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Interview With Martha Zoller and Marc Bernier

Aired January 07, 2004 - 14:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As we've mentioned, the president's immigration proposals could affect some eight million undocumented workers. But there are plenty of others who could feel the impact and many who are taking sides on this complex issue.
We welcome Martha Zoller, a radio talk show host with WDUN. She's here in Atlanta. And Marc Bernier, he's a radio talk show host with WNDB in Daytona Beach, Florida. Thanks so much to the both of you for being here. Just want to start off by saying what about breaking the law? Martha?

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, certainly there is an issue about breaking the law and that has to be taken care of. But we have had this wink and a nod, put it under the cover kind of enforcement of laws, or not enforcement of laws.

So what do we do with the folks that are here? I'm willing to give the president a chance to present his plan, because he's actually putting one forward instead of the wink and a nod, sweep it under the rug stuff.

COLLINS: Marc, is this going to solve sweeping things under the rug?

MARC BERNIER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, it doesn't. I mean to me, this is mostly political pandering. But more importantly, it sends a bad signal to everybody who waited in line to be able to come into this country legally and take a job that, you know what? We'll get to you eventually, but since these people here, we'll just find a way to deal with them.

They should be sending them back. It costs states huge amounts of money. Florida for one case, a half billion dollars just for health care for illegals. Now we're going to say we're going to absorb them into our local economy? I don't think it's a good move at all.

ZOLLER: We've already absorbed them into our local economy. Most of these folks are working already. We have the fastest growing Latino population in the country and we're dealing with it.

There are problems with it and we need more law enforcement and we need the Clear Act pass. But as far as the guest worker program, that's one way to move forward so that we can determine who is a problem and who is not a problem. We will know who these people are and we will know where they are. COLLINS: So then, Martha, let me ask you. Are you saying that this actual actually, in the effort of the American administration to track down illegal alien whose may want to participate in terrorist acts?

ZOLLER: Certainly we need to know who is here, who is coming and who is going. That's a major issue. It is a homeland security issue and one of the few things that are put in our Constitution, which is our defense and protection of the border as part of that. That's part of this proposal.

But all of us are being a little premature. And I am willing to let the president make his case. However, it's got to go to Congress. This could be something that he's doing for political pandering for Mexico, not for here. And it's get to go to Congress. If he doesn't put his weight behind it, it won't pass.

COLLINS: Marc Bernier, is this a homeland security issue?

BERNIER: I'm concerned about homeland security. I'm concerned about the fact that the board remembers so porous that you could get someone from one of these countries to simply walk across the border with one of these shoulder missile launchers. Borders are porous as it is, but, you know five days to six days before he's meeting with the Vicente Fox, the president rolls this out? Come on. Mostly this is a big win for Mexico.

ZOLLER: The problem isn't -- is that we're not giving credit whether they do make progress on the border. And it's a third rail kind of issue.

They are making progress on the border. They have a four-point plan where the first two points are working better. And they are going to continue doing that. But we've got to make sure that we're willing to give them credit when they do something right and that's the problem. And it is the third rail, because the anti-immigration people will never be happy and the pro-immigration people will never be happy.

BERNIER: But these people are here. This is unlawful. They're here illegally. What signal are we sending to law-abiding Americans when we have people here in an unlawful position and we allow them to stay? We have to show people we're serious about the law in this country.

ZOLLER: But you got to look at this like a crime. What kind of crime is this? Many times when we discover a crime five years later and people have behaved and not continued with this, then we let them have time off for good behavior. What kind of crime is this?

(CROSSTALK)

ZOLLER: The good thing that's coming out of this though is we're going to have this debate. Because what's happened for the last 15 years is we've had a wink and a nod and sweep it under the rug. The president is going to have a policy. He didn't have one in 2000 and there is not a single Democrat that has a policy.

COLLINS: Let me just ask this, guys. How long does it take to get a green card? I know there is some concern about it actually taking longer than the contemporary status lasts. And so therefore

ZOLLER: Well, that's true.

(CROSSTALK)

ZOLLER: The average wait is nine years in Mexico.

BERNIER: Yes, but you know what? We should be sending these people back. I know -- I don't mean to be repetitive. But if you're not going to stick by this, what laws do we have in this country?

ZOLLER: Mark, you bring up a great point though...

HAYNES: Martha, let him finish. Then we'll get your comment.

BERNIER: I mean, what this does, I think this is big for employers. They're saying they can't find people.

I mean I'm in central Florida where they end up going to fields and they're picking things like ferns. A lot of these people may be Hispanic or Mexican-Americans. They're saying they can't get Americans to do this. So if people here don't want the jobs, they have to go outside to get the job. That's a very convenient excuse to justify bringing this forth.

But the bottom line is they're here illegally. They don't want to deal with that because it's unpleasant. The president and the administration -- and I love the president, for what he's done for this country -- but they seem to be overly concerned with making everybody like us and make everybody happy, and he can't do that. Sometimes have you to take a tough stand for the American people.

HAYNES: Martha, would you agree that there are quite a few questions, as you said earlier, about this, in particular the issue Marc just brought up. You know, when will the guest worker status and how will it actually be enforced, if you will? Questions about whether or not Americans are really going to be offered these jobs first. How long will the job be advertised? How long about will it be left open to make sure that an American does not want it before an immigrant?

ZOLLER: The biggest question we have to ask and has to be answered by the Congress and by the president is how can we trust a federal government that couldn't enforce the laws up until this point to be able to do it?

That's going to be the sale job the president is going to have to have. We've had a lot of good programs in the past, but they haven't been enforced. The key is enforcement, and we need to make sure if we have laws on the books, we enforce them.

