 20, 2003 - 14:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: For some expert insight now into the sniper suspect trial and the tribulation of Kobe Bryant, let's turn to our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin He's in New York.
Jeff, thanks for sticking around with us.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about Kobe first. Slam dunk here? is he going to stand trial?
TOOBIN: I think so. I think there's virtually no chance the case will be thrown out at this point. Slam dunk to get a trial. By no means a slam dunk for a conviction. Completely different set of rules, completely different witnesses. Most importantly, the accuser herself will testify, as opposed to a detective summarizing her testimony, which is what we had at the preliminary hearing.
So yes, I think this case will be bound over, but the question of whether he'll be convicted totally separate issue. Can you imagine if he didn't stand trial, I can just imagine the media circus that would take place, all the analysts and everybody talking about this.
TOOBIN: Kyra, you're talking about me there there. Don't hurt me, Kyra.
Yes.
PHILLIPS: You will be talking about it, won't you, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: The good thing is, is that I've been wrong before, so it won't feel original. It won't be like, you know, the first time. But I'm pretty confident about this.
PHILLIPS: I don't think you're ever wrong. I would be very disappointed if you were. I read "The New Yorker."
All right, let's talk and John Allen Muhammad, surprising everybody, I guess, coming forward saying I'm going to defend myself. What's your reaction to -- could this just be judicial suicide for him?
TOOBIN: Well, it's obviously a terrible decision. People who represent themselves almost never win.
The interesting thing to me is how quickly the judge accepted his request to represent himself. If you recall in the Zacarias Moussaoui case, the man alleged of being one of the September 11 conspirators, the judge in that case ordered detailed psychiatric examinations before agreeing to let Moussaoui represent himself. Here, it was just sort of a spur of the moment thing.
I think probably the reason the judge acted so quickly is that there already has been a jury impaneled in the case, and he wanted to make sure that Muhammad couldn't subvert the process this late in the game.
But I do think it was perhaps a questionable decision by the judge, instead of taking a day or two to let Muhammad reflect on it, or have some examination. He just went ahead and let Muhammad represent himself.
PHILLIPS: What was interesting, we were reporting this earlier, that the judge said to him, you know, this isn't a good idea, you probably shouldn't do this, and then I'm thinking about the court appointed attorneys for John Muhammad. Are there any sort of ethical obligations on behalf of the court-appointed attorney and the judge when someone like this steps forward and makes a move like this, or is it sort of we can say something to him if we wanted to?
TOOBIN: Well, they are professionally obligated to give him advice up to the moment they are removed. Traditionally what happens is, once a persons himself, the former attorneys are represented as what's called stand-by attorneys, and that's what's happened her. His former attorneys will be in court, offering him advice, trying to give him some coaching to get through the process. But it's just a very different thing, even with standby attorneys, to have John Muhammad giving the opening statements, as opposed to the attorneys. And there's really not much a standby attorney can do when John Muhammad is just up there riffing on his own in his opening statement.
PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, we'll be talking a lot about these two case very soon. Thank you.
TOOBIN: See you, Kyra.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 20, 2003 - 14:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: For some expert insight now into the sniper suspect trial and the tribulation of Kobe Bryant, let's turn to our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin He's in New York.
Jeff, thanks for sticking around with us.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about Kobe first. Slam dunk here? is he going to stand trial?
TOOBIN: I think so. I think there's virtually no chance the case will be thrown out at this point. Slam dunk to get a trial. By no means a slam dunk for a conviction. Completely different set of rules, completely different witnesses. Most importantly, the accuser herself will testify, as opposed to a detective summarizing her testimony, which is what we had at the preliminary hearing.
So yes, I think this case will be bound over, but the question of whether he'll be convicted totally separate issue. Can you imagine if he didn't stand trial, I can just imagine the media circus that would take place, all the analysts and everybody talking about this.
TOOBIN: Kyra, you're talking about me there there. Don't hurt me, Kyra.
Yes.
PHILLIPS: You will be talking about it, won't you, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: The good thing is, is that I've been wrong before, so it won't feel original. It won't be like, you know, the first time. But I'm pretty confident about this.
PHILLIPS: I don't think you're ever wrong. I would be very disappointed if you were. I read "The New Yorker."
All right, let's talk and John Allen Muhammad, surprising everybody, I guess, coming forward saying I'm going to defend myself. What's your reaction to -- could this just be judicial suicide for him?
TOOBIN: Well, it's obviously a terrible decision. People who represent themselves almost never win.
The interesting thing to me is how quickly the judge accepted his request to represent himself. If you recall in the Zacarias Moussaoui case, the man alleged of being one of the September 11 conspirators, the judge in that case ordered detailed psychiatric examinations before agreeing to let Moussaoui represent himself. Here, it was just sort of a spur of the moment thing.
I think probably the reason the judge acted so quickly is that there already has been a jury impaneled in the case, and he wanted to make sure that Muhammad couldn't subvert the process this late in the game.
But I do think it was perhaps a questionable decision by the judge, instead of taking a day or two to let Muhammad reflect on it, or have some examination. He just went ahead and let Muhammad represent himself.
PHILLIPS: What was interesting, we were reporting this earlier, that the judge said to him, you know, this isn't a good idea, you probably shouldn't do this, and then I'm thinking about the court appointed attorneys for John Muhammad. Are there any sort of ethical obligations on behalf of the court-appointed attorney and the judge when someone like this steps forward and makes a move like this, or is it sort of we can say something to him if we wanted to?
TOOBIN: Well, they are professionally obligated to give him advice up to the moment they are removed. Traditionally what happens is, once a persons himself, the former attorneys are represented as what's called stand-by attorneys, and that's what's happened her. His former attorneys will be in court, offering him advice, trying to give him some coaching to get through the process. But it's just a very different thing, even with standby attorneys, to have John Muhammad giving the opening statements, as opposed to the attorneys. And there's really not much a standby attorney can do when John Muhammad is just up there riffing on his own in his opening statement.
PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, we'll be talking a lot about these two case very soon. Thank you.
TOOBIN: See you, Kyra.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
