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Driver's Licenses for Illegal Aliens?

Aired December 12, 2003 - 14:53   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the campaign in California, against the repeal of a measure to award driver's licenses to the state's illegal immigrants. Today, a boycott is on. And organizers say it won't be the last.
Joining us now to talk about the issue in Sacramento, Francisco Estrada or the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund. And in L.A., Ira Mehlman, media director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Gentlemen, nice to have you here.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about illegal immigrants and the issue at hand here, on whether they should have driver's licenses or not. Let's lay out the discussion here. Let's start with you, Ira.

IRA MEHLMAN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: A driver's license isn't simply permission to drive in the United States. It is the de facto identification document that all of us use to prove who we are.

The plan has been all along to get these documents into the hands of illegal immigrants as a step on the road toward granting them a massive, sweeping amnesty for 9 to 11 million people living in the United Sates illegally.

This is really what is at the root of the effort to get driver's license into the hand of illegal aliens in California and many other states throughout the country. It's clearly intended to make sure that the illegal aliens who are here can remain here and get amnesty.

PHILLIPS: And there is a tremendous -- Francisco, maybe you can bring in -- I know you take a different opinion. Why don't you lay out how you feel about the driver's license at issue? And also, tell us about the Latino workforce. It's huge in California.

FRANCISCO ESTRADA, MALDEF: Yes. I couldn't disagree more with Mr. Mehlman. This really is a public safety issue. It really is a matter of allowing people to drive, have them tested, knowing who they are, having them have auto insurance.

That's why hundreds of law enforcement officers have supported this bill because what could be safer for the cop on the beat than to pull somebody over and know the person -- that they're going to know who they're pulling over and that person has a driver's license?

PHILLIPS: Ira, isn't it true hit and run accidents have increased because illegal immigrants are afraid of being deported?

MEHLMAN: Sure, hit and run accidents have increased. But what we need to do is enforce our immigration code -- excuse me, our motor vehicle code here in California and throughout the country.

We keep accommodating illegal immigrants. What we need to do is make it very clear to people that if you get caught driving without a driver's license, we are going to turn you over to the federal immigration authorities.

There's also no reason to expect that people who violated our immigration laws, who are driving knowing that they're not supposed to be, who working in violation of the law are suddenly going to go out and spend thousands of dollars a year to buy auto insurance when they don't have any assets to protect.

It's a red herring. This is all about getting driver's licenses into their hands so they become indistinguishable from everybody else in our society.

PHILLIPS: Francisco, Ira also brought up...

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRADA: I'm sorry, I have to respond. You know, the fact of the matter is that for over 40 or 50 years, in the state of California, undocumented workers were able to obtain driver's licenses and they were able to obtain auto insurance. I mean that was the practice for over 40 years. We never had a problem with that in California.

PHILLIPS: So what happened? What went wrong?

ESTRADA: It's only been -- it's only been in the last ten years since the hysteria of the early 1990s with the Proposition 187 campaign that we started to require Social Security numbers and proof of lawful residence in the state of California to obtain a driver's license.

And that has caused hundreds of thousands of people to drive on our streets that are not tested, and that have no ability to obtain any sort of auto insurance. And that's simply what this is all about.

PHILLIPS: And why did that happen, Ira?

MEHLMAN: The problem is that we've had a massive influx of illegal immigrants over the past ten years. The problem has become exacerbated by the sheer volume of people who are violating our immigration laws. And the state of California, in fact, the federal government seems to want to accommodate illegal immigrants rather than enforce laws against illegal immigration.

The way to deal with this is not to constantly accommodate people breaking our laws, but rather start enforcing laws that we have on the books, whether it's the federal government enforcing the immigration law or the state of California enforcing its own motor vehicle codes. ESTRADA: You know the matter of amnesty or the matter of legalization is something that the federal government is going to have to come to grips with. We here in California have to be concerned with the safety of our streets. And that is what SB-60 would have done. SB-60 would have allowed us to make sure that everybody was tested, that we can verify identity, and that people had the opportunity to obtain driver's licenses.

