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When Does Swearing On TV Go Too Far?

Aired January 29, 2004 - 14:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Of course this raises some issues with strong sentiments on both sides. Some say the current FCC rules are, A, too lax, and, B, rarely enforced. Others say the FCC should be concerned with another "f" word -- and that is freedom.
Radio talk host Greg Knapp joining us from Dallas, and Amy Goodman, host of "Democracy Now," joining us from our New York bureau. Good to have you both with us.

All right, Amy, is the FCC going down the right path here?

AMY GOODMAN, "DEMOCRACY NOW": I think we have to overall look at what is on screen or sexually explicit. I think what drives a lot of it is commercial culture on television, girls in provocative positions, the violence on television is obscene.

We have to have a big discussion about what kids are seeing. It's not about simple expletives. That would be easy.

O'BRIEN: Just focusing on the seven or eight dirty words you think is missing the point in some sense?

GOODMAN: I think that doesn't deal with obscenity. The obscenities of violence and of girls being objectified on television has to do with commercial culture.

O'BRIEN: But when Bono says before a live television audience of millions that particular word, whatever the context, that probably shouldn't be going out over the air waves. Should it?

GOODMAN: That isn't the network's fault. That was live broadcast.

O'BRIEN: I'm not saying whose fault it is. But it shouldn't go out over the public airwaves, should it?

GOODMAN: Well, it doesn't have to do with the networks.

(CROSSTALK)

GREG KNAPP, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, it does have to do with the networks. This is a thing we use on talk radio, KALF in Dallas. And most radios do. It's called a delay. When you're going to do a live show like that, you put it in delay, the guy drops the "f" bomb, you bleep it out. It's very easy to do. They are responsible for it.

O'BRIEN: Isn't it too cute by a half to call it not obscene because it's not used in the context...

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: If you follow this, Miles, what they're saying is that you can say on TV "f-off," but you can't say two people were "f-ing." So how in the world does that make sense to anybody?

O'BRIEN: It's ludicrous on the face of it. Isn't it, Amy?

GOODMAN: I think what is of concern here is if networks or if smaller stations will be prosecuted for political reasons. For example, when you have a program about AIDS education, someone's education is someone else saying, Well, that is obscene and shouldn't be talked about. We're talking about issues that in education could save lives.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... how did we get from the eight dirty words into that?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: I realize that. But we're talking about eight words here. It's pretty much black and white. Isn't it? Aren't you worried about a slippery slope. Greg, what about the slippery slope? Let's talk about that.

KNAPP: Let's just say, first of all, you can talk about AIDS and breast cancer and everything that else you need to in an educational way without using the "f" bomb or "mf" or all these other words they're talking about banning.

Here is where I will agree with Amy. It's got to go beyond just these seven dirty words. It's got to go into, Hey, let's actually set some standards, and then make the broadcast networks -- not the cable ones but the broadcast ones that we have given the public airwaves to as a privilege, not a right, to say, Hey, there are certain standards when children are watching.

I've got two little girls. If I'm watching the Golden Globes -- which is rated G up in the corner before it starts, and they're dropping "f" bombs all over the place, I'm saying, Whoa. It's hard enough as a parent to try and protect your kids.

O'BRIEN: But there is this point. The reality is that for a child watching television at home, they don't know the difference between a cable outlet and a broadcast outlet if they're clicking through the channels. In a sense, a double standard exists. Doesn't it?

KNAPP: Miles, you can put parent controls on the cable box. You can put parent controls on a satellite dish. You know that those are channels that are going to get your kids into trouble.

But you think you're watching the broadcast networks, that that's relatively safe during prime tame. And it's not anymore. We've gone from not being able to say "pregnant" on TV, Miles, to being able to drop the "f" bomb. Does that make sense to anybody?

O'BRIEN: Amy? What do you say to that?

GOODMAN: I say that I look at the case for example of the great performance artist Sara Jones (ph). A station that she was sharing a poem on called "Your Evolution" was fined by the FCC because she was actually mocking, satirizing, criticizing the degradation of women by the corporate commercial culture.

