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Interview With Walter Shapiro
Aired November 28, 2003 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As photo ops go the Baghdad gambit is a dream come true for the president image-makers, right up there with the trip to Ground Zero on the days after 9/11.
Then again, that's exactly what we thought when the president landed on the aircraft carrier the Lincoln with its banner screaming "mission accomplished." Things can change, can't they?
Let's kick this around a little bit with Walter Shapiro of "USA Today." He's the author of "One-Car Caravan" which is currently out there. It's a look at the coming presidential campaign well in advance of the candidates' media blitzes. He was out there getting the real story.
Walter, good to have you with us.
WALTER SHAPIRO, "USA TODAY": Great to be here.
O'BRIEN: First of all, let's talk about, before we get into the images of the Bush presidency, let's talk about white lies. Do the American people forgive white lies in this instance when it preserves the national security, the security specifically of the president?
SHAPIRO: I think in general they do. I think a lot of these issues involve with exactly what the White House said and how they handled pools, is the sorts of things that journalism schools will be debating.
But I don't think it resonates with the average voter. And I'm not sure it should. I think to some extent, in war situations, the White House is given a certain degree of latitude.
I also think it was wonderful. George W. Bush experienced traffic for the first time in three years. What a wonderful idea to convey that the president is in touch with the experiences of ordinary Americans.
O'BRIEN: Yes, yes, well, that's interesting, when you think back to George Bush Sr., who didn't know what a supermarket scanner was, it's probably good he had an opportunity to face a little bit of traffic.
SHAPIRO: One traffic jam per three years.
O'BRIEN: We've been a little bit cute today about where the president may or may not be, that sort of thing. How much of that sort of wink-nod credibility, tongue in cheek, how long will that persist and does that play into the handles of his opponents?
SHAPIRO: I think the credibility issue is the issue of judgment. Did we go into Iraq for the right reasons and with the right preparations? I think everything else is a distraction from that main question which it's going to be up to the voters to answer.
So I think in a large sense the credibility act has to do with things like making the claims about African uranium in the 2003 State of the Union message rather than saying the president was going to be eating free-range turkey with his parents on Thanksgiving.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, let's talk about what the Democratic camp might be bandying about right now. Let's take a look at the pictures, the famous arrival on the USS Lincoln back in May, "mission accomplished." At that time it was considered to be the photo opportunity of all photo opportunities. And yet the president, of course, found out differently.
I suppose if you were in the Democratic camp right now you could say, Well, one way to spin the visit to Baghdad is that six months after this photo opportunity, perhaps it should be expected, you should be able to take a Delta Airlines flight to Baghdad.
Instead, you have to go in with tremendous amount of cloak and dagger secrecy just to preserve safety. Do you think the Democrats will be saying that kind of thing?
SHAPIRO: I think if the Democrats were smart they would also point out that merely appearing among the troops in a battlefield situation, in a battlefield country is not an inoculation against political fallout.
Lyndon Johnson went to Vietnam for Christmas 1967. Three and a half months later, he pulled out of the Democratic race for renomination because he couldn't win.
So the idea of great photo ops somehow change the political landscape 11 months before the election is something that leaves me a bit skeptical. I think it's going to be the realities on the ground in Iraq that will dictate an awful lot more than the news of this weekend.
O'BRIEN: So, but having said all of that, do you have a sense that Baghdad trumps the Lincoln in some way?
SHAPIRO: Oh, I think Baghdad slightly trumps the Lincoln for a week. I think it definitely trumps the Lincoln if Iraq goes well over the coming year and there's progress towards democracy.
I think if we continue to have casualties and we continue to have a sense of no particular plan from the administration, this is all of the piece as well politically. Desperate P.R. stunts by an administration that has lost its way in a war that it hasn't thought out.
O'BRIEN: Walter Shapiro covers politics for "USA Today." And, Walter, you didn't get the memo that pink is the color of the season, I'm sorry.
SHAPIRO: Oh, listen, I wish -- god, so many things we get wrong in journalism.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for spending time with us, we appreciate it.