Now if we're going to -- if we're going to stop awarding driver's licenses to people that commit crimes, that -- the people that hire undocumented workers are committing a crime. Are we going to stop them? Are we going to take their driver's licenses away? Are we going to take away the driver's licenses from burglars, from petty criminals, from white collar criminals? I don't think that that's -- that's where we're going.

We have to separate the issue of enforcement of our immigration laws, and/or amnesty, or legalization for undocumented workers for people that make our state work. These are the people that pick our food. These are the people that make our beds in our hotels...

MEHLMAN: And drain our social services.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: ... we've heard the argument from Francisco's point of view. Now Arnold Schwarzenegger has even said, OK, maybe we can recraft this measure, we can find a happy medium here. What do you see as the solution?

MEHLMAN: The solution is to enforce our immigration laws and to enforce our motor vehicle codes. Giving this thing a makeover isn't going to solve the problem of having huge numbers of people who are in the state illegally, who are using social services at an alarming rate.

I mean a lot of the October 7 recall had to do with the fact that our state budget is being drained by programs that are being accessed by millions of people who are here illegally earning very low wages.

What we have in California is a massive labor subsidy program. The employers get away with paying very low wages to these illegal aliens, and then everybody else has to pick up the cost cost and pay for all the social services. What we have established is a labor subsidy program here. And we have to recognize that we're not getting something for nothing and this is bankrupting the state of California.

PHILLIPS: Francisco, final thought. We got to wrap it.

ESTRADA: The final thought is that this is -- the issue of undocumented immigration, the issue of immigration, the legalization, has to be separated from this very basic public safety issue. Do we want to know if the driver that is driving next to us on the freeway has a driver's license and has auto insurance?

That is really at the crux of what the debate is about SB-60. The debate on the broader issues of illegal immigration, we're going to have to leave that to the federal government.

PHILLIPS: Francisco Estrada, Ira Mehlman, no doubt a very hot topic. We'll continue to follow it.

Thank you both for your thoughts and your time.

ESTRADA: Thank you.

MEHLMAN: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 12, 2003 - 14:53   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the campaign in California, against the repeal of a measure to award driver's licenses to the state's illegal immigrants. Today, a boycott is on. And organizers say it won't be the last.
Joining us now to talk about the issue in Sacramento, Francisco Estrada or the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund. And in L.A., Ira Mehlman, media director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Gentlemen, nice to have you here.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about illegal immigrants and the issue at hand here, on whether they should have driver's licenses or not. Let's lay out the discussion here. Let's start with you, Ira.

IRA MEHLMAN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: A driver's license isn't simply permission to drive in the United States. It is the de facto identification document that all of us use to prove who we are.

The plan has been all along to get these documents into the hands of illegal immigrants as a step on the road toward granting them a massive, sweeping amnesty for 9 to 11 million people living in the United Sates illegally.

This is really what is at the root of the effort to get driver's license into the hand of illegal aliens in California and many other states throughout the country. It's clearly intended to make sure that the illegal aliens who are here can remain here and get amnesty.

PHILLIPS: And there is a tremendous -- Francisco, maybe you can bring in -- I know you take a different opinion. Why don't you lay out how you feel about the driver's license at issue? And also, tell us about the Latino workforce. It's huge in California.

FRANCISCO ESTRADA, MALDEF: Yes. I couldn't disagree more with Mr. Mehlman. This really is a public safety issue. It really is a matter of allowing people to drive, have them tested, knowing who they are, having them have auto insurance.

That's why hundreds of law enforcement officers have supported this bill because what could be safer for the cop on the beat than to pull somebody over and know the person -- that they're going to know who they're pulling over and that person has a driver's license?

PHILLIPS: Ira, isn't it true hit and run accidents have increased because illegal immigrants are afraid of being deported?

MEHLMAN: Sure, hit and run accidents have increased. But what we need to do is enforce our immigration code -- excuse me, our motor vehicle code here in California and throughout the country.

We keep accommodating illegal immigrants. What we need to do is make it very clear to people that if you get caught driving without a driver's license, we are going to turn you over to the federal immigration authorities.

