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Major Legal Cases of 2004 To Come
Aired January 02, 2004 - 14:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Three public figures in pretty hot water as we start the new year. Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant And Martha Stewart. Standing by in Washington to talk smack, syndicated columnist Armstrong Williams. And in Dallas, author Rowland Martin, editor of BlackAmericaToday.com. Two men that are so calm and collected. Gentlemen, nice to see you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: You know what, we will start with Michael Jackson, guys, OK? This interview on "60 Minutes," good idea, bad idea? Armstrong?
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I tell you, Michael Jackson has had a bad week. I mean I don't know who is advising him, but I have to tell you something, he needs to clean house.
Obviously, it was a bad decision for Michael to do the "60 Minutes" interview. Nothing good came out for him. The best thing for Michael to do because it involved in a criminal investigation is to shut up, and speak through his lawyers and his publicists.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) I can't imagine what he was thinking except for the fact that he was so bent on having a special on CBS, he was willing to compromise himself legally in charge against him just to get back on the air.
He was misused in this situation. And the only clear winner was CBS. And Nielson ratings has pointed that out recently, that they did very well with the overnight ratings.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Yes, Rowland, what do you think? And also, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that, you know, it has been raised, this is a black issue. I have ask you both what you think about that.
ROWLAND MARTIN, BLACKAMERICATODAY.COM: Well, first of all, it was only a bad interview based upon what Michael Jackson said. If he had said something differently obviously it wouldn't have been a bad interview.
We can't blame -- Ed Bradley can't CBS. Frankly, it all falls on what comes out of Michael Jackson's mouth. He's the client. And in the end he makes the final decisions. I said for the beginning, Kyra, that I don't think this is an issue of race. That I think all too often folks want to jump and begin to blame race or inject race into this issue. What this boils down to is an allegation of child molestation, and that is the most important factor here.
So whether or not the client was white, whether or not the person being alleged was black, the issue is child molestation, not Michael Jackson's race -- which, frankly, has changed over the years.
WILLIAMS: Man, you give me such hope. This is clearly a new year.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: You mentioned Kobe. Armstrong, you think Kobe's innocent, right?
WILLIAMS: You know, it is hard for me to imagine that Kobe raped the young woman. Obviously, his blood was found on her. Obviously, it may be have been rough sex. Obviously they were both adults at the time. Obviously he didn't know anything about her history, he took a risk. And obviously something happened.
But also I don't want to trivialize the fact that she alleged rape because it is a serious charge. And just because she is not some icon who's a permanent fixture on TV and sports, we should just not clearly dismiss her.
But I find it very difficult to believe that he would put himself in a position to where he would have to rape someone.
PHILLIPS: Rowland?
MARTIN: I would have to disagree with Armstrong. I have known a number of athletes, a number of people who frankly have gotten things very easily. Who feel as if, by virtue of their star status, that are afforded certain things.
I believe that Kobe Bryant is innocent until proven guilty, same as Michael Jackson. But I am not one to say that I can't imagine him raping someone. I can't imagine an individual actually choosing to -- if someone told them know, they wanted to continue to go on with the actual intercourse.
The problem here again is a matter of consensual. She raised the point, yes, I did kiss him. Yes, we were involved in some kissing and hugging, and things along those lines.
And so that's going to be the gray area where I think the defense is going to tread very much so.
PHILLIPS: All right, speaking of kissing and hugging, Armstrong, Martha Stewart. Is she going to kiss her big famous future good bye or no? WILLIAMS: You know, Martha Stewart sort of reminds me of Leona Hemsley. the associated the B-word with Leona and the fact that she ended up going to jail over a million dollars in back taxes, which were questionable at the time, after she and her husband paid over $52 million in taxes.
I think that Martha Stewart has made a lot of enemies in her industry. A lot of people dislike her. And I just think that Martha Stewart -- they first alleged that she was involved in insider trading. They had to drop that because there was nothing to prove the point because Sam Waksal didn't go along. He said they never had a discussion on the issues.
Now, they're saying she's involved in obstruction of justice. Obviously, she and the lawyers and the prosecution only know whether or not there's enough evidence to prove that.
I just think Martha Stewart, believe it or not, is paying a price because of the kind of image that they have of women -- they feel that women should have in places like corporate America. And I feel that she is unfairly singled out because if you look at some of these other corporate boards and that they've done, it can't even compare to the charges and allegations against Mrs. Stewart.
I just think she's just a scapegoat for a larger issue here.
PHILLIPS: Is this male versus female, female versus male, Rowland?
MARTIN: No, I flat out disagree. I think one of the problems we have is we have two criminal justice systems. And if Martha Stewart has been alleged to be involved in criminal conduct, she should be prosecuted.
If Lakeisha and Julio bought a small ounce of drugs or did something wrong, shoplifted, folks would be trying to throw the book at them and throw them in jail.
I don't care if you are a celebrity, if you have millions and millions of dollars. The fact of the matter is, you should be treated the same according to our criminal justice system.
Again, Martha is innocent until proven until, but they should follow through on prosecuting her if she is indeed involved in this behavior.
PHILLIPS: Rowland, Lakeisha and Julio are on the phone. I'd like to bring them into this interview, they're a little upset with you.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: All right, I hate to do this, guys. I have to cut it. I'm very impressed. You two are so well behaved, you're loving each other in 2004.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I have 364 more days, so it is OK.
