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Interview With Allan Lichtman
Aired January 14, 2004 - 14:40 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us to talk about presidents, space and the vision thing is Professor Allan Lichtman, American University who studies the presidents. Good to have you with us.
ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about parallels or lack thereof between what we're about to see and what happened with John F. Kennedy.
LICHTMAN: Well of course John F. Kennedy comes on and says I'm the young, vigorous leader. We're going to put aside those sleepy days of Eisenhower when the Russians beat us into space and we're going to beat the Russians.
This was all part of his new Cold War initiative, his new get the country moving. Remember what he also said? We're going to the moon and we're doing the other things, not because they're easy, but because they are hard.
Now you have George Bush coming along. His dad tried to get into space and failed. His dad didn't have the vision thing. So here is George Bush. He's not going -- he's now going to prove he has the vision thing that his dad didn't have.
He he's even going to top Kennedy. He's not just going to the moon, he's going to Mars. The problem is he doesn't want to make it hard. Where is he going to pay for it? Is he going to ask his rich buddies out there in corporate America to pony up and pay what could be a multibillion dollar price tag?
O'BRIEN: You're not a psychologist, we probably shouldn't get into the dad/son for a minute. But there are some differences in the way this has been presented between 1989 and now when the senior Bush announced his Mars proposal. NASA was still I think drunk on the Apollo success, or at least the hangover, and came back with something unrealistic. I don't think that's the case anymore for NASA. I think they understand the realities of the budget.
LICHTMAN: NASA is not going to hand George W. Bush a $400 billion price tag like they did with his dad. He's going to do it better.
What this president has been so brilliant at do something kind of putting things off. We'll raise the budget a little bit, a billion here and a billion there, and worry later about the big price tag. Plus, let's not forget, they're cutting back the space station and the shuttle program. Some of this is slight of hand. Where is the NASA (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going. And NASA is happy with someplace else to put the money.
O'BRIEN: Absent the mandate and imperative of the Cold War, it's going to be difficult to get much more money than is being proposed here. And what is at least on the table now is relatively modest.
LICHTMAN: What's on the table now won't do it. We needed that $5 trillion surplus that's has gone a glimmering and suddenly become a $500 million deficit.
The other thing is there are lots of other goals that might be more relevant to life here. What about cutting fossil fuels by 50 percent? Or doing something about global warming or fixing up the electric grid? All those questions are going to be asked by George's Bush's critics. And the American people, like they were with the Kennedy initiative, are very divided about it. A lot of folks say take care of the problems at home before slipping surly bonds and going off to Mars.
O'BRIEN: But I suppose if you picked any issue of this nature, transcendent issues, big picture issues, that it would really go to the core of what leadership is all about. There's always going to be the ankle biters whether talking about Lewis and Clark, or strategic defense initiative on the part of Ronald Reagan or Teddy Roosevelt and the Panama Canal and the Blue Water Navy, right? All of these transcend the moment and it's kind after calculated risk on the part of presidents.
LICHTMAN: It's not much after risk for this president, frankly. This is not going to beat him in 2004. What he's hoping is this not going to be like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) kind of a failed nightmare. But like the Panama Canal, like Lewis and Clark, something like the moon shot, something people will say in a generation or two from now, George Bush got this going, and look where we are today.
O'BRIEN: That's all about history.
LICHTMAN: In the end, presidents want to do two things, get re- elect and go down in those history books. George W. Bush is trying to do both now.
O'BRIEN: I know you're a historian but I'd like to you make a prediction. Is this a pivotal moment for his presidency?
LICHTMAN: I don't think it is a pivotal moment today because it's off to such a modest start. It's not going to hurt his re- election. It could be what they write about 30 years from now in the history books of George W. Bush.
O'BRIEN: The first draft of the first draft. Allan Lichtman, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 14, 2004 - 14:40 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us to talk about presidents, space and the vision thing is Professor Allan Lichtman, American University who studies the presidents. Good to have you with us.
ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about parallels or lack thereof between what we're about to see and what happened with John F. Kennedy.
LICHTMAN: Well of course John F. Kennedy comes on and says I'm the young, vigorous leader. We're going to put aside those sleepy days of Eisenhower when the Russians beat us into space and we're going to beat the Russians.
This was all part of his new Cold War initiative, his new get the country moving. Remember what he also said? We're going to the moon and we're doing the other things, not because they're easy, but because they are hard.
Now you have George Bush coming along. His dad tried to get into space and failed. His dad didn't have the vision thing. So here is George Bush. He's not going -- he's now going to prove he has the vision thing that his dad didn't have.
He he's even going to top Kennedy. He's not just going to the moon, he's going to Mars. The problem is he doesn't want to make it hard. Where is he going to pay for it? Is he going to ask his rich buddies out there in corporate America to pony up and pay what could be a multibillion dollar price tag?
O'BRIEN: You're not a psychologist, we probably shouldn't get into the dad/son for a minute. But there are some differences in the way this has been presented between 1989 and now when the senior Bush announced his Mars proposal. NASA was still I think drunk on the Apollo success, or at least the hangover, and came back with something unrealistic. I don't think that's the case anymore for NASA. I think they understand the realities of the budget.
LICHTMAN: NASA is not going to hand George W. Bush a $400 billion price tag like they did with his dad. He's going to do it better.
What this president has been so brilliant at do something kind of putting things off. We'll raise the budget a little bit, a billion here and a billion there, and worry later about the big price tag. Plus, let's not forget, they're cutting back the space station and the shuttle program. Some of this is slight of hand. Where is the NASA (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going. And NASA is happy with someplace else to put the money.
O'BRIEN: Absent the mandate and imperative of the Cold War, it's going to be difficult to get much more money than is being proposed here. And what is at least on the table now is relatively modest.
LICHTMAN: What's on the table now won't do it. We needed that $5 trillion surplus that's has gone a glimmering and suddenly become a $500 million deficit.
The other thing is there are lots of other goals that might be more relevant to life here. What about cutting fossil fuels by 50 percent? Or doing something about global warming or fixing up the electric grid? All those questions are going to be asked by George's Bush's critics. And the American people, like they were with the Kennedy initiative, are very divided about it. A lot of folks say take care of the problems at home before slipping surly bonds and going off to Mars.
O'BRIEN: But I suppose if you picked any issue of this nature, transcendent issues, big picture issues, that it would really go to the core of what leadership is all about. There's always going to be the ankle biters whether talking about Lewis and Clark, or strategic defense initiative on the part of Ronald Reagan or Teddy Roosevelt and the Panama Canal and the Blue Water Navy, right? All of these transcend the moment and it's kind after calculated risk on the part of presidents.
LICHTMAN: It's not much after risk for this president, frankly. This is not going to beat him in 2004. What he's hoping is this not going to be like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) kind of a failed nightmare. But like the Panama Canal, like Lewis and Clark, something like the moon shot, something people will say in a generation or two from now, George Bush got this going, and look where we are today.
O'BRIEN: That's all about history.
LICHTMAN: In the end, presidents want to do two things, get re- elect and go down in those history books. George W. Bush is trying to do both now.
O'BRIEN: I know you're a historian but I'd like to you make a prediction. Is this a pivotal moment for his presidency?
LICHTMAN: I don't think it is a pivotal moment today because it's off to such a modest start. It's not going to hurt his re- election. It could be what they write about 30 years from now in the history books of George W. Bush.
O'BRIEN: The first draft of the first draft. Allan Lichtman, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
