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Interview With Nancy Skinner, Joel Mowbray
Aired November 04, 2003 - 14:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As we mentioned at the top of the broadcast, CBS has just said no to the controversial series "The Reagans" while insisting the controversy did not figure into its decision.
I'm joined now by two people who have been tuned in from the outset to all this. In New York, Joel Mowbray of "The National Review." In Chicago, radio talk show host Nancy Skinner.
Let's start with you, Nancy Skinner. Ladies first, and all that. First of all, are you surprised by CBS's decision?
NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST; I'm shocked, Miles. I really am. And I think it's scary. We were talking about this all morning on the radio.
Of course, you have two controversies brewing, Ronald Reagan and the right was so inflamed that somebody -- they haven't even seen this mini series, but that it may somehow not depict him as they glorify him, that they fought so hard. And the RNC stepped in, the political party stepped in to put pressure.
And they were more outraged about this than "The da Vinci Code" controversy which is the allegation that Jesus Christ was married. In other words, Ronald Reagan is ranking above Jesus Christ with the religious right and they're sensitivities above it. It's outright scary.
O'BRIEN: Joel Mowbray, a lot of people are concerned about this concerted, orchestrated campaign. Perhaps amounts to prior restraint is the term we use in our business, censorship, whatever you want to call it. What do you think?
JOEL MOWBRAY, "THE NATIONAL REVIEW": I will say this. If, in fact, the Reagan biography had been portrayed as a fictionalized account like "The da Vinci Codes," then I think there wouldn't have been anywhere near the furrow there is about "The da Vinci Codes."
It's not a question of Reagan not ranking up with Jesus Christ. it's a question of CBS was going to list this as an historical biography. Therein lies the problem. If you call it a factual account it must be a factual account.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... have allowed this to go forward in book form because it was not verifiably correct. O'BRIEN: But, Joel, we're talking about mini series for TV. Do people really assume them to be unvarnished true records of history?
MOWBRAY: Not unvarnished, true records. But it would have been different if they said this was a fictionalized account of the Reagans' life.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: ... seen this. The critics were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) none of them had seen it.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... how about the line where Regan says that people who say people who get AIDS should die because they live in sin.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: According to reports, what he said was, Maybe the plague came down because illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments. And they slightly changed that phrase.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... said, Yes, we invented the line.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: ... World Health Organization said that Reagan was slow to respond to the AIDS crisis. Are we supposed to cover...
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: We're talking a whole different ball of wax here.
O'BRIEN: All right, Nancy, I just got to ask you, though. Wherever your politics may lie, isn't it a bit of a cheap shot, based on what you've seen on that script -- and after all, the man is 92- years-old, has Alzheimer's. And whatever you might say about his presidency, it left a strong mark on history.
Isn't it kind of a cheap shot to go after these tawdry details, especially given his condition?
SKINNER: Well, you know, the thing is, when do they do something like this? After he passes, at that point, where we all do. Then it would be in bad taste. It's in bad taste now.
Is that the standard, Miles? Because you know what? We're all going to die. And to say we should never depict anyone as a true character -- because this film had his positive side, too. And he did had a lot of great positives to him.
So are we never to talk about our presidents in any way but the most flattering way? Look how they treated Bill Clinton for eight years. And the same folks are going out of their minds about any perceived attack on Ronald Reagan.
MOWBRAY: You know, Miles, I've got to say, I don't know where these positives Nancy has seen were in the film. CBS for a while, the first thing they did, they took a week, week and a half, made 18 edits or deletions from the film. And that still was not enough to create a balance portrayal. As many negatives you try to take away, there's still no positives to balance it out.
Had CBS gone forward with this -- do you remember the Hitler mini series they did last May? Critics, you know, were mad because they put Hitler in a fairly favorable light. So had CBS Actually gone forward with putting the Reagan mini series on the air, they would have given him more favorable portrayal to Hitler...
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: This is America, OK? that's what happens in a free country.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: This is my point. That this is America. We're fighting a war. We've liberated people so they have freedoms of religion and press. And if you don't like the series, if you think it's wrong, you change it, you get another book. It's freedom.
The fact that political parties put so much...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Let me just ask this for one quick second here. I'm thinking of some Democratic presidents who are venerated, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy. In all kinds of similar mini series, movies, whatever you want to call them, a very unvarnished account has come forward over time.
Is this something that -- is there a decent interval here, or is Ronald Reagan off limits?
MOWBRAY: Oh, he's not off limits. In fact, if they wanted to give a fairly unvarnished account that was truthful and accurate, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
You know, look, as a journalist myself, I'm a huge, huge believer in defender of freedom of speech. So if you want to do something that's historically accurate, go for it.
But don't do a fictionalized account and put it under the veil of calling it reality. It's not. This is a fictionalized account. They said they created it out of the whole cloth of...
O'BRIEN: There's a new flash here. Hollywood fictionalizes. OK.
(CROSSTALK) O'BRIEN: I don't have any idea what either of you said, but thank you. It was excellent. Nice chatting with you. We certainly didn't settle anything. Nevertheless, you'll see that Reagan program on Showtime. Thank you both for being with us. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 4, 2003 - 14:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As we mentioned at the top of the broadcast, CBS has just said no to the controversial series "The Reagans" while insisting the controversy did not figure into its decision.
