Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

A Look at the Chinook

Aired November 03, 2003 - 13:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in one our experts to talk a little bit about the Chinook and what is very likely to have brought it down and explain a few things about how U.S. troops can try to thwart this kind of thing in the future. Brigadier General, retired, David Grange joining us from Chicago. Good to have you with us, General Grange.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, I appreciate it.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the Chinook helicopter, first of all, as we bring up statistics on it. It dates back to the early days of the Vietnam war. 1962, as I understand is when it first came in to use. Very slow, 150 miles an hour. Twin engine. Has a lot of carrying capability.

General Grange, is this helicopter too old and as a result, unsafe to be used right now?

GRANGE: No. I don't believe it's unsafe, Miles. It's an older developed helicopter, but it's been modified extensively up until just a few years ago and upgrades are constant on avionics and some of other means to enhance it since then. And so it's a very good helicopter.

O'BRIEN: David Grange, let's talk a little bit about what apparently brought it down. We're talking about a heat-seeking missile, most likely. And we know that because apparently whatever struck it, struck in the engine box area.

Take a look at some video which was captured in April when Special Forces got one of Saddam Hussein's palaces. This in fact was the Tharthar (ph) Palace.

I want to point your attention to that spot right there. That is the engine box as seen through infrared. That's almost as if you had a heat seeking missile eye's view of a helicopter. It makes it relatively easy to aim. Or is easy the right term, General Grange?

GRANGE: I don't think it's easy. To fire a surface-to-air missile, it takes a little bit of expertise. They're not that easy. Even our own take some training.

But, again, if it was the lucky shot, if it happened to be the right slant angle when the adversary engaged the coalition aircraft, then he could have got a hit. But it's not that easy. O'BRIEN: We're bringing up one of the possibilities, the SA-14 which comes from the old Soviet arsenal. There are other some other cousins of this, the SA-7 being one of them. Range of nearly three miles, could be fired from a shoulder or turret. Targets below 10,000. Entered service in '74.

Ideally suited, though, for fixed-wing aircraft, right?

GRANGE: Ideally suited for fixed-wing. This is applicable, though, to helicopters as well. The old SA-7 which is more the original type of Soviet type surface-to-air missiles were more for fixed-wing.

This is more capability knocking down a helicopter, more advanced technology. And to have these kind of surface-to-air missiles in country -- if in fact that's the case, which I think there is some -- it's more dangerous.

O'BRIEN: Upwards of 5,000 of them.

Let's take a look at some of the counter measures. We have an old animation we which we used during the war which I want to refresh for us. We used an A-7 Warthog as an example here. They fly low and slow.

And take a look here. As we freeze it right here, if you can lose the lower part of the screen. As you can see, it fits on the shoulder and you lock onto it with a conventional sighting. Does it have a tremendous amount of kick, General Grange?

GRANGE: No it does not.

O'BRIEN: OK, and let's advance the tape. As the surface-to-air missile is fired, it locks on to generally the exhaust of the engine, correct?

GRANGE: That's correct.

O'BRIEN: And what we're seeing here as this A-7 -- watch it deploy it's countermeasures -- what is typically used, as we roll it forward, are flares and chaff. Chaff being little pieces of aluminum. Basically if you go back to that surface-to-air missile view I showed you a little while ago, tries to give it a false heat signature, correct?

GRANGE: That's correct.

O'BRIEN: And does it work?

GRANGE: It does work. It's either done automatically through some kind of sensor system or it's done by control of a pilot, if in fact the aircraft has this capability.

O'BRIEN: All right. Going back to this shot, you'll remember as these Special Forces head up (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Take a look right down there. You can see how hot that back portion of the Chinook helicopter is there. Tell tale signature, the aiming point for that surface-to-air missile.

Finally, if you don't have those sorts of countermeasures -- some of these helicopters do, some do not -- what can a pilot, what can a crew do to try to avoid this?

GRANGE: You fly lower, you fly fast, you fly not a predetermined pattern. In other words, whereas a straight line from point A to B, but you fly different courses, segments of a flight route in order to get to your destination. But usually very slow, very fast.

O'BRIEN: General David Grange, always a pleasure. Appreciate your insights. Thanks for helping us understand this.