SHAPIRO: It's been fun.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 28, 2003 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As photo ops go the Baghdad gambit is a dream come true for the president image-makers, right up there with the trip to Ground Zero on the days after 9/11.
Then again, that's exactly what we thought when the president landed on the aircraft carrier the Lincoln with its banner screaming "mission accomplished." Things can change, can't they?
Let's kick this around a little bit with Walter Shapiro of "USA Today." He's the author of "One-Car Caravan" which is currently out there. It's a look at the coming presidential campaign well in advance of the candidates' media blitzes. He was out there getting the real story.
Walter, good to have you with us.
WALTER SHAPIRO, "USA TODAY": Great to be here.
O'BRIEN: First of all, let's talk about, before we get into the images of the Bush presidency, let's talk about white lies. Do the American people forgive white lies in this instance when it preserves the national security, the security specifically of the president?
SHAPIRO: I think in general they do. I think a lot of these issues involve with exactly what the White House said and how they handled pools, is the sorts of things that journalism schools will be debating.
But I don't think it resonates with the average voter. And I'm not sure it should. I think to some extent, in war situations, the White House is given a certain degree of latitude.
I also think it was wonderful. George W. Bush experienced traffic for the first time in three years. What a wonderful idea to convey that the president is in touch with the experiences of ordinary Americans.
O'BRIEN: Yes, yes, well, that's interesting, when you think back to George Bush Sr., who didn't know what a supermarket scanner was, it's probably good he had an opportunity to face a little bit of traffic.
SHAPIRO: One traffic jam per three years.
O'BRIEN: We've been a little bit cute today about where the president may or may not be, that sort of thing. How much of that sort of wink-nod credibility, tongue in cheek, how long will that persist and does that play into the handles of his opponents?
SHAPIRO: I think the credibility issue is the issue of judgment. Did we go into Iraq for the right reasons and with the right preparations? I think everything else is a distraction from that main question which it's going to be up to the voters to answer.
So I think in a large sense the credibility act has to do with things like making the claims about African uranium in the 2003 State of the Union message rather than saying the president was going to be eating free-range turkey with his parents on Thanksgiving.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, let's talk about what the Democratic camp might be bandying about right now. Let's take a look at the pictures, the famous arrival on the USS Lincoln back in May, "mission accomplished." At that time it was considered to be the photo opportunity of all photo opportunities. And yet the president, of course, found out differently.
I suppose if you were in the Democratic camp right now you could say, Well, one way to spin the visit to Baghdad is that six months after this photo opportunity, perhaps it should be expected, you should be able to take a Delta Airlines flight to Baghdad.
Instead, you have to go in with tremendous amount of cloak and dagger secrecy just to preserve safety. Do you think the Democrats will be saying that kind of thing?
SHAPIRO: I think if the Democrats were smart they would also point out that merely appearing among the troops in a battlefield situation, in a battlefield country is not an inoculation against political fallout.
Lyndon Johnson went to Vietnam for Christmas 1967. Three and a half months later, he pulled out of the Democratic race for renomination because he couldn't win.
So the idea of great photo ops somehow change the political landscape 11 months before the election is something that leaves me a bit skeptical. I think it's going to be the realities on the ground in Iraq that will dictate an awful lot more than the news of this weekend.
O'BRIEN: So, but having said all of that, do you have a sense that Baghdad trumps the Lincoln in some way?
SHAPIRO: Oh, I think Baghdad slightly trumps the Lincoln for a week. I think it definitely trumps the Lincoln if Iraq goes well over the coming year and there's progress towards democracy.
I think if we continue to have casualties and we continue to have a sense of no particular plan from the administration, this is all of the piece as well politically. Desperate P.R. stunts by an administration that has lost its way in a war that it hasn't thought out.
O'BRIEN: Walter Shapiro covers politics for "USA Today." And, Walter, you didn't get the memo that pink is the color of the season, I'm sorry.
SHAPIRO: Oh, listen, I wish -- god, so many things we get wrong in journalism.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for spending time with us, we appreciate it.
SHAPIRO: It's been fun.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
