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Proof or Propaganda?
Aired November 25, 2003 - 15:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The camera never lies, or so they say, but videotape can be made to sell pretty much anything. And with that caveat, we want to spend some time this hour with a video clip that's come to light since Saturday's missile attack on a civilian cargo jet in Iraq.
The video apparently is meant to document that attack from the perspective of the attackers. What it really is and means open to an awful lot of debate and analysis.
And so we turn it over to the experts, CNN national security correspondent David Ensor and CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen.
David, let's begin with you.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, Miles, this tape was made available -- actually, it was dropped off at the hotel room of a French journalist who has been making contacts among the Iraqi insurgents lately.
And she has given it to us and to other television news organizations. And, as you say, on the face of it, this is a videotape showing a bunch of insurgents in a field. And we see a -- we think they're near the Baghdad Airport. In a minute, you will see a helicopter going by, what looks like a U.S. Army helicopter in the background.
And they are holding shoulder-fired missiles, RPGs, SAM-7s and other weapons that the insurgents have been using against American forces in Iraq. They are walking towards the -- what we think is the airport, if that's correct. You should see the helicopter in a second. And, at a certain point in the helicopter -- well, you don't see the helicopter. I'm afraid that was cut out.
But here, a shoulder-fired missile is launched into the air. We do not see it hitting anything on the tape, not clearly, anyway. And the tape then edits. And we see this aircraft, which, when you slow it down or freeze-frame it, appears to be the DHL cargo jet or one like it that was hit on Saturday. And there does appear to be some damage, some fire on one side.
So this could be videotape of the incident on Saturday that happened at Baghdad airport, where a DHL plane was hit. But it's not possible to tell, because of the way the tape is edited, whether that really is what it is or not.
Now, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was asked what he thinks about this tape and some of the other recent tapes that have been coming out lately purporting to be video of insurgents attacking American forces in Iraq. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It doesn't take a genius to fire off a shoulder-fired missile at an airplane.
QUESTION: But the idea that they want to get a tape out there, what does that tell you?
RUMSFELD: Ah. Oh, oh, that point. I mean, they do that type of thing, people do that, take -- take credit. I mean, we constantly have people after an incident call up and say, we did it. Look at us. Aren't we wonderful? We killed a bunch of innocent men, women and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENSOR: Now, U.S. officials say, when these tapes come out, they do analyze them, look for any tactical intelligence they might get.
Last week, for example, there were tapes on the Internet that showed that -- some incidents where, apparently, American soldiers in Humvees who were being attacked were being videotaped. That's useful to know that there are people in cars videotaping such incidents. That's something to look for, for the troops in Baghdad to look for, and elsewhere in Iraq, to look for in terms of their own security.
But, basically, as you say, as you saw, Secretary Rumsfeld's view and the view of many here is, this is a propaganda war, but it's not very meaningful. The real fight is on the streets.
O'BRIEN: All right, David, stand by there for a moment. Let's turn it over to Peter Bergen for just a moment.
Peter, as you look at that, what strikes you? We can talk about some of the television mechanics and also some of the weaponry that's involved there and what that leads you to believe.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, one thing that sort of strikes me is, you may remember the USS Cole attack in Yemen, where al Qaeda blew a big hole in the USS Cole and killed 17 American sailors.
They actually had an al Qaeda member try to videotape that attack. And they were going to distribute the videotape for propaganda purposes. He fell asleep. And later al Qaeda went back and sort of superimposed their own picture of an explosion on the Cole and distributed that tape around the Middle East.
So I guess the point here is that, obviously, getting these tapes out has a very, very good propaganda value. These groups want to document their actions. This tape seems to be a little unclear and muddy, as David has pointed out, if it's really the real shoot-down. That remains to be seen. There may be some skillful editing there. However, it does seem that it might document the DHL shoot-down.
O'BRIEN: And when you put it in context, Peter, with some of the previous tapes we've seen recently capturing some of the explosions in and around Baghdad and so forth, I suppose we can't doubt that, at some level, some of these insurgents or guerrillas might be responsible for this tape.
BERGEN: I think that's correct.
And, in fact, in a statement that they gave to the French journalist who obtained the tape, they described themselves as sort of Iraqi nationalists motivated by religious sort of desires to get the infidels out of their own country. They specifically distanced themselves from foreign fighters, while at the same time also, interestingly, distancing themselves from Saddam.
O'BRIEN: David, quick question for you. It had already been reported, we've already told the world the DHL aircraft was struck by a heat-seeking missile. What possible purpose does this tape provide, with that news already out there?
ENSOR: Well, the view of the French journalist who was sent the tape -- and she may have gotten this from the people she talked to -- was that they feel that if they show this to the world, they are showing their financial backers that they are getting their money's worth, that these people are capable of hitting a U.S. aircraft.
So, if they have that purpose, it may also have the purpose, as Peter was talking about, sort of a propaganda value and recruiting value, perhaps. So, obviously, they feel there's some purpose in this for them, sort of a psychological war purpose. But it's perhaps mostly for them to know and us to get.