I'm joined now by two people who have been tuned in from the outset to all this. In New York, Joel Mowbray of "The National Review." In Chicago, radio talk show host Nancy Skinner.
Let's start with you, Nancy Skinner. Ladies first, and all that. First of all, are you surprised by CBS's decision?
NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST; I'm shocked, Miles. I really am. And I think it's scary. We were talking about this all morning on the radio.
Of course, you have two controversies brewing, Ronald Reagan and the right was so inflamed that somebody -- they haven't even seen this mini series, but that it may somehow not depict him as they glorify him, that they fought so hard. And the RNC stepped in, the political party stepped in to put pressure.
And they were more outraged about this than "The da Vinci Code" controversy which is the allegation that Jesus Christ was married. In other words, Ronald Reagan is ranking above Jesus Christ with the religious right and they're sensitivities above it. It's outright scary.
O'BRIEN: Joel Mowbray, a lot of people are concerned about this concerted, orchestrated campaign. Perhaps amounts to prior restraint is the term we use in our business, censorship, whatever you want to call it. What do you think?
JOEL MOWBRAY, "THE NATIONAL REVIEW": I will say this. If, in fact, the Reagan biography had been portrayed as a fictionalized account like "The da Vinci Codes," then I think there wouldn't have been anywhere near the furrow there is about "The da Vinci Codes."
It's not a question of Reagan not ranking up with Jesus Christ. it's a question of CBS was going to list this as an historical biography. Therein lies the problem. If you call it a factual account it must be a factual account.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... have allowed this to go forward in book form because it was not verifiably correct. O'BRIEN: But, Joel, we're talking about mini series for TV. Do people really assume them to be unvarnished true records of history?
MOWBRAY: Not unvarnished, true records. But it would have been different if they said this was a fictionalized account of the Reagans' life.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: ... seen this. The critics were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) none of them had seen it.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... how about the line where Regan says that people who say people who get AIDS should die because they live in sin.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: According to reports, what he said was, Maybe the plague came down because illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments. And they slightly changed that phrase.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: ... said, Yes, we invented the line.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: ... World Health Organization said that Reagan was slow to respond to the AIDS crisis. Are we supposed to cover...
(CROSSTALK)
MOWBRAY: We're talking a whole different ball of wax here.
O'BRIEN: All right, Nancy, I just got to ask you, though. Wherever your politics may lie, isn't it a bit of a cheap shot, based on what you've seen on that script -- and after all, the man is 92- years-old, has Alzheimer's. And whatever you might say about his presidency, it left a strong mark on history.
Isn't it kind of a cheap shot to go after these tawdry details, especially given his condition?
SKINNER: Well, you know, the thing is, when do they do something like this? After he passes, at that point, where we all do. Then it would be in bad taste. It's in bad taste now.
Is that the standard, Miles? Because you know what? We're all going to die. And to say we should never depict anyone as a true character -- because this film had his positive side, too. And he did had a lot of great positives to him.
So are we never to talk about our presidents in any way but the most flattering way? Look how they treated Bill Clinton for eight years. And the same folks are going out of their minds about any perceived attack on Ronald Reagan.
MOWBRAY: You know, Miles, I've got to say, I don't know where these positives Nancy has seen were in the film. CBS for a while, the first thing they did, they took a week, week and a half, made 18 edits or deletions from the film. And that still was not enough to create a balance portrayal. As many negatives you try to take away, there's still no positives to balance it out.
Had CBS gone forward with this -- do you remember the Hitler mini series they did last May? Critics, you know, were mad because they put Hitler in a fairly favorable light. So had CBS Actually gone forward with putting the Reagan mini series on the air, they would have given him more favorable portrayal to Hitler...
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: This is America, OK? that's what happens in a free country.
(CROSSTALK)
SKINNER: This is my point. That this is America. We're fighting a war. We've liberated people so they have freedoms of religion and press. And if you don't like the series, if you think it's wrong, you change it, you get another book. It's freedom.
The fact that political parties put so much...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Let me just ask this for one quick second here. I'm thinking of some Democratic presidents who are venerated, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy. In all kinds of similar mini series, movies, whatever you want to call them, a very unvarnished account has come forward over time.
Is this something that -- is there a decent interval here, or is Ronald Reagan off limits?
MOWBRAY: Oh, he's not off limits. In fact, if they wanted to give a fairly unvarnished account that was truthful and accurate, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
You know, look, as a journalist myself, I'm a huge, huge believer in defender of freedom of speech. So if you want to do something that's historically accurate, go for it.
But don't do a fictionalized account and put it under the veil of calling it reality. It's not. This is a fictionalized account. They said they created it out of the whole cloth of...
O'BRIEN: There's a new flash here. Hollywood fictionalizes. OK.
(CROSSTALK) O'BRIEN: I don't have any idea what either of you said, but thank you. It was excellent. Nice chatting with you. We certainly didn't settle anything. Nevertheless, you'll see that Reagan program on Showtime. Thank you both for being with us. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