PHILLIPS: And you know what? We have 364 more days to have you both back on and debate. Armstrong Williams., Rowland Martin, always a pleasure, guys.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 2, 2004 - 14:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Three public figures in pretty hot water as we start the new year. Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant And Martha Stewart. Standing by in Washington to talk smack, syndicated columnist Armstrong Williams. And in Dallas, author Rowland Martin, editor of BlackAmericaToday.com. Two men that are so calm and collected. Gentlemen, nice to see you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: You know what, we will start with Michael Jackson, guys, OK? This interview on "60 Minutes," good idea, bad idea? Armstrong?
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I tell you, Michael Jackson has had a bad week. I mean I don't know who is advising him, but I have to tell you something, he needs to clean house.
Obviously, it was a bad decision for Michael to do the "60 Minutes" interview. Nothing good came out for him. The best thing for Michael to do because it involved in a criminal investigation is to shut up, and speak through his lawyers and his publicists.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) I can't imagine what he was thinking except for the fact that he was so bent on having a special on CBS, he was willing to compromise himself legally in charge against him just to get back on the air.
He was misused in this situation. And the only clear winner was CBS. And Nielson ratings has pointed that out recently, that they did very well with the overnight ratings.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Yes, Rowland, what do you think? And also, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that, you know, it has been raised, this is a black issue. I have ask you both what you think about that.
ROWLAND MARTIN, BLACKAMERICATODAY.COM: Well, first of all, it was only a bad interview based upon what Michael Jackson said. If he had said something differently obviously it wouldn't have been a bad interview.
We can't blame -- Ed Bradley can't CBS. Frankly, it all falls on what comes out of Michael Jackson's mouth. He's the client. And in the end he makes the final decisions. I said for the beginning, Kyra, that I don't think this is an issue of race. That I think all too often folks want to jump and begin to blame race or inject race into this issue. What this boils down to is an allegation of child molestation, and that is the most important factor here.
So whether or not the client was white, whether or not the person being alleged was black, the issue is child molestation, not Michael Jackson's race -- which, frankly, has changed over the years.
WILLIAMS: Man, you give me such hope. This is clearly a new year.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: You mentioned Kobe. Armstrong, you think Kobe's innocent, right?
WILLIAMS: You know, it is hard for me to imagine that Kobe raped the young woman. Obviously, his blood was found on her. Obviously, it may be have been rough sex. Obviously they were both adults at the time. Obviously he didn't know anything about her history, he took a risk. And obviously something happened.
But also I don't want to trivialize the fact that she alleged rape because it is a serious charge. And just because she is not some icon who's a permanent fixture on TV and sports, we should just not clearly dismiss her.
But I find it very difficult to believe that he would put himself in a position to where he would have to rape someone.
PHILLIPS: Rowland?
MARTIN: I would have to disagree with Armstrong. I have known a number of athletes, a number of people who frankly have gotten things very easily. Who feel as if, by virtue of their star status, that are afforded certain things.
I believe that Kobe Bryant is innocent until proven guilty, same as Michael Jackson. But I am not one to say that I can't imagine him raping someone. I can't imagine an individual actually choosing to -- if someone told them know, they wanted to continue to go on with the actual intercourse.
The problem here again is a matter of consensual. She raised the point, yes, I did kiss him. Yes, we were involved in some kissing and hugging, and things along those lines.
And so that's going to be the gray area where I think the defense is going to tread very much so.
PHILLIPS: All right, speaking of kissing and hugging, Armstrong, Martha Stewart. Is she going to kiss her big famous future good bye or no? WILLIAMS: You know, Martha Stewart sort of reminds me of Leona Hemsley. the associated the B-word with Leona and the fact that she ended up going to jail over a million dollars in back taxes, which were questionable at the time, after she and her husband paid over $52 million in taxes.
I think that Martha Stewart has made a lot of enemies in her industry. A lot of people dislike her. And I just think that Martha Stewart -- they first alleged that she was involved in insider trading. They had to drop that because there was nothing to prove the point because Sam Waksal didn't go along. He said they never had a discussion on the issues.
Now, they're saying she's involved in obstruction of justice. Obviously, she and the lawyers and the prosecution only know whether or not there's enough evidence to prove that.
I just think Martha Stewart, believe it or not, is paying a price because of the kind of image that they have of women -- they feel that women should have in places like corporate America. And I feel that she is unfairly singled out because if you look at some of these other corporate boards and that they've done, it can't even compare to the charges and allegations against Mrs. Stewart.
I just think she's just a scapegoat for a larger issue here.
PHILLIPS: Is this male versus female, female versus male, Rowland?
MARTIN: No, I flat out disagree. I think one of the problems we have is we have two criminal justice systems. And if Martha Stewart has been alleged to be involved in criminal conduct, she should be prosecuted.
If Lakeisha and Julio bought a small ounce of drugs or did something wrong, shoplifted, folks would be trying to throw the book at them and throw them in jail.
I don't care if you are a celebrity, if you have millions and millions of dollars. The fact of the matter is, you should be treated the same according to our criminal justice system.
Again, Martha is innocent until proven until, but they should follow through on prosecuting her if she is indeed involved in this behavior.
PHILLIPS: Rowland, Lakeisha and Julio are on the phone. I'd like to bring them into this interview, they're a little upset with you.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: All right, I hate to do this, guys. I have to cut it. I'm very impressed. You two are so well behaved, you're loving each other in 2004.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I have 364 more days, so it is OK.
PHILLIPS: And you know what? We have 364 more days to have you both back on and debate. Armstrong Williams., Rowland Martin, always a pleasure, guys.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