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, when did this occur?

GOODMAN: Several years ago. And we have to watch who the FCC fines, who they try to shut up and who the FCC allows to continue to speak.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Are you saying that the FCC should just get out of deciding what should be decent or indecent? Or does there need to and better mechanism to ensure an appeal so that your concerns about free speech are taken care of?

GOODMAN: I think we have to look at what obscene is. I think it has to do with violence, I think it has to do -- also the FCC weighs other issues, like media monopolies and the consolidation of media. That's the other thing the FCC is taking on now. We have to look at both issues.

But communities have to be able to take control of their own media and be included in the discussion. We have to hear local voices in our media and that means we have to have greater decentralization of media in this country.

O'BRIEN: That's another issue. Isn't it?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... about now the issue of decency and how to regulate what exists right now. We may all agree that it should be decentralized. But right to the point right now, lot of people would say the horse is out of the barn on this in the first place. But nevertheless, shouldn't there be some way to regulate this in some way? Do you disagree, Amy?

GOODMAN: I think that we have to look at the broader context in which these discussions take place and we have to ensure that people are allowed to talk about sexuality, about sex education on television without also being shut down.

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: You're going way beyond what the FCC is talking about today.

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: Are you telling me that you can't talk about sexual issues without using the "f" word, without using curse words, you can't use the proper words?

GOODMAN: I am not.

KNAPP: No one is saying you have to ban the proper words for sexual intercourse and for like a Dr. Ruth show that has been on the radio many times. No problems.

GOODMAN: Greg, you're not right there. In the case of Sara Jones, she did not use an expletive but she was taking on the sexual -- the use of music against girls and women in this culture. And she was fined. The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) station she was speaking on was fined by the FCC.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That one I apologize for not knowing the full details on that. We'll just have to leave it at that.

Amy Goodman, the host of "Democracy Now" in New York, and Greg Knapp joining us from Dallas. Thank you both for being with us and at least getting a glimpse of this debate which we'll hear a lot more of in the coming weeks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 29, 2004 - 14:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Of course this raises some issues with strong sentiments on both sides. Some say the current FCC rules are, A, too lax, and, B, rarely enforced. Others say the FCC should be concerned with another "f" word -- and that is freedom.
Radio talk host Greg Knapp joining us from Dallas, and Amy Goodman, host of "Democracy Now," joining us from our New York bureau. Good to have you both with us.

All right, Amy, is the FCC going down the right path here?

AMY GOODMAN, "DEMOCRACY NOW": I think we have to overall look at what is on screen or sexually explicit. I think what drives a lot of it is commercial culture on television, girls in provocative positions, the violence on television is obscene.

We have to have a big discussion about what kids are seeing. It's not about simple expletives. That would be easy.

O'BRIEN: Just focusing on the seven or eight dirty words you think is missing the point in some sense?

GOODMAN: I think that doesn't deal with obscenity. The obscenities of violence and of girls being objectified on television has to do with commercial culture.

O'BRIEN: But when Bono says before a live television audience of millions that particular word, whatever the context, that probably shouldn't be going out over the air waves. Should it?

GOODMAN: That isn't the network's fault. That was live broadcast.

O'BRIEN: I'm not saying whose fault it is. But it shouldn't go out over the public airwaves, should it?

GOODMAN: Well, it doesn't have to do with the networks.

(CROSSTALK)

GREG KNAPP, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, it does have to do with the networks. This is a thing we use on talk radio, KALF in Dallas. And most radios do. It's called a delay. When you're going to do a live show like that, you put it in delay, the guy drops the "f" bomb, you bleep it out. It's very easy to do. They are responsible for it.

O'BRIEN: Isn't it too cute by a half to call it not obscene because it's not used in the context...

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: If you follow this, Miles, what they're saying is that you can say on TV "f-off," but you can't say two people were "f-ing." So how in the world does that make sense to anybody?

O'BRIEN: It's ludicrous on the face of it. Isn't it, Amy?