There's also no reason to expect that people who violated our immigration laws, who are driving knowing that they're not supposed to be, who working in violation of the law are suddenly going to go out and spend thousands of dollars a year to buy auto insurance when they don't have any assets to protect.

It's a red herring. This is all about getting driver's licenses into their hands so they become indistinguishable from everybody else in our society.

PHILLIPS: Francisco, Ira also brought up...

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRADA: I'm sorry, I have to respond. You know, the fact of the matter is that for over 40 or 50 years, in the state of California, undocumented workers were able to obtain driver's licenses and they were able to obtain auto insurance. I mean that was the practice for over 40 years. We never had a problem with that in California.

PHILLIPS: So what happened? What went wrong?

ESTRADA: It's only been -- it's only been in the last ten years since the hysteria of the early 1990s with the Proposition 187 campaign that we started to require Social Security numbers and proof of lawful residence in the state of California to obtain a driver's license.

And that has caused hundreds of thousands of people to drive on our streets that are not tested, and that have no ability to obtain any sort of auto insurance. And that's simply what this is all about.

PHILLIPS: And why did that happen, Ira?

MEHLMAN: The problem is that we've had a massive influx of illegal immigrants over the past ten years. The problem has become exacerbated by the sheer volume of people who are violating our immigration laws. And the state of California, in fact, the federal government seems to want to accommodate illegal immigrants rather than enforce laws against illegal immigration.

The way to deal with this is not to constantly accommodate people breaking our laws, but rather start enforcing laws that we have on the books, whether it's the federal government enforcing the immigration law or the state of California enforcing its own motor vehicle codes. ESTRADA: You know the matter of amnesty or the matter of legalization is something that the federal government is going to have to come to grips with. We here in California have to be concerned with the safety of our streets. And that is what SB-60 would have done. SB-60 would have allowed us to make sure that everybody was tested, that we can verify identity, and that people had the opportunity to obtain driver's licenses.

Now if we're going to -- if we're going to stop awarding driver's licenses to people that commit crimes, that -- the people that hire undocumented workers are committing a crime. Are we going to stop them? Are we going to take their driver's licenses away? Are we going to take away the driver's licenses from burglars, from petty criminals, from white collar criminals? I don't think that that's -- that's where we're going.

We have to separate the issue of enforcement of our immigration laws, and/or amnesty, or legalization for undocumented workers for people that make our state work. These are the people that pick our food. These are the people that make our beds in our hotels...

MEHLMAN: And drain our social services.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: ... we've heard the argument from Francisco's point of view. Now Arnold Schwarzenegger has even said, OK, maybe we can recraft this measure, we can find a happy medium here. What do you see as the solution?

MEHLMAN: The solution is to enforce our immigration laws and to enforce our motor vehicle codes. Giving this thing a makeover isn't going to solve the problem of having huge numbers of people who are in the state illegally, who are using social services at an alarming rate.

I mean a lot of the October 7 recall had to do with the fact that our state budget is being drained by programs that are being accessed by millions of people who are here illegally earning very low wages.

What we have in California is a massive labor subsidy program. The employers get away with paying very low wages to these illegal aliens, and then everybody else has to pick up the cost cost and pay for all the social services. What we have established is a labor subsidy program here. And we have to recognize that we're not getting something for nothing and this is bankrupting the state of California.

PHILLIPS: Francisco, final thought. We got to wrap it.

ESTRADA: The final thought is that this is -- the issue of undocumented immigration, the issue of immigration, the legalization, has to be separated from this very basic public safety issue. Do we want to know if the driver that is driving next to us on the freeway has a driver's license and has auto insurance?

That is really at the crux of what the debate is about SB-60. The debate on the broader issues of illegal immigration, we're going to have to leave that to the federal government.

PHILLIPS: Francisco Estrada, Ira Mehlman, no doubt a very hot topic. We'll continue to follow it.

Thank you both for your thoughts and your time.

ESTRADA: Thank you.

MEHLMAN: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com