O'BRIEN: David Ensor, Peter Bergen, thanks very much. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 25, 2003 - 15:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The camera never lies, or so they say, but videotape can be made to sell pretty much anything. And with that caveat, we want to spend some time this hour with a video clip that's come to light since Saturday's missile attack on a civilian cargo jet in Iraq.
The video apparently is meant to document that attack from the perspective of the attackers. What it really is and means open to an awful lot of debate and analysis.
And so we turn it over to the experts, CNN national security correspondent David Ensor and CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen.
David, let's begin with you.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, Miles, this tape was made available -- actually, it was dropped off at the hotel room of a French journalist who has been making contacts among the Iraqi insurgents lately.
And she has given it to us and to other television news organizations. And, as you say, on the face of it, this is a videotape showing a bunch of insurgents in a field. And we see a -- we think they're near the Baghdad Airport. In a minute, you will see a helicopter going by, what looks like a U.S. Army helicopter in the background.
And they are holding shoulder-fired missiles, RPGs, SAM-7s and other weapons that the insurgents have been using against American forces in Iraq. They are walking towards the -- what we think is the airport, if that's correct. You should see the helicopter in a second. And, at a certain point in the helicopter -- well, you don't see the helicopter. I'm afraid that was cut out.
But here, a shoulder-fired missile is launched into the air. We do not see it hitting anything on the tape, not clearly, anyway. And the tape then edits. And we see this aircraft, which, when you slow it down or freeze-frame it, appears to be the DHL cargo jet or one like it that was hit on Saturday. And there does appear to be some damage, some fire on one side.
So this could be videotape of the incident on Saturday that happened at Baghdad airport, where a DHL plane was hit. But it's not possible to tell, because of the way the tape is edited, whether that really is what it is or not.
Now, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was asked what he thinks about this tape and some of the other recent tapes that have been coming out lately purporting to be video of insurgents attacking American forces in Iraq. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It doesn't take a genius to fire off a shoulder-fired missile at an airplane.
QUESTION: But the idea that they want to get a tape out there, what does that tell you?
RUMSFELD: Ah. Oh, oh, that point. I mean, they do that type of thing, people do that, take -- take credit. I mean, we constantly have people after an incident call up and say, we did it. Look at us. Aren't we wonderful? We killed a bunch of innocent men, women and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENSOR: Now, U.S. officials say, when these tapes come out, they do analyze them, look for any tactical intelligence they might get.
Last week, for example, there were tapes on the Internet that showed that -- some incidents where, apparently, American soldiers in Humvees who were being attacked were being videotaped. That's useful to know that there are people in cars videotaping such incidents. That's something to look for, for the troops in Baghdad to look for, and elsewhere in Iraq, to look for in terms of their own security.
But, basically, as you say, as you saw, Secretary Rumsfeld's view and the view of many here is, this is a propaganda war, but it's not very meaningful. The real fight is on the streets.
O'BRIEN: All right, David, stand by there for a moment. Let's turn it over to Peter Bergen for just a moment.
Peter, as you look at that, what strikes you? We can talk about some of the television mechanics and also some of the weaponry that's involved there and what that leads you to believe.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, one thing that sort of strikes me is, you may remember the USS Cole attack in Yemen, where al Qaeda blew a big hole in the USS Cole and killed 17 American sailors.
They actually had an al Qaeda member try to videotape that attack. And they were going to distribute the videotape for propaganda purposes. He fell asleep. And later al Qaeda went back and sort of superimposed their own picture of an explosion on the Cole and distributed that tape around the Middle East.
So I guess the point here is that, obviously, getting these tapes out has a very, very good propaganda value. These groups want to document their actions. This tape seems to be a little unclear and muddy, as David has pointed out, if it's really the real shoot-down. That remains to be seen. There may be some skillful editing there. However, it does seem that it might document the DHL shoot-down.
O'BRIEN: And when you put it in context, Peter, with some of the previous tapes we've seen recently capturing some of the explosions in and around Baghdad and so forth, I suppose we can't doubt that, at some level, some of these insurgents or guerrillas might be responsible for this tape.
BERGEN: I think that's correct.
And, in fact, in a statement that they gave to the French journalist who obtained the tape, they described themselves as sort of Iraqi nationalists motivated by religious sort of desires to get the infidels out of their own country. They specifically distanced themselves from foreign fighters, while at the same time also, interestingly, distancing themselves from Saddam.
O'BRIEN: David, quick question for you. It had already been reported, we've already told the world the DHL aircraft was struck by a heat-seeking missile. What possible purpose does this tape provide, with that news already out there?
ENSOR: Well, the view of the French journalist who was sent the tape -- and she may have gotten this from the people she talked to -- was that they feel that if they show this to the world, they are showing their financial backers that they are getting their money's worth, that these people are capable of hitting a U.S. aircraft.
So, if they have that purpose, it may also have the purpose, as Peter was talking about, sort of a propaganda value and recruiting value, perhaps. So, obviously, they feel there's some purpose in this for them, sort of a psychological war purpose. But it's perhaps mostly for them to know and us to get.
O'BRIEN: David Ensor, Peter Bergen, thanks very much. We appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