GOODMAN: I think what is of concern here is if networks or if smaller stations will be prosecuted for political reasons. For example, when you have a program about AIDS education, someone's education is someone else saying, Well, that is obscene and shouldn't be talked about. We're talking about issues that in education could save lives.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... how did we get from the eight dirty words into that?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: I realize that. But we're talking about eight words here. It's pretty much black and white. Isn't it? Aren't you worried about a slippery slope. Greg, what about the slippery slope? Let's talk about that.

KNAPP: Let's just say, first of all, you can talk about AIDS and breast cancer and everything that else you need to in an educational way without using the "f" bomb or "mf" or all these other words they're talking about banning.

Here is where I will agree with Amy. It's got to go beyond just these seven dirty words. It's got to go into, Hey, let's actually set some standards, and then make the broadcast networks -- not the cable ones but the broadcast ones that we have given the public airwaves to as a privilege, not a right, to say, Hey, there are certain standards when children are watching.

I've got two little girls. If I'm watching the Golden Globes -- which is rated G up in the corner before it starts, and they're dropping "f" bombs all over the place, I'm saying, Whoa. It's hard enough as a parent to try and protect your kids.

O'BRIEN: But there is this point. The reality is that for a child watching television at home, they don't know the difference between a cable outlet and a broadcast outlet if they're clicking through the channels. In a sense, a double standard exists. Doesn't it?

KNAPP: Miles, you can put parent controls on the cable box. You can put parent controls on a satellite dish. You know that those are channels that are going to get your kids into trouble.

But you think you're watching the broadcast networks, that that's relatively safe during prime tame. And it's not anymore. We've gone from not being able to say "pregnant" on TV, Miles, to being able to drop the "f" bomb. Does that make sense to anybody?

O'BRIEN: Amy? What do you say to that?

GOODMAN: I say that I look at the case for example of the great performance artist Sara Jones (ph). A station that she was sharing a poem on called "Your Evolution" was fined by the FCC because she was actually mocking, satirizing, criticizing the degradation of women by the corporate commercial culture.

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, when did this occur?

GOODMAN: Several years ago. And we have to watch who the FCC fines, who they try to shut up and who the FCC allows to continue to speak.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Are you saying that the FCC should just get out of deciding what should be decent or indecent? Or does there need to and better mechanism to ensure an appeal so that your concerns about free speech are taken care of?

GOODMAN: I think we have to look at what obscene is. I think it has to do with violence, I think it has to do -- also the FCC weighs other issues, like media monopolies and the consolidation of media. That's the other thing the FCC is taking on now. We have to look at both issues.

But communities have to be able to take control of their own media and be included in the discussion. We have to hear local voices in our media and that means we have to have greater decentralization of media in this country.

O'BRIEN: That's another issue. Isn't it?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ... about now the issue of decency and how to regulate what exists right now. We may all agree that it should be decentralized. But right to the point right now, lot of people would say the horse is out of the barn on this in the first place. But nevertheless, shouldn't there be some way to regulate this in some way? Do you disagree, Amy?

GOODMAN: I think that we have to look at the broader context in which these discussions take place and we have to ensure that people are allowed to talk about sexuality, about sex education on television without also being shut down.

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: You're going way beyond what the FCC is talking about today.

(CROSSTALK)

KNAPP: Are you telling me that you can't talk about sexual issues without using the "f" word, without using curse words, you can't use the proper words?

GOODMAN: I am not.

KNAPP: No one is saying you have to ban the proper words for sexual intercourse and for like a Dr. Ruth show that has been on the radio many times. No problems.

GOODMAN: Greg, you're not right there. In the case of Sara Jones, she did not use an expletive but she was taking on the sexual -- the use of music against girls and women in this culture. And she was fined. The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) station she was speaking on was fined by the FCC.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That one I apologize for not knowing the full details on that. We'll just have to leave it at that.

Amy Goodman, the host of "Democracy Now" in New York, and Greg Knapp joining us from Dallas. Thank you both for being with us and at least getting a glimpse of this debate which we'll hear a lot more of in the coming weeks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com