COLLINS: All right. At 2:45 we'll hear much more about this when the president speaks on this new policy. Until then, Martha Zoller and Marc Bernier, thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 7, 2004 - 14:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As we've mentioned, the president's immigration proposals could affect some eight million undocumented workers. But there are plenty of others who could feel the impact and many who are taking sides on this complex issue.
We welcome Martha Zoller, a radio talk show host with WDUN. She's here in Atlanta. And Marc Bernier, he's a radio talk show host with WNDB in Daytona Beach, Florida. Thanks so much to the both of you for being here. Just want to start off by saying what about breaking the law? Martha?

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, certainly there is an issue about breaking the law and that has to be taken care of. But we have had this wink and a nod, put it under the cover kind of enforcement of laws, or not enforcement of laws.

So what do we do with the folks that are here? I'm willing to give the president a chance to present his plan, because he's actually putting one forward instead of the wink and a nod, sweep it under the rug stuff.

COLLINS: Marc, is this going to solve sweeping things under the rug?

MARC BERNIER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, it doesn't. I mean to me, this is mostly political pandering. But more importantly, it sends a bad signal to everybody who waited in line to be able to come into this country legally and take a job that, you know what? We'll get to you eventually, but since these people here, we'll just find a way to deal with them.

They should be sending them back. It costs states huge amounts of money. Florida for one case, a half billion dollars just for health care for illegals. Now we're going to say we're going to absorb them into our local economy? I don't think it's a good move at all.

ZOLLER: We've already absorbed them into our local economy. Most of these folks are working already. We have the fastest growing Latino population in the country and we're dealing with it.

There are problems with it and we need more law enforcement and we need the Clear Act pass. But as far as the guest worker program, that's one way to move forward so that we can determine who is a problem and who is not a problem. We will know who these people are and we will know where they are. COLLINS: So then, Martha, let me ask you. Are you saying that this actual actually, in the effort of the American administration to track down illegal alien whose may want to participate in terrorist acts?

ZOLLER: Certainly we need to know who is here, who is coming and who is going. That's a major issue. It is a homeland security issue and one of the few things that are put in our Constitution, which is our defense and protection of the border as part of that. That's part of this proposal.

But all of us are being a little premature. And I am willing to let the president make his case. However, it's got to go to Congress. This could be something that he's doing for political pandering for Mexico, not for here. And it's get to go to Congress. If he doesn't put his weight behind it, it won't pass.

COLLINS: Marc Bernier, is this a homeland security issue?

BERNIER: I'm concerned about homeland security. I'm concerned about the fact that the board remembers so porous that you could get someone from one of these countries to simply walk across the border with one of these shoulder missile launchers. Borders are porous as it is, but, you know five days to six days before he's meeting with the Vicente Fox, the president rolls this out? Come on. Mostly this is a big win for Mexico.

ZOLLER: The problem isn't -- is that we're not giving credit whether they do make progress on the border. And it's a third rail kind of issue.

They are making progress on the border. They have a four-point plan where the first two points are working better. And they are going to continue doing that. But we've got to make sure that we're willing to give them credit when they do something right and that's the problem. And it is the third rail, because the anti-immigration people will never be happy and the pro-immigration people will never be happy.

BERNIER: But these people are here. This is unlawful. They're here illegally. What signal are we sending to law-abiding Americans when we have people here in an unlawful position and we allow them to stay? We have to show people we're serious about the law in this country.

ZOLLER: But you got to look at this like a crime. What kind of crime is this? Many times when we discover a crime five years later and people have behaved and not continued with this, then we let them have time off for good behavior. What kind of crime is this?

(CROSSTALK)

ZOLLER: The good thing that's coming out of this though is we're going to have this debate. Because what's happened for the last 15 years is we've had a wink and a nod and sweep it under the rug. The president is going to have a policy. He didn't have one in 2000 and there is not a single Democrat that has a policy.

COLLINS: Let me just ask this, guys. How long does it take to get a green card? I know there is some concern about it actually taking longer than the contemporary status lasts. And so therefore

ZOLLER: Well, that's true.

(CROSSTALK)

ZOLLER: The average wait is nine years in Mexico.

BERNIER: Yes, but you know what? We should be sending these people back. I know -- I don't mean to be repetitive. But if you're not going to stick by this, what laws do we have in this country?

ZOLLER: Mark, you bring up a great point though...

HAYNES: Martha, let him finish. Then we'll get your comment.

BERNIER: I mean, what this does, I think this is big for employers. They're saying they can't find people.

I mean I'm in central Florida where they end up going to fields and they're picking things like ferns. A lot of these people may be Hispanic or Mexican-Americans. They're saying they can't get Americans to do this. So if people here don't want the jobs, they have to go outside to get the job. That's a very convenient excuse to justify bringing this forth.

But the bottom line is they're here illegally. They don't want to deal with that because it's unpleasant. The president and the administration -- and I love the president, for what he's done for this country -- but they seem to be overly concerned with making everybody like us and make everybody happy, and he can't do that. Sometimes have you to take a tough stand for the American people.

HAYNES: Martha, would you agree that there are quite a few questions, as you said earlier, about this, in particular the issue Marc just brought up. You know, when will the guest worker status and how will it actually be enforced, if you will? Questions about whether or not Americans are really going to be offered these jobs first. How long will the job be advertised? How long about will it be left open to make sure that an American does not want it before an immigrant?

ZOLLER: The biggest question we have to ask and has to be answered by the Congress and by the president is how can we trust a federal government that couldn't enforce the laws up until this point to be able to do it?

That's going to be the sale job the president is going to have to have. We've had a lot of good programs in the past, but they haven't been enforced. The key is enforcement, and we need to make sure if we have laws on the books, we enforce them.

COLLINS: All right. At 2:45 we'll hear much more about this when the president speaks on this new policy. Until then, Martha Zoller and Marc Bernier, thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com