GRANGE: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired November 3, 2003 - 13:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in one our experts to talk a little bit about the Chinook and what is very likely to have brought it down and explain a few things about how U.S. troops can try to thwart this kind of thing in the future. Brigadier General, retired, David Grange joining us from Chicago. Good to have you with us, General Grange.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, I appreciate it.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the Chinook helicopter, first of all, as we bring up statistics on it. It dates back to the early days of the Vietnam war. 1962, as I understand is when it first came in to use. Very slow, 150 miles an hour. Twin engine. Has a lot of carrying capability.

General Grange, is this helicopter too old and as a result, unsafe to be used right now?

GRANGE: No. I don't believe it's unsafe, Miles. It's an older developed helicopter, but it's been modified extensively up until just a few years ago and upgrades are constant on avionics and some of other means to enhance it since then. And so it's a very good helicopter.

O'BRIEN: David Grange, let's talk a little bit about what apparently brought it down. We're talking about a heat-seeking missile, most likely. And we know that because apparently whatever struck it, struck in the engine box area.

Take a look at some video which was captured in April when Special Forces got one of Saddam Hussein's palaces. This in fact was the Tharthar (ph) Palace.

I want to point your attention to that spot right there. That is the engine box as seen through infrared. That's almost as if you had a heat seeking missile eye's view of a helicopter. It makes it relatively easy to aim. Or is easy the right term, General Grange?

GRANGE: I don't think it's easy. To fire a surface-to-air missile, it takes a little bit of expertise. They're not that easy. Even our own take some training.

But, again, if it was the lucky shot, if it happened to be the right slant angle when the adversary engaged the coalition aircraft, then he could have got a hit. But it's not that easy. O'BRIEN: We're bringing up one of the possibilities, the SA-14 which comes from the old Soviet arsenal. There are other some other cousins of this, the SA-7 being one of them. Range of nearly three miles, could be fired from a shoulder or turret. Targets below 10,000. Entered service in '74.

Ideally suited, though, for fixed-wing aircraft, right?

GRANGE: Ideally suited for fixed-wing. This is applicable, though, to helicopters as well. The old SA-7 which is more the original type of Soviet type surface-to-air missiles were more for fixed-wing.

This is more capability knocking down a helicopter, more advanced technology. And to have these kind of surface-to-air missiles in country -- if in fact that's the case, which I think there is some -- it's more dangerous.

O'BRIEN: Upwards of 5,000 of them.

Let's take a look at some of the counter measures. We have an old animation we which we used during the war which I want to refresh for us. We used an A-7 Warthog as an example here. They fly low and slow.

And take a look here. As we freeze it right here, if you can lose the lower part of the screen. As you can see, it fits on the shoulder and you lock onto it with a conventional sighting. Does it have a tremendous amount of kick, General Grange?

GRANGE: No it does not.

O'BRIEN: OK, and let's advance the tape. As the surface-to-air missile is fired, it locks on to generally the exhaust of the engine, correct?

GRANGE: That's correct.

O'BRIEN: And what we're seeing here as this A-7 -- watch it deploy it's countermeasures -- what is typically used, as we roll it forward, are flares and chaff. Chaff being little pieces of aluminum. Basically if you go back to that surface-to-air missile view I showed you a little while ago, tries to give it a false heat signature, correct?

GRANGE: That's correct.

O'BRIEN: And does it work?

GRANGE: It does work. It's either done automatically through some kind of sensor system or it's done by control of a pilot, if in fact the aircraft has this capability.

O'BRIEN: All right. Going back to this shot, you'll remember as these Special Forces head up (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Take a look right down there. You can see how hot that back portion of the Chinook helicopter is there. Tell tale signature, the aiming point for that surface-to-air missile.

Finally, if you don't have those sorts of countermeasures -- some of these helicopters do, some do not -- what can a pilot, what can a crew do to try to avoid this?

GRANGE: You fly lower, you fly fast, you fly not a predetermined pattern. In other words, whereas a straight line from point A to B, but you fly different courses, segments of a flight route in order to get to your destination. But usually very slow, very fast.

O'BRIEN: General David Grange, always a pleasure. Appreciate your insights. Thanks for helping us understand this.

GRANGE: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com